Sin & Punishment 2

[Rupert H]

Skykid: I just got around to finishing this after our discussion the other day. What can I say? It's mind-blowingly exceptional. I can't believe how creative some of the bosses are. Truly an incredible experience.

[WarpZone]

Well, a simpler option would just be to divide the game into three scoring areas. I forget how many stages there are overall, 9? Anyways, stages 1-3, 4-6, 7-9 etc. they could have just split up the leaderboards that way and spared everyone 3 hour straight playthroughs.

... but they did do this. Not sure if you noticed, but stage select has leaderboards for each stage. They broke the game into seven big, self-contained stages that average about 20 minutes, around the length one would expect a typical arcade shooter experience to be.

The designers didn't really gear the game for a full 2-3 hour playthrough in the first place. Nothing carries over from one stage to the next. I think they just tossed in the ALL leaderboard for the heck of it, because some players would want to do that no matter how many stages they made. Last I checked there is much more competition on the individual stage leaderboards.

[linko9]

And, somewhat incredibly, this seems to be getting a lot of praise in the mainstream press. Case in point:

http://au.wii.ign.com/articles/108/1088063p1.html

I know Treasure is in general more popular than other "Arcade-style game" developers, but it's still nice to see this game getting such positive attention from mainstream outlets; let's hope it helps sales.

[adversity1]

Well, a simpler option would just be to divide the game into three scoring areas. I forget how many stages there are overall, 9? Anyways, stages 1-3, 4-6, 7-9 etc. they could have just split up the leaderboards that way and spared everyone 3 hour straight playthroughs.

... but they did do this. Not sure if you noticed, but stage select has leaderboards for each stage. They broke the game into seven big, self-contained stages that average about 20 minutes, around the length one would expect a typical arcade shooter experience to be.

I remember the individual stage leaderboards, but I felt at the time that was too limited, and wanted groups of levels. Really though that's probably the best way to do it, you're right.

Maybe the best advice is to just ignore the ALL leaderboard.

[evil_ash_xero]

This is actually my favorite game of the new generation of systems. Xbox, Wii, PS3, PSP, DS...everything.

I just think it's great, and it doesn't falter or have any problems that drag it down. It's Treasure at their best.

So, this is out now in Europe? When is the U.S. version coming out?

I'm glad to see IGN UK give it it's props. When Famitsu gave it 8887 I was like, "hey, that's pretty good". Then I played it, and thought there is no way it should have gotten less than an 8(9 is what I would give it). Hopefully more western reviews will follow like this one.

[Skykid]

Skykid: I just got around to finishing this after our discussion the other day. What can I say? It's mind-blowingly exceptional. I can't believe how creative some of the bosses are. Truly an incredible experience.

Well worthy of a double post too.

It's one of the most awe-inspiring adventures in modern gaming as far as I'm concerned. I haven't yet finished it myself, I'm pushing for a 1CC but I think I'm going to do a credit feed just for the hell of it as I can't wait much longer.

If only all new games were this good.

[dan76]

I caught the trailer last night on tv. Surprising to see a Treasure being promoted - maybe it because of all the great reviews it's getting. I haven't really read anything bad about the game so far, except that it's "not for everyone"... that, and it's a bit pricey at £40. Definitely picking it up though.

[Klatrymadon]

Holy shit. I'd been actively avoiding information about S&P2 for ages, but having just watched a couple of videos (for parts of stages two and three), I'll be heading into town to buy this first thing in the morning.

[Rupert H]

Well worthy of a double post too.

Yeah, I edited it but it somehow glitched another post up. Is there a way to delete posts? I couldn't see it myself.

Meanwhile, back on-topic... There are so many things I love about it. The Gunstar Heroes-style boss rush at the end with boss onlookers, that lava submarine, the climbing boss with the destructble blocks, the rear-mirror train boss. I could go on but just about every boss in the game is worthy of remark so I'll can in there.

[Skykid]

Well worthy of a double post too.

Yeah, I edited it but it somehow glitched another post up. Is there a way to delete posts? I couldn't see it myself.

Meanwhile, back on-topic... There are so many things I love about it. The Gunstar Heroes-style boss rush at the end with boss onlookers, that lava submarine, the climbing boss with the destructble blocks, the rear-mirror train boss. I could go on but just about every boss in the game is worthy of remark so I'll can in there.

Woah, spoilers there man!

Don't worry about the double post dude, doesn't matter.

It's the constant invention in S&P2 that's staggering and exhausting at the same time. It just proves how little creativity exists in other modern games when Treasure seem to be able to do it at a whim and never drop the pace for four straight hours. It's not uncompromisingly difficult like some of their other titles, with plenty of life bonuses to be had, and that puts it right up there for me as it's a game I can see myself playing for ages without getting frustrated about anything except the length.

One of their best. I think we can all agree, despite it's great points, this utterly destroys the original game also.

[Klatrymadon]

I haven't bought a game from a physical high-street store in years, but I was in town today and looking forward to picking up S&P2, and none of the fucking fuck fucks had it. Most of 'em didn't even have "coming soon" display boxes out. I'll not bother my arse again. To Play.com!

[guigui]

Well, when you actually think about it, how would they implement a save and quit feature that let you keep your score?

You always start at the last checkpoint, so it would need to save your score at the exact moment you passed that point and because of the checkpoint you could save and quit if things start to go wrong before the next checkpoint. Even if your save was deleted when you load your game you could always save and quit before the next checkpoint to avoid mistakes and try again.

Maybe a score attack only mode where you can save and quit between each stage, but once you load your save it's deleted. Whatever, it's not going to happen for the North American release.

What about a "save and quit" that actually saves and quits AT THE NEXT checkpoint. Those are quite numerous so, if mum calls for dinner, you save and quit, play up to the next checkpoint, which wont take more than 5 minutes, where the game automatically quits and you go to eat. When you come back, just load and start at that checkpoint. No abuse possible hey ?

[WarpZone]

I think we can all agree, despite it's great points, this utterly destroys the original game also.

I agree the sequel is better, with more fun/developed mechanics, even greater range of ideas, and more scoring depth, but I wouldn't go that far.

I still prefer things about the original -- better art direction, certain pacing elements, more consistent boss design, and it has some ideas the sequel doesn't replace, such as the focus on tight ground-based level design, and for all their craziness no stage in the sequel captures the sense of scope, continuous assault, and piece-by-piece dismantling of the battleship armada section.

But if you've still only seen up to stage 3 (?) of the sequel, I think you've played its best stretch, to be honest. There is no dramatic drop off in quality or anything, but I think the game hits a high point by the end of stage 3 it never quite regains.

[Ebbo]

Just got it and loving every frickin' second of it. Thanks to all this hype (I'm looking at you, Skykid ) I was a bit worried whether the game would be nearly as good as I thought. But after few tries, I'm left speechless: It IS simply amazing. I can't really come up with anything else at the moment, I just want to play it more.

Also, I was pleasantly suprised by the fact you can change VA and even subtitles to japanese. Not that the story is going to win any awards but still a nice touch. And so far I haven't noticed any problems with PAL version - feels pretty solid to me.

Edit: I forgot to mention: We got Phoenix Keeper instead of Cock Keeper :/

[Skykid]

Thanks to all this hype (I'm looking at you, Skykid )

No problems man, I'm going to keep hyping it too until everyone buys a Wii just to play it.

@Warpzone - I'm going to do some credit feeding now to see what lies ahead. I managed to get my new highest 'all' score last night and I'm still 364th

No doubt the original S&P was one tight game, I'm not taking anything away from it - I just feel that this sequel really finds a balance the original couldn't in both terms of control, design, difficulty and all round badassness. The soundtrack is far better and the sluggishness of the original and moments of sheer confusion are completely diminished. I also find scoring is much more enjoyable a pursuit.

One thing I definitely don't agree with is that the sequel doesn't match the original's sense of scope? S&P2 is pure scope, I've never witnessed a third person action game that utilises scale to such continual dramatic effect. The graphics are stunning.

[sfried]

Thanks to all this hype (I'm looking at you, Skykid )

No problems man, I'm going to keep hyping it too until everyone buys a Wii just to play it.

I don't need hype. I just need it to come out here just to play it.

Also you UK guys get the "better" subtitle ("Successor to the Sky").

[guigui]

For those willing to share their high scores elsewhere than on the cold anonymous wired (but still great) ranking, I set an high score thread on the french forum shmup.com. English speakers are welcome of course !
http://forum.shmup.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=12480

[Ebbo]

No problems man, I'm going to keep hyping it too until everyone buys a Wii just to play it.

Yeah, I just decided to join the bandwagon. Already wrote about the game at few finnish gameforums. Too bad pretty much all of them are too busy with their Monster Hunter Tri to pay any attention to this and seriously, that just makes me sad. Most of the comments follow pretty much the same pattern: "Yeeeah, it looks okay but isn't this game really short? Not gonna pay 50€ for this."

Tried the co-op with my friend yesterday. It's a shame you can't have two characters but considering how much the camera keeps moving and spanning around (and sometimes is even following player's movement) it's understandable. It's still fun and unlike say, Super Mario Galaxy, extra firepower is actually helpful in this game.

Also, about WarpZone's comment: Stage 3 is without a doubt one of the most epic and action packed levels in any action game to date, but I don't fully agree with you saying the game really doesn't get any better from there. Stage 4 is surely much more smaller when it comes to scale and overall pace, but it's still extremely entertaining and IMO even richer in atmosphere than stage 3. I haven't yet reached later levels though, but I'm too excited to see what Treasure is going to throw at me next, so I might just aswell do some credit feeding.

[Skykid]

Stage 4 is surely much more smaller when it comes to scale and overall pace, but it's still extremely entertaining and IMO even richer in atmosphere than stage 3.

It's Treasure doing Ninja Assault - it's awesome!

[guigui]

I haven't yet reached later levels though, but I'm too excited to see what Treasure is going to throw at me next, so I might just aswell do some credit feeding.

First time I reached Stage 5, I was just like "... wahou ...". Maybe it is the one I prefer, the fact that you **** *** (spoilers around) reminds me a lot of S&P1 and I like it

[MX7]

Gawd, I cannot wait to play this Just need to be in the same house as a Wii and I can finally catch up on some awesome games.

[Klatrymadon]

Been playing this since yesterday. You chaps certainly weren't overselling it - this is one of my favourite games of the last decade! So far I'm getting up to the level three boss consistently, and having a blast developing good strategies for that level. I love the fight with the wee girl before the boss, too; parrying her rushing attacks and letting her have a bomb in the chops is incredibly satisfying. Will post more thoughts after I've cleared it. Really glad the leaderboards are set up in a stage-specific manner, though - can't wait to get stuck into that kind of competition.

[Skykid]

Been playing this since yesterday. You chaps certainly weren't overselling it - this is one of my favourite games of the last decade!

Wahey, these are the sort of comments I've been waiting to hear!

It's too awesome isn't it?

[dan76]

Yeah, it is! I've had it a couple of days - gave into credit feeding to the end today, just wanted to see it - it's a game I'll want to master. I'm a big fan of light gun shooters so I won't be tiring of these levels anytime soon. It's so darn creative - one of the clever things about it is that the boss designs are so distinctive that it's quite easy remembering patterns - amazing considering how many bosses there are in the game. It's the kind of game I was hoping for when the wii was first announced.

... so, anyone have a list of all the special bonus conditions..? Tips or tricks... Would we be allowed a strat thread?

[Ebbo]

It's so darn creative - one of the clever things about it is that the boss designs are so distinctive that it's quite easy remembering patterns - amazing considering how many bosses there are in the game.

Indeed. Even the level design is so diverse it really takes almost no time to remember the major features of each stage - mastering them is another story.
I too credit feeded to see the final stages...

This game really has no boundaries It's even better than everyone makes it sound to be.

... so, anyone have a list of all the special bonus conditions..? Tips or tricks... Would we be allowed a strat thread?

I'd like to hear about these things too. So far I've only found two videos which show you how to get all special bonuses in Stage 1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGDAZBmvGv8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zk4lL6oi ... re=related
It's mostly about getting enough hits, destroying certain amount of some enemy type/scenery or using some specific tactic on bosses.
So far my best total run is just tad under 150 mil. That frickin' chimera at the end of stage 5 is giving me hard time.

Edit: Here are some special bonus conditions WarpZone listed:
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 25#p531125

[guigui]

Edit: Here are some special bonus conditions WarpZone listed:
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 25#p531125

In this very same thread by the way.

So far my best total run is just tad under 150 mil. That frickin' chimera at the end of stage 5 is giving me hard time.

As for the Chimera, I play the gay way : destroy one of its wing as fast as possible, then just focus on the head for the rest of the fight. This way it will just loop between basic attacks, the easiest of all being the two real slow beams coming from both wings... well actually, there's only one left ! Dont charge shot on the head since collateral damage could destroy the other wing, just be patient.
If you destroy both wings, it will turn kind of Berserk and scares me to death !

[dan76]

@ Ebbo - thanks! Should've checked previous posts duh...

[Klatrymadon]

Getting to level six, now. Starts getting pretty damned tough around the stage five boss, eh? I had a rough time with that cannon at the front of the lava-submarine thing, too - couldn't make head or tail of it for a while, but I made it through thanks to its tiny life bar and managed to get as far as the charging beasties. Gonna be putting some serious practice into these two levels, methinks.

[Ebbo]

The main cannon isn't that bad to survive - I just avoid the main laser at all costs and move clockwise, waiting till Isa's charge weapon builds up. Then again, surviving that boss without taking hits is irritating with all those small energy balls flying around. I usually have to stop and melee attack them in order have some space to breath. But it's nothing some practice wouldn't fix though.

I'm struggling with Hatchling Keeper myself. That little nuisance just has too much health for its own good...

[guigui]

The main cannon isn't that bad to survive - I just avoid the main laser at all costs and move clockwise, waiting till Isa's charge weapon builds up. Then again, surviving that boss without taking hits is irritating with all those small energy balls flying around. I usually have to stop and melee attack them in order have some space to breath. But it's nothing some practice wouldn't fix though.

I'm struggling with Hatchling Keeper myself. That little nuisance just has too much health for its own good...

Damned, I've been playing the game for over siw months now, and did not even notice that energy ball of the big cannon on the ship in stage 6 could be taken out with melee ! This will certainly make things easier...

Also, which one is Hatchling Keeper ?