Fudoh's ode to old display technology

[Ed Oscuro]

100 pounds is too much, though. I might go for a 14 inch but for that picture posted earlier...but maybe I don't need composite input for this.

What do you guys think about the PVM-20L5 type monitors? The brochure is available here. The weight of the 20" model is only 68 pounds; that I could manage without complaint!

Something interesting I noticed -

BVM-14F1U - Differences from G series unknown to me.
BVM-14G5U / BVM-20G1U "A cost-effective color video monitor designed for broadcast and production applications [...] 800 lines of resolution"
BVM-14E1U "The Sony BVM14E5U is an evaluation grade color video monitor designed for extremely critical applications." "Super HR Trinitron assures a high resolution of 900TV lines."

Does anybody have instructions on getting a test pattern / hours of operation with these units? In questioning eBay sellers I'd like to know so I can get this extra information.

[kamiboy]

The PVM L5's are the plug and play all in one wonders of SONY's pro lineup.

It takes RGB/Component, S-Video and composite out of the box with no need for extra modules in addition to being multisync which means it'll accept anything from 240p to 480p, 720p and 1080i.

[ryu]

The PVM L5's are the plug and play all in one wonders of SONY's pro lineup.

It takes RGB/Component, S-Video and composite out of the box with no need for extra modules in addition to being multisync which means it'll accept anything from 240p to 480p, 720p and 1080i.

man that sounds good. if the thing has osd controls it might be better for me than the acclaimed bvm model. anyone know if the l5 monitors feature scanlines on 480p signals?

[Necronopticous]

Ed, for my BVM the test patterns are all located on the last few channels (90-99). The operation hours don't seem to matter all that much since these monitors are just built with such unbelievable quality. My BVM has 11,000 hours on it which actually seems fairly low. Some guys are rocking units with 100,000+ hours and the thing is still flexing. Anyway, from what people have posted, I'd call < 10,000 hours the low end of the curve, and > 100,000 hours the high end as at least some point of reference for you.

Also, you are having cold feet on the 14" because of the picture I snapped, but let me explain. My 14" is a PVM-14M2U--a great monitor but rather low end as far as these professional monitors go. First off, it only has 600 lines of tv res, where my BVM-20F1U is rocking 900. Second, the F1U has many, many more configuration options than the M2U, such as the 3 lines composite comb and composite aperture (sort of like sharpness), both of which were being used in full force in the picture that I took.

The point is that the 14" size itself isn't going to make the picture any worse. On the contrary, if you had the exact same monitor in both 14 and 20 inch, I'd say the 14 would actually probably look even more stunning since you have the same display quality over a smaller amount of physical space.

One more thing I will say in support of the 14" size is that although it sounds really small, I have to say that as long as you don't treat it like a living room television and try to sit on a couch with a coffee table in between you and the unit, you probably won't even notice the size. I typically sit on the floor in front of the monitor when I play, and I played all the way through Dragon Warrior I & II on my 14" without the size ever feeling like a problem or annoyance.

[NWrain]

Kamiboy, does the 20L5 really accept 480P? Most descriptions of that particular PVM don't mention that.

It sounds like a great monitor, and a lot of people are enjoying them. Unfortunately, the PVM20L5 seems to go for a lot more than a lot of BVM monitors. If you can find one for a price you are willing to pay for, it will be one flexible monitor to have.

[Ed Oscuro]

First off, it only has 600 lines of tv res, where my BVM-20F1U is rocking 900. Second, the F1U has many, many more configuration options than the M2U, such as the 3 lines composite comb and composite aperture (sort of like sharpness), both of which were being used in full force in the picture that I took.

Ah, that's good to know. The units I was looking at have 800 lines of resolution, I think, so they should be a lot closer to the 20F1U.

I'll have to mull prices and size over a bit...can't get over how light the 14" is, which might be handy. Who knows, maybe I'll end up with both styles.

Kamiboy, does the 20L5 really accept 480P? Most descriptions of that particular PVM don't mention that.

I'm not sure but maybe some kind of SDI input card. However, the ones I saw (like the BKM-120D) appear to be for SD material only.

[kamiboy]

Kamiboy, does the 20L5 really accept 480P? Most descriptions of that particular PVM don't mention that.

It sounds like a great monitor, and a lot of people are enjoying them. Unfortunately, the PVM20L5 seems to go for a lot more than a lot of BVM monitors. If you can one for a price you are willing to pay for, it will be one flexible monitor to have.

I won a 14L5 auction a few days back which should be with me in a week or two, then we'll know for sure. I'd be very dissapointed if it cannot though since 480p support was my only reason for getting it as I already have a 14L2.

Would be silly for it to be capable of displaying 720p but not 480p.

[Daytime Dreamer]

Sorry to hijack the thread but its for a good purpose.

I am giving away FOR FREE a Sony PVM 20M4E which is a bit tatty on the outside along with another 15 Broadcast Monitor

Collection only and London area. I paid this a good amount but I was not satisfied with the exterior plus I live in a shared house in London and there is NO room for anything I'm afraid (thing is larger than what I expected!)

So if you are in London and want a free PVM come and get it!

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=43937

[c0dehunter]

Hello all,
Thanks so much for the informative posts, I'm a bit confused, which CRT has the better images then, the Sony PVM-20L5 or The BVM-20F1U?

Seems like 20L5 is easier to setup and has support for more signal displays right out of the box.

However, The BVM-20F1 has a superior image.

Is this right?

Thanks in advance for your input.

[K-2]

All right I got everything working with all my fancy "new" cables on the BVM-20F1 and I must say the quality is astounding.

My only issue so far is with my Duo-RX: It's unmodified so I'm connecting it through composite and the picture is a bit junky and then flickers out to nothing. The same settings I'm using with the Duo on the BVM are the ones that work perfectly with my NES running in composite. Is this a well know issue with the Duo? Again please excuse my ignorance, not sure how to proceed from here.

Thanks and happy new year!

[Ed Oscuro]

which CRT has the better images then, the Sony PVM-20L5 or The BVM-20F1U?

Whichever one has more lines of TV resolution.

My bet's on the 20L5, based on its relatively recent manufacture (2003 on models I've seen) and a guess based on the comments here. But it's up to you. I'm not sure it actually allows more easy connections because you might need an SDI card to accept certain kinds of signals; I wouldn't take HD for granted (apologies if somebody has already answered for that; I didn't see it).

[fagin]

which CRT has the better images then, the Sony PVM-20L5 or The BVM-20F1U?

Whichever one has more lines of TV resolution.

That is a very sweeping statement and is only one of the reasons why the BVM's give a much better image than the PVM's (for instance).

[Ed Oscuro]

That's true, although the TV lines resolution seems to be a determining factor in the comparisons seen here. What else do BVMs offer compared to the 20L5? I see the 20F1U has 900 lines and the L5 is advertised at 800 (displaying 1080/60i and 720/60p).

[kamiboy]

BVM's prolly have better components and build quality if anything. Not really things that can be easily quantified.

I doubt SDI cards have any play in L5's signal capabilities. Most SDI cards I've seen exists for the sole purpose of giving monitors digital input capability which is useful in a studio environment but is pointless for playing games on them.

I'll have my L5 in hand by next week and then I can confirm things for sure, one way or the other.

[fagin]

Based on my personal experience with CRT's, tube grade and chassis type play a major part in overall quality.

Remember PVM are Professional graded, whereas the BVM are Broadcast graded.

[kamiboy]

Personally I feel once you venture into professional grade territory we are talking about fast diminishing returns. Looking at my L2 and remembering my previous 2030 I doubt any CRT will be able to trump either by a margin that is meaningful to me personally.

Though I've never had the luxury to do a side by side I am pretty confident that the gap between a PVM and BVM is neurosis territory, for me at least. So before you get caught up in the hype try and weigh in exactly how big a videophile you are. Unless you are a pro level hair splitter I doubt you could go wrong with anything from SONY's PVM/BVM line or any professional grade monitor for that matter.

[Ed Oscuro]

BVM's prolly have better components and build quality if anything. Not really things that can be easily quantified.

Unless it comes down to a 100 line difference of course. They all seem to use the same "SMTP-E" phosphors, I think some of the BKM's appeal was in the rackmount design. Incidentally the 20L5 is advertised as fitting into 9RU instead of 10 rack mount units.

I had another look at this brochure and I see that it mentions "loop through" for the input cards, but the ad copy also mentions the different types of input with cards. They also mention loop-through (passthrough) but I wonder if that's not just a standard extra for the cards, rather than the reason for buying the card. The brochure reads as if the person who wants to use an input type needs to get the SDI card, in which the loop through is a standard feature.

And I should also mention that I saw a 20F1U (I think) type monitor with its back half totally open and empty, with no input cards, and I couldn't see how anything could be connected to it unless you put a card in first. There looked like just some stray screw-down connector wires inside.

[c0dehunter]

OK,

Interestingly here in sunny California, some local sellers decided to sell their CRTs.

1) I would really appreciate it if you help me out to determine which one I should get, or if the price is reasonable.

$275 for a Sony PVM-14L5

$499 for a Sony BVM-20F1U

I'm torn between these two.

2) for connecting a PlayStation 1 and or an AES, do I need any special board or an additional component to either of these two monitors? I have already ordered the following cables:

RGB Scart to Sony PVM Monitor Converter (BNC)

And a PS1 SCART cable.

Thanks.




P.s. I already own a PVM-2030 and a 13" Commodore 1084-S.

Thanks.

[Ed Oscuro]

That BVM seems expensive to me...especially if it's a unit that's already had its full service life. I think many forumers have gotten their units for half that price.

[NWrain]

That BVM seems expensive to me too, but all the cheap BVMs on Ebay are gone.

[Ed Oscuro]

More are bound to show up.

[panzeroceania]

The second one's a 4:3 plasma set, the Pioneer PDP-V402EU (the EU version is capable of displaying PAL signals, while the US version is probably not). The V402 was Pioneer's third and last 4:3 plasma presentation display. It was made available around 2001 and was available until 2003 or 2004. Early V402 units still have the old Pioneer logo on front, while the later ones had the new one (unfortunately just a sticker). Price upon it's introduction was US$8,000 without any accessories. Just like the 20" BVMs the PDP-V402 can nowadays be picked up for around $150 to $250 depending on the cosmetical condition and the hours the units has on it. Sometimes the 40" PDPs are listed for pick-up only and can be found under $100.

A few years ago I had a PDP-V401 already, so I knew what to expect for 480p/VGA sources, but the one thing the 402 heavily improved upon is the handling of 15khz sources. The V402 offers two sets of RGB inputs, one BNC, one HD15. The BNC one accepts RGBHV and RGBs signals, while the HD15 one accepts RGBHV and RGsB signals. S-Video and composite ports are available as well. My V402 came with an optional down converter board which allows PC signals up to XGA. Those are downscaled to VGA then before fed into the panel. To connect a 15khz or 31khz component source, you have to add a color transcoder. For the test run I used a Burosch Con-1 converter, since it does 15khz and 31khz without the need to swap any cables. Note that no other external deinterlacers, scalers or video processors have been used with the PDP during this test run.

would the USA version be the "Pioneer PDP-V402EA" ?

http://elektrotanya.com/pioneer_pdpv402 ... nload.html

http://www.replacementremotes.com/PIONE ... QgodgBsABQ

do those look familiar?

[NWrain]

At first glance, it looks like it doesn't have speakers.

[panzeroceania]

yeah, from what I'm reading it has no speakers or tuner. As long as the display is the same, that's all that matters to me.

[kamiboy]

My 14L5 arrived this afternoon.

It accepts 480p, not that there was ever any doubt.

720p looks terrible, utterly useless, on-screen text looks almost illegible.

1080i fares a bit better but not by a large margin.

240p @ S-Video from an SNES performs just as on my 14L2 with slightly more pronounced scanlines.

I tested the latter as a side by side via loop through.

Personally for 240p and 480i content I like the L2 better just because of the knob colour/brightness/contrast adjustment controls since the units are otherwise equally matched in terms of PQ, even though the L5 "technically" has 200 more Lines of resolution.

[Fudoh]

And how's the 480p quality ?

[kamiboy]

Great.

[fagin]

You do realise the 720 and 1080 resolutions will only use 600 lines so your results are probably not surprising.

What sources have you used for the above resolutions?

[Fudoh]

But then again, would you rate the 480p quality any better (or different) than on one of the great PC CRTs available back in the days (thinking of Mitsubishi Diamondtron tubes for example) ?

[kamiboy]

@Fagin

I used a PS3 for testing 480p and up. 720p looks so bad that I think something is astray, might need some sort of service menu adjustment, but I cannot be arsed since I bought the L5 for 480p gaming.

@Fudoh

I only had crappy CRT displays growing up. Not that I can even remember that far back. I do have a 20" HP PC CRT over here now, but I lack the the requisite 6 RCA to BNC adapters to do a side by side. Going by memory I'd say the L5 is better because I remember the HP always lacked brightness.