Why modern anime sucks nowadays?

[Siren2011]

Most of your arguments that I seen come down to "Old stuff is better because it is! All new animu is pedoshit!". It's all really just preference, and at time you seem to have not watched a single show past 2000. It's a similar case with most people that go on about how great "X" media was in the past. They pick the best suff to go against stuff they hate, and other hoot and holler like some kind of deep statement was made. Shit's funny to me, is all.

Yeah, I would like to point out that even the best anime of the past decade or so (Chrono Crusade, Elfen Lied, Diebuster, Darker than Black, Full Metal Panic! Hellsing Remake, etc) all have characters who are less detailed than the ones from the best anime put out a decade before them. So we are on to something, here. It's not just a bunch of guys online blowing hot air.

[SockPuppetHyren]

Most of your arguments that I seen come down to "Old stuff is better because it is! All new animu is pedoshit!". It's all really just preference, and at time you seem to have not watched a single show past 2000. It's a similar case with most people that go on about how great "X" media was in the past. They pick the best suff to go against stuff they hate, and other hoot and holler like some kind of deep statement was made. Shit's funny to me, is all.

Yeah, I would like to point out that even the best anime of the past decade or so (Chrono Crusade, Elfen Lied, Diebuster, Darker than Black, Full Metal Panic! Hellsing Remake, etc) all have characters who are less detailed than the ones from the best anime put out a decade before them. So we are on to something, here. It's not just a bunch of guys online blowing hot air.

Elfen Lied? Really? REALLY?

What about Welcome to the NHK? Or Birdy the Mighty: Decode? Tatami Galaxy? TTGL? Dude, watch some more shows man! (Points for Diebuster, though)

And on your thing about detail, I don't care that much about detail. Sure, detail is nice, but when I'm watching a cartoon, I come to watch things move around, not to watch a slideshow with some pretty pictures. I'm pretty forgiving with anime in terms of that, but if it came between a hyper detailed show where nobody moves, or a minimal show with tons of movement, I'd likely choose the latter (Though a happy medium is always nice. And the actual story of the show comes into play as well.). If a character design get's the idea that the artist wants to the audience, and is attractive while doing so, then it's fine in my book. Shows like Diebuster, and DtB are plenty detailed for what they want to get across, as well as having great animation. What do you want, some random Ishikawa-style hatches all over them? (In before someone uses Do You Remember Love as a counter example).

Remember, anime is short for animation, after all.

Extra Edit: Now that I think about it, with the examples you chose, even some of the old classics weren't as detailed or well animated. If we're going for popular examples: SDF Macross was packed with bad art after the first set of episodes. Mobile Suit Gundam is considered nigh un-watchable by some people. Ninja scroll is an hour and a half long movie, While DtB is a 25 episode TV series. Urusei Yatsura isn't that detailed at all (And I LOVE Takahashi's art), and one of my favorite old shows (And by favorite, I mean I watched it recently and loved it), Ginga Nagareboshi Gin, looks like utter shit by today's standards. If anything, animation and aesthetics in anime have actually gotten better. Unless, of course your cherry picked the worst/not-to-you-preference series like the aforementioned RAKY SUTA. Which I will simply respond to with this.

[Siren2011]

Elfen Lied? Really? REALLY?

I am dying to hear why there is so much hate surrounding this show. Seriously, my curiosity is killing me. It has everything an anime should have. Superb plot development, incredible music that wipes the floor with even some live action hollywood blockbuster soundtracks (yes, even the cheesy ending theme is catchy, but I'm particularly speaking of "Lilium."), and a downright intriguing concept (the diclonius and their arms which vibrate so fast that they can cut through metal and human flesh. I never tire of hearing information about them as the series unfolded, and I'm still curious about how the manga told of this.). While the aesthetics certainly aren't the best in the world (characters look quite crude in certain angles), they suffice for telling the story in a convincing manner. Plus, I love it when a story throws morality aside and opens Pandora's box with merciless killing and failed "justice," which is rare to find in our excruciatingly boring, politically correct driven world.

Dude, watch some more shows man!

I know! I've got Birdy the Mighty on instant cue for Netflix! I'll watch it as soon as I'm done with Gunbuster.

And on your thing about detail, I don't care that much about detail. Sure, detail is nice, but when I'm watching a cartoon, I come to watch things move around, not to watch a slideshow with some pretty pictures. I'm pretty forgiving with anime in terms of that, if it came between a hyper detailed show where nobody moves, or a minimal show with tons over movement, I'd likely choose the latter (Though a happy medium is always nice).

Fair enough. If I had a choice in the matter, all of my favorite anime would be greatly detailed AND have fluid animation. But like you said, the best of us have to settle for compromise.

What do you want, some random Ishikawa-style hatches all over them?

I lol'ed. Diebuster was perhaps a bad example, because more detail on characters would have clashed with the scenery. It's a rare case because its characters manage to look great without added lines and shading. But yes, that would be nice for most anime, if not all of them. Aesthetics are important just as the story is, and I like said "hatches" a lot. I can't articulate why, but I just do prefer them over bland, porridge-faced dudes and dudettes. If that makes me a loser who asks too much of this medium, then so be it.

[SockPuppetHyren]

I am dying to hear why there is so much hate surrounding this show.

I don't hate the show, I just didn't find it that interesting. To be fair, I didn't watch the entire series, and I don't think it's too fair to call a show crap or not if you haven't seen all of it. But from what I saw, I just kind of shrugged my shoulders.. I read a while into the manga too, and it didn't catch me as much as I thought either. My response was less triggered by hate for the series itself. and more saying that it was one of the best shows of the decade, which I strongly disagree with. I mean, this is the decade where we had GiTS: SAC, Cromartie High School, Dai-Guard, FLCL, Birdy, Diebuster, Kaiba...and other great stuff. That's what really get's me about the "why does animu suck now?" topics (they're more common than you think). People make these arguments about how the whole medium became ass overnight, while ignoring all the awesome stuff we got over the past ten years. Then they repeatedly harp on the same type shows as if they're the only ones to exist. I didn't watch Lucky Star, I didn't plan to watch Lucky Star, and the only reason I know anything about it is because people won't stop bitching about it.

Okay I got a little mad there, but it's just so annoying...

Dude, watch some more shows man!

I know! I've got Birdy the Mighty on instant cue for Netflix! I'll watch it as soon as I'm done with Gunbuster.

I loved me some Gunbuster. Yeah, Noriko's development came really fast, but it was still fun.

What do you want, some random Ishikawa-style hatches all over them?

I lol'ed. Diebuster was perhaps a bad example, because more detail on characters would have clashed with the scenery. It's a rare case because its characters manage to look great without added lines and shading. But yes, that would be nice for most anime, if not all of them. Aesthetics are important just as the story is, and I like said "hatches" a lot. I can't articulate why, but I just do prefer them over bland, porridge-faced dudes and dudettes. If that makes me a loser who asks too much of this medium, then so be it.

You're not asking too much, I always find it nice to see some detail in a show, depending on the show of course. I think the cutesy style works for some comedies (I wouldn't be too keen on seeing a realistic Ika Musume, it would just be wrong), and more serious work should have the more detailed look. It's all about what the show is aiming for, getting mad at shows that are obviously not to your taste is a waste of time. It only serves to start threads like this, with a bunch of dudes crying about stuff they don't watch and spewing their personal opinion as if it were fact. I just wait for stuff that interests me, and check it out. I don't mind waiting a while for it, after all, I had to wait a while for good Cartoon Network shows to pop up again.

Also, read moar manga. Seriously, dat variety man.

[Siren2011]

I don't hate the show, I just didn't find it that interesting. To be fair, I didn't watch the entire series, and I don't think it's too fair to call a show crap or not if you haven't seen all of it. But from what I saw, I just kind of shrugged my shoulders.. I read a while into the manga too, and it didn't catch me as much as I thought either. My response was less triggered by hate for the series itself. and more saying that it was one of the best shows of the decade, which I strongly disagree with.

Speak of the devil. I'm reading the Elfen Lied manga as we speak, because I heard that it differed from the anime, which aroused my interest. In short: it's boring the shit out of me. Although there are plenty of parallels to the show, the pacing is all fucked up, and like most manga and fictional books, it requires that I piece some stuff together with my imagination. It's easier once I've seen the anime, but at the same time it looks so pathetically inferior. Lynn Okamoto can't draw for shit. No WONDER you weren't interested in the series. The manga is enough to turn anyone off (except the guy earlier in this thread). I urge you to finish the anime from start to finish (man, it's only 13 episodes long, so it's virtually free of fat and filler.), then make a valuable judgment for or against it. I'd love to hear your opinion of it, then. Anyway, I see absolutely no reason why it shouldn't be among the best anime in the past decade, while you have yet to provide any beyond "it doesn't interest me". Like I said, see the series, find legitimate reasons to hate/love the show and come back to me.

Yeah, Noriko's development came really fast, but it was still fun.

Well of course. It's a six episode series after all.

I think the cutesy style works for some comedies (I wouldn't be too keen on seeing a realistic Ika Musume, it would just be wrong), and more serious work should have the more detailed look. It's all about what the show is aiming for, getting mad at shows that are obviously not to your taste is a waste of time.

But that's criticism 101 for you. People condemn things that don't suit their tastes for various valid and invalid reasons, and people praise things for various valid and invalid reasons. It's one thing to say, "Man, these guys are really harsh toward certain art styles in anime," but it's another to say "You guys shouldn't be bitching about anything. Just pretend that all is fine in the world of anime and ignore all differences between the majority of stuff produced in the 80s and 90s, and the stuff released in recent years." No one is saying that the past was perfect and free of shit. Just watch Arc the Lad (1999) for fuck's sake. If that doesn't bore you to tears, I don't know what will.

Also, read moar manga. Seriously, dat variety man.

Sadly, it takes a lot for a manga or book to keep me interested, mainly because (particularly with the latter case) authors love to fill their books with superfluous crap to glue the best parts together, leaving me no other choice but to skip entire chapters worth of horse shit.

Which I will simply respond to with this.

LOL AGAIN! You kinda have a point...

Ninja scroll is an hour and a half long movie

What are you implying, exactly? Ninja Scroll had incredible art direction. You'll have to excuse me. I am very tired and am losing the ability to think at these hours.

[SockPuppetHyren]

Like I said, see the series, find legitimate reasons to hate/love the show and come back to me.

Alright alright, I'll give it a shot. I might end up with a pleasant surprise. Can't let me down anymore than the Negima manga (Which makes my head hurt).

But that's criticism 101 for you. People condemn things that don't suit their tastes for various valid and invalid reasons, and people praise things for various valid and invalid reasons. It's one thing to say, "Man, these guys are really harsh toward certain art styles in anime," but it's another to say "You guys shouldn't be bitching about anything. Just pretend that all is fine in the world of anime and ignore all differences between the majority of stuff produced in the 80s and 90s, and the stuff released in recent years." No one is saying that the past was perfect and free of shit. Just watch Arc the Lad (1999) for fuck's sake. If that doesn't bore you to tears, I don't know what will.

I'm not saying there's nothing to criticize about new shows that come out, because there most definitely is. Hell, I enjoyed Madoka, and I can rip that show five assholes with all the dumb shit it pulls. What my problem is is that in these threads, the person's favorite old shows are placed on the impervious pedestal of nostalgia, while anything newer is trashed and/or ignored in favor of whining about the flavor of the decade, while ignoring that past decades had fads that they latched onto and beat to death.

Then there's comparing high quality-OVAs and Movies from the older times, to TV series with a completely different focus and target audience, using that to declare that anime was better back then. Then there's bashing fans of current shows to and whining about fetishes, which is funny since the otaku were the main group that kept the anime industry afloat, just like how superhero fans are what's keeping the comic industry alive. If this thread were actually filled with criticism of specific shows, and not just a bunch of guys waxing on about nostalgia and making sweeping generalizations about the era they don't particularly care for (80-90s=MANLY, Everything else=GIRL PEDO SHIT), I wouldn't have a problem with it. Hell, it'd actually be interesting to see some guys pick sacred cows like Haruhi apart beyond "It sucks because it sucks! Why does anyone like this?". But alas, it's just the same arguments, same whining, same nostalgia worship, and people declaring anything outside of of their comfort zone shit. It just makes me giggle, really.

Sadly, it takes a lot for a manga or book to keep me interested, mainly because (particularly with the latter case) authors love to fill their books with superfluous crap to glue the best parts together, leaving me no other choice but to skip entire chapters worth of horse shit.

What the hell kind of manga are you reading? Get off that Shounen Jump bullshit! Read some Gunm, or Pluto, or Advancing Giants. ESPECIALLY Advancing Giants. That comic was kickass.

Ninja scroll is an hour and a half long movie

What are you implying, exactly? Ninja Scroll had incredible art direction. You'll have to excuse me. I am very tired and am losing the ability to think at these hours.[/quote]

I meant that Ninja Scroll, being a movie, would naturally have better animation and detail than a TV series, and the best looking anime back then were always OVAs or Movies. The fact that we have series like DtB that has such good animation on TV shows that anime has gone somewhere, artwise.

[Randorama]

If this thread were actually filled with criticism of specific shows, and not just a bunch of guys waxing on about nostalgia and making sweeping generalizations about the era they don't particularly care for (80-90s=MANLY, Everything else=GIRL PEDO SHIT) I wouldn't have a problem with it.

I do agree that some early posts fall squarely within this trend (and creepy homophobia, white supremacist shit, etc.), but what do you expect from a forum glorifying games past...?

However, I did complain that in modern animes there's almost no mention or more intellectually stimulating topics, an obvious (an excellent) exception being Planetes. I sincerely don't give a fuck about graphics and animation quality insofar as the plot is good and the themes try to have some thoughts behind them. I certainly don't miss Hokuto no Ken or Captain Tsubasa, I do miss Harlock, though, or even the Miyazaki of Mononoke no Hime, and of course Wings of Honnemaise.

I do think that one genre that naturally lent itself to this kind of content-driven anime (or manga, or whatever), sci-fi, has went quite downhill in recent times. I don't think one needs sci-fi for this: Ashita no Joe was in a sense a sports anime, Maison Ikkoku was more or less drama, and those showed a literary sensibility on the topics they touched (youth emargination, binge drinking and alienation in adults). I'd say that now authors are somehow scared to mention serious topics in series, or they do so very indirectly, which is really a shame. I adored Harakawa under the Bridge, but I was really hoping a more serious approach to the issue of Denpasan, to make one example.

Hell, it'd actually be interesting to see some guys pick sacred cows like Haruhi apart beyond "It sucks because it sucks! Why does anyone like this?". But alas, it's just the same arguments, same whining, same nostalgia worship, and people declaring anything outside of of their comfort zone shit. It just makes me giggle, really.

Haruhi has one "problem", the first series uses a non-linear narration in a bit too convoluted way. Here and there there are some non-sequitura in the narration, which could have been fixed with a little more attention on the narrative structure.

[Skykid]

80-90s=MANLY, Everything else=GIRLY PEDO SHIT

Well put.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Now that I think about it, with the examples you chose, even some of the old classics weren't as detailed or well animated.

Hell yeah. Tried to watch the first Patlabor OAV a couple of years ago and it was fuck all to write home about in just about every aspect, be it aesthetics or narration. People still fond of that fossil of a show choose wisely to keep it under the rose. I also watch plenty of stuff from the nineties and most of it oscillates around merely okay (Nuku Nuku, Trigun and whatnot).

If Lucky Star had chara designs that were anywhere near as good as the ones in Ah! Megamisama (and was as funny as Urusei Yatsura), I'd be sold on seeing the episodes. I don't care for fluid animation as much as I enjoy the designs themselves with some decent adult-oriented/smart humour, esp. when it comes to television series and direct-to-video productions.

I doubt many folks on here give a damn and I'm not even pimping Lucky Star. Would have steered away from that compulsive pic spam crusade of yours, but since you picked on a show sporting production values as above average now as they would have been in any earlier decade, I feel obliged to defend it for what it is as apparently some people are oblivious to the amount of hard work it takes to bring those sketchy characters to life the way Lucky Star does it.

Haruhi has one "problem", the first series uses a non-linear narration in a bit too convoluted way. Here and there there are some non-sequitura in the narration, which could have been fixed with a little more attention on the narrative structure.

You're supposed to watch it more than once, though. It's like Last Exile or RahXephon in this regard (except RahXephon has pretty bad pacing issues, equally grating no matter how many times you watch it).
The only thing I dislike about the first, unaltered Suzumiya Haruhi TV season is Taniguchi's animation in certain scenes (poor chap wouldn't be out of place in Akira). Convoluted narration is A okay with me.

[Randorama]

You're supposed to watch it more than once, though. It's like Last Exile or RahXephon in this regard (except RahXephon has pretty bad pacing issues, equally grating no matter how many times you watch it).

I don't. Convoluted narration is fine insofar as it is consistent, although the feeble-minded would perhaps attempt to complain about the non-linear plot, were they not feeble-minded ("duh Haruha sucks because...it sucks"). A golden and very basic rule is that an author has to be clear when presenting some work, rather than asking the reader to read more than once in order to overcome the author's lack of proper expository skills.

However, the "problems" with Haruha, I think, are that they created some inconsistencies here and there, probably as a consequence of adapting light novel material. Again, it is a "problem", in the sense that one can spot the inconsistencies, but the main plot is still relatively clear. I guess that they did not triple-check with the original author of the novels, when adapting the work.

Now, to be friendly and sympathetic with the retarded side of the thread, it also sucks because it lacks manly fights by Manly (or Parramatta) characters (say, Yakuza) in space against, uhm, communist aliens or something like that. Complicated time travel plots? It requires white supremacists in space!

[Obiwanshinobi]

A golden and very basic rule is that an author has to be clear when presenting some work, rather than asking the reader to read more than once in order to overcome the author's lack of proper expository skills.

I do not know such a rule, nor do I wish every author followed it. Keeping stuff hidden from beholder's eye first time around is not always a matter of insufficient skill. Some tales are told like that to make them equally enjoyable during subsequent readings. My favourite example is The Book of the New Sun by Gene Wolfe - wouldn't be as good for my money if everything about it was clearly exposed.

[Skykid]

A golden and very basic rule is that an author has to be clear when presenting some work, rather than asking the reader to read more than once in order to overcome the author's lack of proper expository skills.

I do not know such a rule, nor do I wish every author followed it. Keeping stuff hidden from beholder's eye first time around is not always a matter of insufficient skill.

It is when it's a boring as Last Exile. You watched that drivel twice did you?

[Obiwanshinobi]

I watched Last Exile AT LEAST twice, but the exact number would be tricky to establish due to the hectic circumstances of it all.

[Skykid]

I watched Last Exile AT LEAST twice, but the exact number would be tricky to establish due to the hectic circumstances of it all.

So Akira's animation is a mess.
The first 4 hours of Resident Evil 4 are boring.
Shadow of The Colossus is a disaster because its frame rate isn't smooth enough.
And watching Last Exile through more than twice is a productive way to spend the god given hours of your life.

Don't look now, but you have the worst taste in everything.

[Siren2011]

It is when it's a boring as Last Exile. You watched that drivel twice did you?

Now there's some common sense! I freakin' hated the first and second episodes of Last Exile. The two main characters had no qualities that made me like them, and there was no plot device planted to retain my interest.
The only thing that attracted me to the show in the first place was the incredible character art on the front of the box. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_Exile).
However, that illustration is misleading to those who think the show actually looks just like that. Plus, the fighter jet theme was either executed poorly, or I'm just bored with that subject matter in general. In either case, the first two episodes sucked balls, and I don't have the slightest desire to go any further in the series. Someone feel free to convince me otherwise if you believe I'm being short sighted.

Read some Gunm

^This man speaks the truth. I am ashamed to say that I have not seen past episode two of the anime, but I really need to check out both. Brace yourself for James Cameron's live action movie of the anime (he is apparently a huge fan of the show and its director, so this could have the potential to be decent. I know, I was surprised too when I heard about that.) Plus, the Gunsmith Cats manga looked pretty fucking cool when I picked it up at a local Half-Price Books and skimmed. I will have your suggestions in mind when I go back to Barnes And Noble.

OVAs

I don't get this. Aren't all anime series "OVAs"? I don't understand the distinction if there is one.

[Skykid]

It is when it's a boring as Last Exile. You watched that drivel twice did you?

Now there's some common sense! I freakin' hated the first and second episodes of Last Exile. The two main characters had no qualities that made me like them, and there was no plot device planted to retain my interest.
The only thing that attracted me to the show in the first place was the incredible character art on the front of the box. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_Exile).

Same, I'm a big Range Murata fan actually. He also did character designs for Blue Submarine 6, which was about as bad as Last Exile. I think I managed 3 episodes of LE, so one more than you. It doesn't get any better.

Anyone who thinks they're finding deep meaning beneath the surface of totally vapid moving wallpaper is exactly the type of person they keep making all these crap anime for.

[Ghegs]

OVAs

I don't get this. Aren't all anime series "OVAs"? I don't understand the distinction if there is one.

Basically, OVAs are direct-to-video as opposed to being shown on TV. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_video_animation

[xbl0x180]

If Lucky Star had chara designs that were anywhere near as good as the ones in Ah! Megamisama (and was as funny as Urusei Yatsura), I'd be sold on seeing the episodes. I don't care for fluid animation as much as I enjoy the designs themselves with some decent adult-oriented/smart humour, esp. when it comes to television series and direct-to-video productions.

I doubt many folks on here give a damn and I'm not even pimping Lucky Star. Would have steered away from that compulsive pic spam crusade of yours, but since you picked on a show sporting production values as above average now as they would have been in any earlier decade, I feel obliged to defend it for what it is as apparently some people are oblivious to the amount of hard work it takes to bring those sketchy characters to life the way Lucky Star does it.

You not only "defended it," but went insofar as to recommend this tripe to another anime fan who had just finished complaining about "moeblobs" in modern anime. You may not read it back to yourself, but you are indeed "pimping" (or "spamming") this animoe. Again, who cares if the animation movement is fluid when it's a show whose plot device centres around "little girls doing cute things" - just like a long line of other shows that came before, during, and after? Shows which may be [one of] the reason(s) why modern anime sucks nowadays. I'm sure Michael Bay and Uwe Boll can also lay the claim that some of their movies have "high production values." Are high production values inately good? Would the opposite also be true: if a show has a low production value, then it makes it a bad show? As far as "hard work" goes, a lot of things require hard work. I'm sure a Spice Girls album didn't just fall on a producer's lap. Does that make their music good? Here's one more red herring: if the art doesn't require a lot of "hard work" or looks effortless, does it make it any less good?

I watched Last Exile AT LEAST twice, but the exact number would be tricky to establish due to the hectic circumstances of it all.

So Akira's animation is a mess.
The first 4 hours of Resident Evil 4 are boring.
Shadow of The Colossus is a disaster because its frame rate isn't smooth enough.
And watching Last Exile through more than twice is a productive way to spend the god given hours of your life.

Don't look now, but you have the worst taste in everything.

Hahahah

[Siren2011]

He also did character designs for Blue Submarine 6, which was about as bad as Last Exile.

I am disappointed to hear that. I was looking forward to seeing Blue Sub, but now that you mention both of them in the same sentence, I remember from trailers that BSN6 had cheesy CG animation bits just like Last Exile did. The cynical side of me believes that there will be more parallels if I watch the show.

Hey Skykid, what did you think of the Appleseed remake with cell shading? Personally, I'm a huge fan of the aesthetic, and I've never seen the first one (I really, really need to, though!). I ask this because you said you liked Dominion Tank Police by Masamune Shirow (another which I still haven't seen. Urrrrggggh).

Anyone who thinks they're finding deep meaning beneath the surface of totally vapid moving wallpaper is exactly the type of person they keep making all these crap anime for.

Funny that you mention that. I have only been exposed to people who do this with games (and it irritates the fuck out of me), but never for movies or anime. Weird...

[SockPuppetHyren]

80-90s=MANLY, Everything else=GIRLY PEDO SHIT

Well put.

I know right? So MANLY! *snap snap*

I never really heard much about Last Exile, oddly enough. I know it used to come on TV, but I never got around to watching it, since Cromartie High School came on right before it and quenched my anime thirst for that day. Also, has anyone here watch "Here and there, Now and then"? I've heard about how dark and fucked up it is occasionally, but it's not really talked about much. I've only watched two episodes, but they were most definitely in-line with the "This is some fucked up shit" consensus I've heard so far. I need to find that series some time....

[Blackbird]

Just watch Deadman and Akagi already. Recent anime, manly men doing manly things, no moeblobs, problem solved.

Akagi

Deadman - Mildly NSFW

It's surprisingly hard to find anime footage on youtube, haha.

[Skykid]

He also did character designs for Blue Submarine 6, which was about as bad as Last Exile.

I am disappointed to hear that. I was looking forward to seeing Blue Sub, but now that you mention both of them in the same sentence, I remember from trailers that BSN6 had cheesy CG animation bits just like Last Exile did. The cynical side of me believes that there will be more parallels if I watch the show.

BS6 was one of the earliest Anime to merge CG sequences into it. Believe me, it shows. It looked bad then too.

Skykid, what did you think of the Appleseed remake with cell shading? Personally, I'm a huge fan of the aesthetic, and I've never seen the first one (I really, really need to, though!). I ask this because you said you liked Dominion Tank Police by Masamune Shirow (another which I still haven't seen. Urrrrggggh).

Didn't like it. All the Appleseed anime adaptations piss me off because they don't properly capture the manga, which is full of character and light heartedness. Feels wasted.
Dominion is okay - in contrast that's an Anime that does properly capture the vibe of Shirow's manga. It's not brilliant or anything, but definitely amusing and the character designs are nice. (EDIT: Doh, I just went looking on my DVD shelf for my Dominion - I was going to send it you, but it looks like I already gave it away in my last mad freebie shmups giveaway. Sorry.)

Anyone who thinks they're finding deep meaning beneath the surface of totally vapid moving wallpaper is exactly the type of person they keep making all these crap anime for.

Funny that you mention that. I have only been exposed to people who do this with games (and it irritates the fuck out of me), but never for movies or anime. Weird...

Dunno, I find games to be a lot more black and white a medium than movies or anime. You often get folks saying, "I know the game was shit, but that's partly why I liked it", and I can identify with that. You don't often get folks defending a game that's outright dire, it's usually just a cyclical debate over whether something is an 8 or 9 (and they're all wrong, cos it's invariably a 7.)

[Randorama]

I do not know such a rule nor do I wish every author followed it. Keeping stuff hidden from beholder's eye first time around is not always a matter of insufficient skill.

It's presupposition vs. assertion, something usually taught at 6th grade. "Don't presuppose your audience knows, tell them". Smart authors do not use plain methods to do so, however, so to the untrained eye it may look like they're "hiding meaning", or whatever. The reader should use some brains, too, and notice that the author did not hide anything, except perhaps putting it in plain sight. Plot inconsistencies are plot inconsistencies, not hidden meanings or other artfag stuff, though.

[Observer]

Dammit, is it wrong to think Iczer actually looks fucking awesome, Cthulhi Mythos references included? It has the typical 80's vibe I love and grew up with...

It's like that other video Udderdude linked. I just love so much the sci-fi from those years. Mechs, ships, weapons, they all used to look fucking great or at least badass.

Points for Cobra too. I also recall a super old anime that had a sci-fi setting and was dubbed in spanish along with Candy Candy and other stuff. I'm suffering a nostalgia attack.

[xbl0x180]

I love Hirano Toshihiro's designs. Kakinouchi Narumi is related to him (wife or daughter?) and they both worked on the oavs for Kyuuketsuki Miyu/"Vampire Miyu," which had a great music score by Kawai Kenji (I think).

Another 80s oav I dig was Yohko Leda, a sort of Fantasy-related story

[Observer]

heh, keep 'em coming (the '80s recommendations).

I mean, only back then they could've pulled of a Cthulhu meets manly mechs meets big boobs meets hentai tentacle raep and even a shmuppy touch. With lightsabers.

Ph´nglui mglw´nafh Cthulhu R´lyeh wgah´nagl fhtagn!

This thread also reminded me of the decline of western animation. A couple of weeks ago I was watching old Tom & Jerry, mostly Tex Avery stuff, Looney Tunes, hell, even those Goofy episodes made by Disney and, dammit, they all made me laugh. While they were technically for kids, so much adult stuff was thrown in. Even a show like The Three Stooges would be banned or censored in this so-called high tech 21st century. Instead of fucking awesome transformable mecha, Roy Fokkers and cigarette shaped bio-mechanical motherships... we got Twitter and Facebook. And loli. And fan service galore.

EDIT: ah, found one of the animes. I can't believe I almost forgot it. Arbegas! More crazy mecha and stuff. Typical 80's fare of course.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyzM3Je3vxw

Boy, I used to love this show so much, lol. In the spanish dub they even left the "gan gan gan" and "jin jin jin".

[xbl0x180]

I think the decline in Western animation may be more noticeable on cartoon series from major studios. However, the smaller, more independents (the guys who would've been featured in Spike And Mike's Sick And Twisted midnight cinema festivals) have a bigger podium/soapbox - big enough to have full-season programmes like Aeon Flux, South Park, Futurama, King Of The Hill, and far smaller productions the likes of 12 Oz. Mouse and The Squidbillies. Modern North American animation rawks my face off. It's one of those raer occasions when I actually look forward to another hilarious episode of Regular Show (these characters would be liable to play shoot-'em-ups on the their Sega Master System-look alike ).



It's a total kids' cartoon, but it's fun to watch.

[xbl0x180]

.EDIT: ah, found one of the animes. I can't believe I almost forgot it. Arbegas! More crazy mecha and stuff. Typical 80's fare of course.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyzM3Je3vxw

Boy, I used to love this show so much, lol. In the spanish dub they even left the "gan gan gan" and "jin jin jin".

HOLY F***ING S**T! I've had that song stuck in my head for about... 25 years! I never thought I'd hear it again! Hahahah. DUDE! THAT IS SO MOE!!!!~<3

Great flashback. I think I'm tripping balls right now...

[Obiwanshinobi]

I watched Last Exile AT LEAST twice, but the exact number would be tricky to establish due to the hectic circumstances of it all.

So Akira's animation is a mess.
The first 4 hours of Resident Evil 4 are boring.
Shadow of The Colossus is a disaster because its frame rate isn't smooth enough.
And watching Last Exile through more than twice is a productive way to spend the god given hours of your life.

Don't look now, but you have the worst taste in everything.

I like my internet people trying hard. Carry on.

You not only "defended it," but went insofar as to recommended this tripe to another anime fan who had just finished complaining about "moeblobs" in modern anime.

Where did I recommend Lucky Star to anybody? The only show a bit like it I recommended was Renkin San-kyuu Magical? Pokaan.

Plot inconsistencies are plot inconsistencies, not hidden meanings or other artfag stuff, though.

What plot inconsistencies? Use spoiler tags or small font.
Besides, I wonder where you old chums pull the words like "meaning" from in times like this. "Hidden stuff" may be not "meaning", but some details of depicted world, or the sort of background occurences Haruhi is choke-full of that don't appear to carry much meaning but are just there for your viewing pleasure, nigh on impossible to spot first time around.

Dammit, is it wrong to think Iczer actually looks fucking awesome, Cthulhi Mythos references included? It has the typical 80's vibe I love and grew up with...

The splatter looks okay, but everything else... I suffered through the all Zeta Gundam TV episodes 'cause the drawings were eighties-pretty, but couldn't be bothered watching two remaining Iczer episodes after the first one. "Character development" in that OAV was cringe-inducing beyond Gundam (and I'm usually better off with those shoujo ai archetypes than military blockheads).

[Skykid]

I watched Last Exile AT LEAST twice, but the exact number would be tricky to establish due to the hectic circumstances of it all.

So Akira's animation is a mess.
The first 4 hours of Resident Evil 4 are boring.
Shadow of The Colossus is a disaster because its frame rate isn't smooth enough.
And watching Last Exile through more than twice is a productive way to spend the god given hours of your life.

Don't look now, but you have the worst taste in everything.

I like my internet people trying hard. Carry on.

Who's trying hard? You make it so easy.