Any thoughts on Neo Geo AES+?

[bobrocks95]

The base unit for $250 with a stick included stomps any current aftermarket AES deals. You'd probably be looking at around $600-$650 USD on the low end when imported from Japan, and if they're anything like the average MV-1C boards, they haven't held up great.

I see decent shape working AES consoles+stick for around 250-300 USD with the yen being so cheap the past year. Of course they can get more expensive when they are pristine and complete with the box.

I can see the value proposition for 250 if it ends up being truly faithful to the original. Though it will always carry the downside of not being "original". Kinda like reprints of rare CD games.

A friend has been trying to get a low serial AES + stick on Yahoo Japan auctions for several months now for ~$500 after factoring in shipping to the US and has lost every auction so far. I think I'm a little high and you're a lot low. Either way it's competitively priced, again assuming that the actual console is good. Nobody knows for sure yet.

[fernan1234]

A friend has been trying to get a low serial AES + stick on Yahoo Japan auctions for several months now for ~$500 after factoring in shipping to the US and has lost every auction so far. I think I'm a little high and you're a lot low. Either way it's competitively priced, again assuming that the actual console is good. Nobody knows for sure yet.

Yeah I agree that it is a good value, assuming that it really performs like the real thing.

BTW your friend may want to know that there's no need to chase a low serial AES anymore, if it's about the jailbar issues on later units that can have even cleaner video output easily by simply stripping three useless traces.

[Gara]

I see decent shape working AES consoles+stick for around 250-300 USD with the yen being so cheap the past year. Of course they can get more expensive when they are pristine and complete with the box.

Those would be listings that are sold as junk or at best units that are untested. The yen to USD conversion is great, but working AES units just aren't selling that cheaply.

[Restart_Point]

I don't see how they can do it at those seemingly low prices while adhering 100% to the initial claims. I'm not an expert but I presume the reason no other company like Sega / Konami (PC Engine) has made real-hardware remakes of their consoles, is because it's not financially viable. Is it possible that Embracer Group (owns Plaion) are putting money into big production runs, even making a loss on the hardware to sell the games? Is the demand high enough to support a model like that?

At the moment I view this pre-order as no more reliable than a kickstarter based on CGI mockups and some lofty, vague claims.

I know Jotego has made a vague comment about his involvement (Furrtek has now deleted his first tweet about involvement!), but why are Plaion not making a big thing of that, and we are just getting hints and rumours on social media? They could have announced this before putting up the pre-orders, leading with the involvement of estimable names like Jotego and Furrtek, development & production info, review units etc.

Some interesting reading I just found RE claims of it being a "bait & switch" https://www.notebookcheck.net/FPGA-deve ... 381.0.html

I feel they haven't given enough proof of what they are claiming to justify $1000 pre-order bundles out of the blue, which looks like FOMO marketing, always a turn off for me personally. Really gonna need some reliable evidence of performance, build quality, video output and scaler quality, latency etc before I put any money down.

.

[Bassa-Bassa]

Furrtek only said he helped a bit with the "design review" and that he used ("licensed") some of Jotego's work. People just love snowballs.

SNK, on the other hand, is advertising it in Japan more than usual with licensed products.

[D]

I don't se how they can do it at those seemingly low prices while adhering 100% to the initial claims.

I feel the same way.
Let me speculate how this will go.
At every turn they might give you the chance to cancel your order at no cost. Just to keep the hype train on a positive note.
At every critical comment or question someone will point out:
'hey you can always cancel at any cost'

So I think there will be one delay
Then another delay and eventually it will be mostly FPGA and even partly emulation. And by then everyone has had their sights set on getting this. And will not cancel it, because you just want to hold it in your hands by then.

I really hope that this is not the case, but it is all too good to be true. 199 euros (in 2026 with all the madness going on currently) for an AES, joystick, power supply, hdmi cable is just way too good to be true. I think in some cases a spare console shell (just the plastic) will sell for this alone.


Also this seems like the very first time that this has ever happened in history.
New original hardware. Please correct me if this has ever happened before.

I really want this even though I allready have a super heavily modded MVS with add-ons galore.

[Josh128]

I don't se how they can do it at those seemingly low prices while adhering 100% to the initial claims.

I feel the same way.
Let me speculate how this will go.
At every turn they might give you the chance to cancel your order at no cost. Just to keep the hype train on a positive note.
At every critical comment or question someone will point out:
'hey you can always cancel at any cost'

So I think there will be one delay
Then another delay and eventually it will be mostly FPGA and even partly emulation. And by then everyone has had their sights set on getting this. And will not cancel it, because you just want to hold it in your hands by then.

I really hope that this is not the case, but it is all too good to be true. 199 euros (in 2026 with all the madness going on currently) for an AES, joystick, power supply, hdmi cable is just way too good to be true. I think in some cases a spare console shell (just the plastic) will sell for this alone.


Also this seems like the very first time that this has ever happened in history.
New original hardware. Please correct me if this has ever happened before.

I really want this even though I allready have a super heavily modded MVS with add-ons galore.

If you consider official console shrinks and redesigns dating back at least to Atari 2600, its not at the first time its ever happened. This can apparently be considered an official SNK product, it seems. It is certainly the longest gap between an original and a new redesign/revision.

As for it being FPGA/emulation, I think that question has already been answered. There is basically zero chance they die shrunk a Motorola 68HC000, the Z80, and the proprietary Neo Geo Neo B1 and the LSPC-A2 chips and all their supporting I/O. Its almost certainly a fixed / fused fpga style approximation of the functionality of these chips. A tiny chip/chips on a tiny board, most likely.

I recently read that it will include an "overclocking option via dip switch" to eliminate slowdown that is historically present in some games, and that the video out will not be RGB or S-Video but composite?

Regardless of how it was achieved, the goal of authenticity is to be commended, and the proposed price is pretty fantastic, all things considered. From my POV, this effort should be supported at all costs.

One thing I didnt catch or recall hearing, does it actually play authentic 35 year old AES cartridges as well as the new issues?

[Bassa-Bassa]

This can apparently be considered an official SNK product, it seems.

As much as, say, the Neo-Geo X by Tommo.

[DrTrouserPlank]

Well, I'm in for an Ultimate Edition and a white pre-order on Amazon.

I mean this is pretty fucking massive if it can deliver a good hardware-based experience of playing these games. My concern if we can actually pass that bar is that future software releases might never happen and it might be those 10 games and you're done. In fairness that doesn't devalue the purchase if you want those games, and view the value of the purchase based purely on what is available day one and not the potential for future releases.

SNK seemed to develop a lot of the games for the Neo-Geo however, and one has to assume that anything third-party that is also on the digital stores has to be potentially in the frame for a port, seeing as the rights for those games are still in someone's catalogue and not stuck in some IP bankruptcy limbo.

One thing I didnt catch or recall hearing, does it actually play authentic 35 year old AES cartridges as well as the new issues?

It does.

[spmbx]

One thing I didnt catch or recall hearing, does it actually play authentic 35 year old AES cartridges as well as the new issues?

They listed that as a feature
"Compatible with new NEOGEO AES game cartridges and backward-compatible with original NEOGEO AES game cartridges"
https://presse.plaion.com/NEOGEO-AES

[bobrocks95]

A friend has been trying to get a low serial AES + stick on Yahoo Japan auctions for several months now for ~$500 after factoring in shipping to the US and has lost every auction so far. I think I'm a little high and you're a lot low. Either way it's competitively priced, again assuming that the actual console is good. Nobody knows for sure yet.

BTW your friend may want to know that there's no need to chase a low serial AES anymore, if it's about the jailbar issues on later units that can have even cleaner video output easily by simply stripping three useless traces.

I will forward that on! He did say it was related to video quality.

I'm fine with the console being a dud (certainly the hardest part to get right) if the cartridges are properly made and the controllers decent. 10 reproduction AES carts for $1k is unfortunately already a good deal, which speaks more to insane AES pricing than anything Plaion is doing.

[azmun]

I'm not an expert but I presume the reason no other company like Sega / Konami (PC Engine) has made real-hardware remakes of their consoles, is because it's not financially viable. Is it possible that Embracer Group (owns Plaion) are putting money into big production runs, even making a loss on the hardware to sell the games? Is the demand high enough to support a model like that?

Good question. I agree it's why companies like Sega, Nintendo, etc. don't reissue their old stuff, among other reasons. I don't see demand for old titles and consoles suddenly making a comeback and highly doubt it's sustainable. These products are past their heyday and life cycle.

Also this seems like the very first time that this has ever happened in history.
New original hardware. Please correct me if this has ever happened before.

Yes, I'd also argue this is pretty unprecedented although it depends on how you look at it. I remember back in the 80s (1986?) when Atari revived their 2600 (launched in 1977) to compete with Nintendo and Sega's 8-bit hardware. I don't think that turned out too well.

If you consider official console shrinks and redesigns dating back at least to Atari 2600, its not at the first time its ever happened. This can apparently be considered an official SNK product, it seems. It is certainly the longest gap between an original and a new redesign/revision.

As for it being FPGA/emulation, I think that question has already been answered. There is basically zero chance they die shrunk a Motorola 68HC000, the Z80, and the proprietary Neo Geo Neo B1 and the LSPC-A2 chips and all their supporting I/O. Its almost certainly a fixed / fused fpga style approximation of the functionality of these chips. A tiny chip/chips on a tiny board, most likely.

Regardless of how it was achieved, the goal of authenticity is to be commended, and the proposed price is pretty fantastic, all things considered. From my POV, this effort should be supported at all costs.

Haha, authenticity or multiplicity? It's official because it's licensed. Not genuine or real as they (hint, it's not SNK) are reverse engineering the guts of this thing. The closest analogy I got is when Sega licensed their console to Majesco (i.e. Genesis 3) back in 1998. I consider that OG hardware and authentic. Because it was designed by Sega themselves from the ground up. Unlike this soon to be imitation. I can support honest and commendable effort. But not vague language that can be misleading.

[fernan1234]

Those would be listings that are sold as junk or at best units that are untested. The yen to USD conversion is great, but working AES units just aren't selling that cheaply.

This is just standard japanese second hand market stuff. People will show a console or computer working perfectly and will still list it as junk just to cover their asses against picky buyers opening claims. Even untested listed as junk stuff tends to be a good bet.

I do think there are good deals to be had out there still, but something like this that takes the gambling aspect out of the equation is nice (again, if it ends up being what it is promising).

As I said before though, even in the best case scenario you can bet everything on this thing being delayed.

[Sumez]

I'm not an expert but I presume the reason no other company like Sega / Konami (PC Engine) has made real-hardware remakes of their consoles, is because it's not financially viable. Is it possible that Embracer Group (owns Plaion) are putting money into big production runs, even making a loss on the hardware to sell the games? Is the demand high enough to support a model like that?

Good question. I agree it's why companies like Sega, Nintendo, etc. don't reissue their old stuff, among other reasons. I don't see demand for old titles and consoles suddenly making a comeback and highly doubt it's sustainable. These products are past their heyday and life cycle.

Not making any excuses for Embracer, they are clearly a shitty company
But the guy running it is famously a big arcade and Neo Geo nerd, and this is definitely a passion project of theirs

I also don't think buying Tatsujin was intended as a major financial investment either

[neorichieb1971]

It should be noted about the price point and build quality and the represented claims that the owner of SNK is Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman of Saudi Arabia. I don't think the price point will be reflective of the quality, I would imagine it would be of the highest quality and sold at a loss. The Saudi's are just toying with markets to jumpstart new revenues and in some cases its just a fan that has billions of dollars doing this and that.

In terms of it being a success, I am sure it will be. I am worried with nextgen systems being priced similar to the old neo geo price points that it won't happen soon for PS6 or the next Xbox steam machine because those price points are not reflective of mainstream audiences. When you price a system into 4 figures people expect pretty much real life graphics with a simulator feel to the gameplay, nobody is going to buy a $1000+ machine to play the latest ratchet and clank game and that heavily affects adoption rates with younger audiences. Which I feel Nintendo plays a bit part of getting those adoption rates in which the other 2 companies are ignoring completely. With that said, other companies like Nintendo and Sony might follow suit with cheaper systems that play old games. Mini consoles didn't take gamers out of the eco system of current gen systems that much, but a system that plays old CD's and cartridges does quite a bit, which is why that model has never been officially followed through. But if SNK Neo Geo AES systems fly off shelves that is a possibility that others will follow. The only people they are hurting is collectors and the CEX/Retro games shops/Hard off/Suragayas of the world who will hold inventory of old games which will typically devalue to 1.5x-2x what the reproduction goes for.

[Josh128]

It should be noted about the price point and build quality and the represented claims that the owner of SNK is Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman of Saudi Arabia. I don't think the price point will be reflective of the quality, I would imagine it would be of the highest quality and sold at a loss. The Saudi's are just toying with markets to jumpstart new revenues and in some cases its just a fan that has billions of dollars doing this and that.

Ahh...now this is starting to make a little bit of sense. A pet project of one of the most wealthy individuals on the planet is pretty much the only thing that makes sense for this. Many, many people that grew up in the '80s and '90s know NES, SNES, and Sega Genesis. Probably less than 10% of those same people ever even heard of Neo Geo, let alone actually played or pined for one. If the venture breaks even or even loses 5-10 million dollars, if it brings some personal satisfaction to Prince Salman, that is a probably well worth it for him. I'll be honest, if I was a multi-billionaire, instead of buying 100 million dollar superyachts with my spare money, I'd probably be funding a couple of similar retro gaming projects myself, so I have to give the man mad props.

Rich benefactors in Saudi Arabia and the UAE have a history of doing such things. A prime example is the explosion of the popularity of brazilian jiu-jitsu as a sport. It was introduced to the wide world by Gracie family putting on and winning bare knuckle limited rules fights in the UFC, but its popularity as a safe sport for the masses didnt really get a whole lot of traction until Sheikh Tahnoon Bin Zayed Al Nahyan of the United Arab Emirates, an MMA and jiu-jitsu fanatic from very early on, personally bankrolled a bi-annual "super competition" of the biggest names in the world called the Abu Dhabi Combat Club Submission Wrestling World Championships, referred to today as simply "ADCC World Championships". Literally nobody knew about it in the beginning except the most hardcore of the hardcore fanatics, such as myself, but they bankrolled it and stuck with it until now, when almost every moderately sized town on the planet has at least a gym or two. That almost certainly would not be the case without the financial backing of Sheikh Tahnoon.

[Bassa-Bassa]

Details of the deal will evade us probably forever, but again, this is a Plaion endeavour and SNK's just licensing out, much like they allowed the Neo-Geo X, the Evercade Neo-Geo releases, or Hamster's Arcade Archive Neo-Geo. If it's a pet project, it's this company (or its owner Embracer) the one you should look at. At least, until more details saying otherwise are revealed.

[neorichieb1971]

It should be noted about the price point and build quality and the represented claims that the owner of SNK is Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman of Saudi Arabia. I don't think the price point will be reflective of the quality, I would imagine it would be of the highest quality and sold at a loss. The Saudi's are just toying with markets to jumpstart new revenues and in some cases its just a fan that has billions of dollars doing this and that.

Ahh...now this is starting to make a little bit of sense. A pet project of one of the most wealthy individuals on the planet is pretty much the only thing that makes sense for this. Many, many people that grew up in the '80s and '90s know NES, SNES, and Sega Genesis. Probably less than 10% of those same people ever even heard of Neo Geo, let alone actually played or pined for one. If the venture breaks even or even loses 5-10 million dollars, if it brings some personal satisfaction to Prince Salman, that is a probably well worth it for him. I'll be honest, if I was a multi-billionaire, instead of buying 100 million dollar superyachts with my spare money, I'd probably be funding a couple of similar retro gaming projects myself, so I have to give the man mad props.

Rich benefactors in Saudi Arabia and the UAE have a history of doing such things. A prime example is the explosion of the popularity of brazilian jiu-jitsu as a sport. It was introduced to the wide world by Gracie family putting on and winning bare knuckle limited rules fights in the UFC, but its popularity as a safe sport for the masses didnt really get a whole lot of traction until Sheikh Tahnoon Bin Zayed Al Nahyan of the United Arab Emirates, an MMA and jiu-jitsu fanatic from very early on, personally bankrolled a bi-annual "super competition" of the biggest names in the world called the Abu Dhabi Combat Club Submission Wrestling World Championships, referred to today as simply "ADCC World Championships". Literally nobody knew about it in the beginning except the most hardcore of the hardcore fanatics, such as myself, but they bankrolled it and stuck with it until now, when almost every moderately sized town on the planet has at least a gym or two. That almost certainly would not be the case without the financial backing of Sheikh Tahnoon.

Its a shame Prince Salman didn't start a CRT production line or at least develop something that produces a similar CRT result. I just hit up AI with never developed mass produced technologies which it says can produce perfect CRT type displays in a smaller footprint using lighter materials that doesn't even use a vaccum tube. Carbon Nanotube FEDs (Field Emission Displays) and Laser Phosphor displays (LPD) were 2 technologies which it says would cost millions, but Salman has the cash and I think it would be a hit with enthusiasts as it would technically work with every console that sent out an analog signal. This wouldn't be faking a CRT image, it would be delivering light to the screen in a CRT fashion, using progressive/interlaced light delivery line by line just like a CRT. I'm getting off topic, but it seems very interesting. If I was a billionaire, i'd look into these technologies. TV's as they are today are flat, but quite boring and much of a muchness. How do you make a TV interesting again?

[SGGG2]

I wish this was positioned as a modern-retro console, but with $80 games it's more geared towards capturing funds from collectors. I think there's a real market for something like this if one of the previous luminaries steps up (SEGA, Nintendo, NEC, etc).

[tzm_rade]

The concept is cool but I'm highly skeptical of the final build quality. We're not exactly in a golden age of high quality products that are made with quality parts and last years and years like they used to.

[Syntax]

If they used Jotego's then its probably just an ASIC system based on Furrtek's Neo Geo MiSTer FPGA core.
Might as well buy a kick ass MiSTer setup for that price and run games for free, with more video/controller options, you'll get frequent accessible updates to the core also compared to SNK.

[orange808]

In theory, you could start selling carts tomorrow if they met the JAMMA+ standard. The trick would be engineering every cart from scratch as a unique design to discourage cloning and flashcart piracy; at least, as a short term moat.

With dip switches, you could add a coin op mode for existing on location JAMMA+ cabs.

But, of course, I am not a prince, so there's no way to try it--and it may not work...

The biggest hurdle isn't necessarily the potential demand or hardware. We could make some fantastic 2d game designs using self contained carts and modern C++, because Moore's Law has made capable hardware so cheap. The big problem is inevitable software emulation and MAME. Everyone might just steal the games. Everyone thinks 2d games are free. ¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯

Maybe the fact that you're pirates is the real reason we can't have nice things...

----

Maybe MiSTer?... I see there's DRM for cores on MiSTer. Selling access to games you didn't write and don't own is stealing, by the way. Making it free later doesn't change the fact that you sold software that isn't really yours, by the way... Maybe make new games instead?... After you introduce DRM gating, it's not a donation. Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining.

[Bassa-Bassa]

As we reflect on how Neo Geo AES+ has been received over the past week, it’s hard not to pause for a moment.

The reception from the global retro community over the past week has been nothing short of overwhelming. Within the first 24 hours, we took more paid preorders than our entire annual forecasted volume of the Neo Geo AES+. Since then, sales have continued strongly through our own channels, online retailers, and specialist stores. Seeing the console currently ranked #1 on Amazon US across the entire Video Games category is both humbling and deeply inspiring. The team are now updated our production forecasts ahead of the launch Nov 12.

But what makes me happiest isn’t the numbers themselves, but what they represent. Neo Geo AES+ is a clear example of how passion, cultural heritage, and business can come together. The retro business is very close to my heart, and there is something special about projects where history is not only preserved but allowed to live on and create new value. In this context, the role of the Embracer Games Archive has been crucial. Its work is a prerequisite for projects like this to even be possible, and I want to particularly highlight the importance of that contribution.

A big and heartfelt thank you to 株式会社SNK（SNK CORPORATION） (below picture is when the former SNK CEO Kenji Matsubara-san visiting the archive in Karlstad last year) for trusting us to take this journey in bringing back the Neo Geo AES. When stewarding an iconic brand, genuine trust and a shared long-term vision is vital and that is exactly what this project has been built on. Special thanks to Ben Jones, Martin Lindell, CRAIG MCNICOL and everyone else who made this happen.

The continued journey of Neo Geo AES+ particularly the ongoing conversations around which additional titles may follow the first ten releases is something I follow with great anticipation. This truly feels like the beginning of something new.

It was long-time ago I got such excited for a new product. Ordered my Ultimate set last friday. Anyone else that has pre-ordered?

https://www.linkedin.com/posts/lars-win ... 72257-WBzW

In case there're people still thinking SNK's behind this.

Now they need to clarify this AES+ is not a replica but indeed based on emulation and reverse engineering. I guess they won't.

[Sumez]

Now they need to clarify this AES+ is not a replica but indeed based on emulation and reverse engineering. I guess they won't.

What's the distinction in your book?

From everything I've heard, this sounds like a replica. Does making a new chipset that does the same as old chips which aren't being actively produced anymore count as "emulation"? At what point does it stop qualifying? Is the MegaDrive 2 an emulator of MegaDrive 1?

[Bassa-Bassa]

Does it really do the same, though? The Mister core, while incredibly accurate from the user's perspective, is still an approximation. Doesn't look like the AES+ is improving over that. They're selling it as if SNK handed over the original designs and we all? know that's not the case. There're no technical benefits over current FPGA as they imply, much the contrary.

Besides, I personally would not call it a replica if you're adding digital video out and overclocking switches. The latter particularly is going to make most people believe that slowdown-free versions have some sort of officialism now.

[neorichieb1971]

In my book, this AES plus is just like an Analogue product. It plays the old games with HDMI out and will probably have a few tweaky options built in. For most, it won't matter whats inside. A friend in 1994 told me, I don't care about the spces, I just care whats on the screen. So I think that still applies for eternity.

What will likely happen is the system is sold at a loss in high quality, 161 in 1 AES carts will be mass produced by China and sold on Ali express and the game library of reproduction cartridges will sit on shop shelves unsold. A few titles will pop up around 5 months after launch and the market will drop off and will die. A few years later ithe NG+ will become a collectors item and it will go up in price way beyond its original MSRP and the cycle continues.

[mrsmiley381]

In my book, this AES plus is just like an Analogue product. It plays the old games with HDMI out and will probably have a few tweaky options built in. For most, it won't matter whats inside. A friend in 1994 told me, I don't care about the spces, I just care whats on the screen. So I think that still applies for eternity.

What will likely happen is the system is sold at a loss in high quality, 161 in 1 AES carts will be mass produced by China and sold on Ali express and the game library of reproduction cartridges will sit on shop shelves unsold. A few titles will pop up around 5 months after launch and the market will drop off and will die. A few years later ithe NG+ will become a collectors item and it will go up in price way beyond its original MSRP and the cycle continues.

I might as well throw my hat in the arena and admit I preordered one of everything expecting that there will be an aftermarket value that exceeds the initial investment, even if the carts have a strangely short lifespan and the hardware accuracy is low. Worst case scenario, my systems will go on display at my friend's game store and the base unit will be used to test legitimate Neo Geo games when they pass through. If the hardware is pretty functional I'll slap that Garou cart in and play the shit out of it. At the entry price, it's still kinda hard to say no to that.

If the controllers are pretty decent I can use them with my MiSTerFPGA system of choice.

[R79]

Has the Dollar collpased? Guy on Klov near 'Philly' has just listed a nice looking, fully working MVS 4-slot, actual cab, with 4 games (!), for just $1500!! If that was anywhere near me in England, have it in a heartbeat, what a total bargain at today's prices, wow. Point for point, you could buy that, and plenty of killer carts still on eBay each month well under 200 bucks loose, probably work out cheaper than this new project (which is nice, not trying to knock it) and basically have the real, hundred percent authentic last century experience

[R79]

Just to quantify that, in general UK prices pound sterling, games like Mark of the Wolves or Last Blade 2 went from like £400-600 pre Pandemic, to now around £1000 LB2, or over £2000 MOTW! That's for original boxed complete JP home carts on AES.

Real Bout 2, another excellent late stage, fluid animation 2d fighter, you're looking at well over 500 quid AES, or well under 200 for the MVS version, the difference is clear.

[Sumez]

Does it really do the same, though? The Mister core, while incredibly accurate from the user's perspective, is still an approximation.

How so?
I don't know anything about the Mister core for Neo Geo, but I feel like for 1989 hardware they had no reason to not just make it like it is.

Again, compared to MegaDrive 1 or 2 (or many other consoles which had hardware revisions), how is it different? Those all work differently internally