Shmup stinkers

[IseeThings]

I thought the original was called joint strike my mistake. Are you referring to console port of the game? I know a lot of people like it but I think Zaxxon is terrible.

Ya know just throw Ikaruga up there anyway it gets too much undeserved love. If people feel bad about it being up there they can just read any given mainstream shmup article sucking it's dick.

Zaxxon isn't terrible..

Zaxxon's Motherbase 2000 for the 32x on the other hand... that is an abomination

[Drum]

Poor Gremlin, to have Zaxxon as your last title when you did so many other great games. What happened to them, anyway? Did Sega dissolve them or what?

[EinhanderZwei]

Edit: Limbrooke, Ed Obscuro,Zebra Airforce, Drago Force and me are the only people that have played enough games to say whats shit or not. Yeah play more then one credit of Final Soldeir then we'll talk.

[raigon50]

S.T.G. Strike Gunner isn't to bad. It feels really bland at first, but the difficult quickly rises, making you realize you have to strategize on what weapons to use on which stage.

And I have tell you that Blast Works is more based on making shmups, not so much playing them, so it doesn't quite fit in. It would be like taking Daezamon and judging it by it's sample games.

[kemical]

Get Curse off that list at once!
it is much better than that XDR shit. It isn't the best shooter action and is a bit easy, but the visuals are strange enough (heavily inspired by R-Type).. I also felt it got a bit crazy in the later levels, I enjoyed it enough to create a high score thread a couple years ago.

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 06&start=0

[Kollision]

I guess the only evident flaw in Curse is the choppy scrolling, but other than that it's indeed superior to XDR.
I especially dig the soundtrack!

[Dale]

The collision in Curse is wonky but yeah not a terrible game.

[Skykid]

Okay, Curse off then, and Blast Works too (I didn't realise it was a game maker, that's just a silly entry whoever came up with that!)

S.T.G Strike Gunner not sure yet, lets wait and hear if there are any other disputes. Looks kinda dull.

[nZero]

S.T.G Strike Gunner not sure yet, lets wait and hear if there are any other disputes. Looks kinda dull.

IMO it deserves to be on the list. This is the game where a forest is easily mistaken for space.

[Skykid]

S.T.G Strike Gunner not sure yet, lets wait and hear if there are any other disputes. Looks kinda dull.

IMO it deserves to be on the list.

Cool, good enough for me.

This might go down like a lead balloon folks, so feel free to dive in and veto this, but... controversially... I always thought Axelay was pretty overrated.

The 2D side on sections are fine for what they are, although not particularly incredible - but the 3D sections just seem to suck so hard, no matter how many times I try to get to grips with them. When you get over how cool that spherical scrolling effect looks and realise how crap the collision detection is and the size of the ship hitbox, and how useless the weapons are... well, it seems like a bit of a stinker.

Tell me otherwise and I might revisit it.

[BulletMagnet]

This might go down like a lead balloon folks, so feel free to dive in and veto this, but... controversially... I always thought Axelay was pretty overrated.

Overrated I can agree with, but not to the point of labeling it a stinker.

[stryc9]

Axelay is certainly an overated title with SNES gamers wowed by the Mode 7 and (admittedly) fantastic sound. But the gameplay leaves a bit to be desired and people that weren't blinded by gushing magazine features and reviews knew this back in the day even. It was an OK shooter experience bouyed up by flashy graphics/bosses and impressive soundtrack, which I suspect is what kept it out of trouble. But it is no stinker.

[EinhanderZwei]

Has anybody mentioned Sengoku Cannon and DemonStar? The former is a broken into shit PSP shmup, while such masterpieces as Darius Burst are available on it, and the latter is just a disgrace to PC shmups that makes Raptor and Tyrian look like DoDonPachi HD

UPD: Most of the indie PC shmups that came around '98 can be classified as shit, actually...

[Skykid]

Thanks for the Axelay info. Glad to see it's not just me then, but I concur, stinker would be taking it too far.

@ EinhanderZwei: Yes, I heard Sengoku Cannon was outrageously bad (never heard of DemonStar?)
Anyone else sampled these?

[Limbrooke]

UPD: Most of the indie PC shmups that came around '98 can be classified as shit, actually...

Define around 1998, as Kamui came out in 1999 and that's far removed from shit.

Sengoku Cannon is touted as being mediocre although I've yet to try it so the jury hasn't deliberated.

[Skykid]

Just watched the first three stages. It is bland and very repetitive, and ridiculously easy considering you can bullet cancel what few bullets there are. Stg3 is a little busier, but there's no real variety in the enemies.
It does have gorgeous art and Koyori's phat tats tho.

You judge:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-E15YVaiEw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRLroGnG ... re=related

[EinhanderZwei]

UPD: Most of the indie PC shmups that came around '98 can be classified as shit, actually...

Define around 1998, as Kamui came out in 1999 and that's far removed from shit.

OK, let's narrow it to indie shmups made in USA/Russia/Ukraine (another example: Devastator)

Sengoku Cannon is touted as being mediocre although I've yet to try it so the jury hasn't deliberated.

Bland backgrounds, repetitive levels, tiny sprites and static bosses are what kills it... character designs are not bad though, but the game is still a piece of crap.

[Skykid]

UPD: Most of the indie PC shmups that came around '98 can be classified as shit, actually...

Define around 1998, as Kamui came out in 1999 and that's far removed from shit.

OK, let's narrow it to indie shmups made in USA/Russia/Ukraine (another example: Devastator)

Sengoku Cannon is touted as being mediocre although I've yet to try it so the jury hasn't deliberated.

Bland backgrounds, repetitive levels, tiny sprites and static bosses are what kills it... character designs are not bad though, but the game is still a piece of crap.

Fair deal, added.

[dunpeal2064]

S.T.G Strike Gunner not sure yet, lets wait and hear if there are any other disputes. Looks kinda dull.

IMO it deserves to be on the list.

Cool, good enough for me.

This might go down like a lead balloon folks, so feel free to dive in and veto this, but... controversially... I always thought Axelay was pretty overrated.

The 2D side on sections are fine for what they are, although not particularly incredible - but the 3D sections just seem to suck so hard, no matter how many times I try to get to grips with them. When you get over how cool that spherical scrolling effect looks and realise how crap the collision detection is and the size of the ship hitbox, and how useless the weapons are... well, it seems like a bit of a stinker.

Tell me otherwise and I might revisit it.

This is a game where I can totally understand people not liking it, but I really like it, and would be sad to see it on a stinker list.

The weirdness of the levels aside, I like how you lose weapons when hit, I think graphically (other than the crazy mirror effect) it is great, and the soundtrack is rockin. I also enjoy the ability to switch weapons in between stages as they are unlocked

... not my favorite game ever, but I enjoy it on the same level as I do U.N. Squadron, if not more (actually, I like Axelay much more than U.N. Squad, but they feel similar enough to compare, I guess)

[Skykid]

You know, watching the vid, I'm struggling to see anything massively wrong with it - however, he is playing on difficulty level 4 (which I assume is higher than default?) which may make it look more interesting.

Any other SNES Strike Gunner defenders?

[rocketassistedkea]

Gaddamn. Goddamnit...GRRR.

I was looking through the reviews on here [again], trying to find something to job my memory, so I could remember what one of the VERY BEST shmups I've ever played was called...found it; Twin Eagle 2 by Seta.

And what do I find? That's it's rated a stinker!
Firstly, before I came across that...I found it had never been emulated/ported at all;0( Maybe because it was ahead of it's time; with some of the best explosions I've ever seen, gunfire which stops halfway up the screen [and seems to slow the screen down, too], which is blocked by most buildings/huts [which all get shredded anyway, the destruction in this game is simply nuts]; and the only shmup I remember, where you gun down hordes of little men running from their ruined cover. This game absolutely KICKED-ARSE. It was also very hard [a good thing]; and I don't believe I ever saw past the mid-point in the third level [as it was an expensive game to play at the time, and I didn't believe in throwing that kind of money at a very hard, but compulsively playable game]. Perfect for a home conversion though;0) In fact, I'll go as far as to say...it's hands-down one of the best shmups I've ever played...for years I've tried to track it down, but it was a long time ago, you know? It had a look like no other, prerendered, gorgeously animated environments-almost like paintings [which put Cave to shame, many many years later], increadible explosions, and a feeling of being down-in-the-mud, which I've never felt with another shmup since. Gameplay [the range of your guns, and the way buidings/huts absorbed your fire] forced you up the screen...it was tight and beautiful. Even today; I reckon It'd give any Cave game, a run for it's money. And yes...it was manic, too;0)

Am I, perhaps; seeing it through rose-tinted glasses? No way. I've been a shmup fan since around 1980, and have randomly found-and played-the PCB a few times since, over the years. Never ceases to astound me. Ketsui somehow got a reputation as a classic, even though few have actually played it. Here's one that few have played, and somehow it's been distorted the other way-as a stinker. I can't even find a review on the 'net...I've played it, anyone who's likewise played it [and likes their shmups HARD]; should also rate it timeless classic, with tons of eye-candy for the aesthetically hard-to-please. It's a game you simply don't forget.

If Gradius/R-type/UN Squadron/DOJ and the like deserve to be classics...then so does this, too. In fact, if I ever managed to play it again [only by tracking down a PCB board]; I'd bet it wouldn't have dated one bit, unlike many other classics. Maybe it was simply too ahead of it's time [even the PCB had LOTS of slowdown, which I loved anyway, almost felt like it was deliberate, as it suited the gameplay so well, spending as much time as you did in the upper screen...what with explosions covering half the screen most of the time-with some of the slow grace of the explosions in the star wars film, a sense that your cannon shells are thudding, often in slow-motion, into the soldiers running away from you, or into the mud around them]...no home machine at the time could handle it [maybe the Saturn, maybe...a few years down the line]; and it simply got forgotten in the interim. Who knows. For 1994; seems like the PCB was some kind of supercomputer...and even IT could barely handle what was going on. I like slowdown in games; shows [or used to] that the programmers were'nt lazy; and were really pushing the hardware. The slowdown also never felt out-of-place, rather; enhancing the down-in-the-dirt, in-your-face feeling.

Classic anyway, one of the best shmups any seasoned fan will ever enjoy, and like nothing else I've ever played, too. It certainly isn't poos. Grr. If you can find a PCB for a good price [hell, I'm a poor-struggling artist...and even IM going to have a wee look, though I'm sure I could never afford it]...you won't regret it.

Z

[Skykid]

Gaddamn. Goddamnit...GRRR.

I was looking through the reviews on here [again], trying to find something to job my memory, so I could remember what one of the VERY BEST shmups I've ever played was called...found it; Twin Eagle 2 by Seta.

And what do I find? That's it's rated a stinker!
Firstly, before I came across that...I found it had never been emulated/ported at all;0( Maybe because it was ahead of it's time; with some of the best explosions I've ever seen, gunfire which stops halfway up the screen [and seems to slow the screen down, too], which is blocked by most buildings/huts [which all get shredded anyway, the destruction in this game is simply nuts]; and the only shmup I remember, where you gun down hordes of little men running from their ruined cover. This game absolutely KICKED-ARSE. It was also very hard [a good thing]; and I don't believe I ever saw past the mid-point in the third level [as it was an expensive game to play at the time, and I didn't believe in throwing that kind of money at a very hard, but compulsively playable game]. Perfect for a home conversion though;0) In fact, I'll go as far as to say...it's hands-down one of the best shmups I've ever played...for years I've tried to track it down, but it was a long time ago, you know? It had a look like no other, prerendered, gorgeously animated environments-almost like paintings [which put Cave to shame, many many years later], increadible explosions, and a feeling of being down-in-the-mud, which I've never felt with another shmup since. Gameplay [the range of your guns, and the way buidings/huts absorbed your fire] forced you up the screen...it was tight and beautiful. Even today; I reckon It'd give any Cave game, a run for it's money. And yes...it was manic, too;0)

Am I, perhaps; seeing it through rose-tinted glasses? No way. I've been a shmup fan since around 1980, and have randomly found-and played-the PCB a few times since, over the years. Never ceases to astound me. Ketsui somehow got a reputation as a classic, even though few have actually played it. Here's one that few have played, and somehow it's been distorted the other way-as a stinker. I can't even find a review on the 'net...I've played it, anyone who's likewise played it [and likes their shmups HARD]; should also rate it timeless classic, with tons of eye-candy for the aesthetically hard-to-please. It's a game you simply don't forget.

If Gradius/R-type/UN Squadron/DOJ and the like deserve to be classics...then so does this, too. In fact, if I ever managed to play it again [only by tracking down a PCB board]; I'd bet it wouldn't have dated one bit, unlike many other classics. Maybe it was simply too ahead of it's time [even the PCB had LOTS of slowdown, which I loved anyway, almost felt like it was deliberate, as it suited the gameplay so well, spending as much time as you did in the upper screen...what with explosions covering half the screen most of the time-with some of the slow grace of the explosions in the star wars film, a sense that your cannon shells are thudding, often in slow-motion, into the soldiers running away from you, or into the mud around them]...no home machine at the time could handle it [maybe the Saturn, maybe...a few years down the line]; and it simply got forgotten in the interim. Who knows. For 1994; seems like the PCB was some kind of supercomputer...and even IT could barely handle what was going on. I like slowdown in games; shows [or used to] that the programmers were'nt lazy; and were really pushing the hardware. The slowdown also never felt out-of-place, rather; enhancing the down-in-the-dirt, in-your-face feeling.

Classic anyway, one of the best shmups any seasoned fan will ever enjoy, and like nothing else I've ever played, too. It certainly isn't poos. Grr. If you can find a PCB for a good price [hell, I'm a poor-struggling artist...and even IM going to have a wee look, though I'm sure I could never afford it]...you won't regret it.

Z

Chill out man, I can solve this (maybe! )
Your input is what makes the list, so thanks for sharing the thoughts. I had a bit of confusion as when I clicked the Twin Eagle 2 link I found a vid for Visco's Twin Eagle on the NES...! My bad.
I have had a look at Twin Eagle 2 on arcade and it does indeed look pretty damn cool. However nimitz did cite it as a stinker on the first page and I think you're the first to dispute it. I'll download it on mame and take a look shortly, back in a bit.

[Skykid]

LOL, this game has the most amusing soundbytes ever! The "I'm comin' apart" death cry might actually top Cyber Lip's "I'm a goner!"

Even the credit sound is hilarious. The whole thing is off the wall nuts. I absolutely love the intermission screens with the news reporters. Their 'Progress Report' is always just a screen of shit you just left on fire! Ha ha!

In all honesty, I think you may have some nostalgia swaying you on it - it's not the best shmup I've played. The chopper is too big and there aren't much in the way of bullet patterns - but it's definitely got character. I'm going to spend some time playing it tomorrow.

I don't think it's a stinker though, you're right, taking it off the list.

[Zebra Airforce]

Pre-disputing the following games:

[25] [Super Space Fortress Macross 2]
[20] [GunNail]
[20] [Cyvern]
[15] [Plus Alpha]
[15] [Break Thru]
[15] [Blazeon]
[15] [Gradius III (arcade)]
[15] [Strikers 1999]
[15] [P-47 Aces]
[3] [Scooter Shooter]
[3] [Scion]
[3] [Ark Area]
[3] [Savage Bees]
[3] [Terra Force]
[6] [Pistol Daimyo no Bouken]
[2] [Blast Off]
[2] [Black Heart]
[10] [Astro Flash]
[2] [Air Duel]
[11] [Vanguard]
[3] [Wonder Planet]
[4] [Sky Adventure]
[5] [Noboranka]

Also Sky Smasher and Sky Adventure.

[dunpeal2064]

I actually like Strike Gunner STG too. Cool choice of weapons for the time, and not many shooters of the era had 2p co-op.

[rocketassistedkea]

Heya...forgive the near double post [or whatever you call it]; I'm in a different time-zone, is all.

Hey, I'm not mad, no fear...it was great remembering it, so I appreciated it coming to light. I'm glad someone's trying to make a list of this kind, anyway. Can't be easy.
Took me years to remember what the hell it was called...I recognized the funni name of the company Seta that made it, before the actual title of the game.

Rose tinted glasses? Probably, a little. I don't remember any weapon variation [but then DOJ only really has 2], and you chopper WAS too big. Nevertheless...most fun I've had with a chopper game [though I haven't played Ketsui].

I can understand there might be doubters, and I couldn't find a written review, so...here's a comparison of three games from my memory, that all came out within a yr or two of each other; Raiden 2, XEXEX and Twin Eagle 2. All seen through the rose-tints of time, like the days of our lives. Or somesuch.

Gameplay; all are very playable [hence similar]. R2 and TW2, are more twitch-based. If you had all three lined up; you'd spend a lot of time on each. Can't fairly compare them in great depth...as it's simply been too long. But they're all fun. XEXEX was/is my favourite, r2 was pretty generic...but perfectly honed, and TE2 had a unique feel, something you never, ever forget.


Innovation; XEXEX scores highest, even though it borrows a lot from R-Type, Gradius, UN Squadron e.t.c.
R2 has a snazzy purple magnetically charged lasersnakething[tm] [I'm guessing it's similar tech to the 'Hunter' in Thunderforce, crossed with a snake, see]...and that's about it.
TE2 may only have one main weapon [and a slowdown inducing bomb, which doesn't clear the screen, if I remember-just 'punches' a hole in front of you]...but it powers up quickly; and the 'in-your-face/down-in-the-mud' feeling is quite unique, as is having to blast your way through all the scenery, to get to the guys you need to shoot. Quite a unique 'feel'.

Graphics; XEXEX on top, due to style/art/backgrounds e.t.c, plus nice 3d debrie.
R2 has the best secondary explosions [debrie], guess what...TE2 has the best primary explosions, and possibly even more interaction with the background than R2...as it all gets in the way of your guns, hedges and all....and simply HAS to go! Pre-rendered loveliness everywhere.

Sound: Good but generic explosions for R2 [can't remember the music for any of them, sorry].
Nice alien crystalline impact effects, zappy lasers and Gigeresque xenomorph screams [from your 'force'] in X.
The sound of constant streams of cannon and machinegun fire impacting cover, wood, men and mud, laid over a canvas of near-constant explosions in TE2...this game's an orgy of violence, and the sound reflects that. I can still hear it in my head, even now. Considering it's eaten into my brain [and I haven't seen it in 8 years]; it must be pretty good, and reflect the quality of the game overall. Quality survives the test of time, and all. The only test that really matters.

What else?
Well...a conclusion, I guess. All based on memory, mind you;0].
If TE2 was crap...I would have clicked to the fact, each time I found the arcade board again, as I've played it for at least three periods of time, seperated by probably 2 or three years in each instance.
What's happened I think...is that most people have never played it [not their fault], it's understandably been largely forgotten and/or slagged off-like a dead person, unable to defend him/itself [possibly through being confused with the first game] and,er (what a goulish analogy [and yes...I overdo the paren{the}...sis])....;0)]....I think that's probably all there is to it;0)
And, oh yeah; WORST GRAMMER EVER. My bad.

Regards.

Z

[Rob]

[Drum]

Twin Eagle II is an awesome mix of awesome and oh dear. That makes it awesomer. Had not played it before, now I am glad I did. Thankyou!

Re: TEII vs XXX:
Xexex is '91, Twin Eagle II is '94 so not reallllly in the same time frame. Also, Xexex has pretty bad graphics. TEII's are way cooler on account of being hilarious, Xexex's are messsssssy (though sometimes they are awesome and make you wonder why the rest of the game isn't that pretty, or even as pretty as the games it ripped off: R-Type/X-Multiply). Twin Eagle II has some sort of combo system or something in '94, which probably makes it better than Donpachi or whatever it's called. You can even discover crab things, which is clearly what Cave was thinking of with those bees.

EDIT: Holy shit, Twin Eagle I is even better. Wailing guitar on coin insert, exploding bushes. Goddamn.

EDIT 2: Who is Joe's brother? What happened to him?

[Drum]

Oh yeah: Am thinking about making a series of hi score threads based roughly on the list in the OP. Is anybody interested?

[BPzeBanshee]