Sony FD Trinitron Wega KD-36XS955 4:3 Super Fine Pitch HD CRT

[BazookaBen]

I wonder if the bypass circuitry could rigged up somehow on TVs that don't normally have it

[Josh128]

I wonder if the bypass circuitry could rigged up somehow on TVs that don't normally have it

Check the info incrediblehark posted, looks like just one IC and 3 caps are missing when HDPT working and HDPT non working boards on a 40XBR800 are compared. Probably similar missing components for all Sony HDCRTs with non-working HDPT.

viewtopic.php?p=1544959&hilit=Dump#p1483751

Its been a while, but I figured I'd post an update:

I finally was able to locate a replacement B board for my 40XBR800, and install it today. 540p mode now works as intended, and looks amazing! I have no real way of testing input lag, but I will say the picture looks sharper and overall better. I still have not had success with lightgun games - at least Sega Saturn and PS2. Haven't tried Duck Hunt yet. Josh if you are reading this did you ever get any more testing done? Any settings on the 5x and/or Service menu I should double check?


As for the B board: When comparing the two, there really is only an IC and 3 capacitors missing from my original. I attached a picture below comparing the two (new B board on top):

Spoiler

The AVSForums did mention an IC being on the corrected B Boards, I just did not realize that was the only difference. The IC (labelled on board as IC3414) is a Mitsubishi M52055FP and the 3 Capacitors look to be 10uf 16v if I read them correctly. That should be all it takes to get the HDPT bypass working on older B boards for the 40XBR800, though in the AVS Forums thread it mentions Sony telling its techs to not attempt servicing the original boards. Just thought I'd leave this info for future reference, I'm happy to have 540p on my set now!

[Josh128]

More info on the M52055FP IC. Seems pretty standard. If populating this and 3 caps is all it takes, well that would be pretty spiffy. Theres availability on Ebay right now.

M52055FP Product details
Description

The M52055 is semiconductor integrated circuit for electronic switches used in VCR, AUDIO signal processing applications. It contains three channel two input switch circuits with each switch is controlled independently.

[vol.2]

This is great. I have a 32" Sony HDCRT that I've already enabled the bypass on. So you're using a RT5X to upscale everything to 540p then?

[Josh128]

You had to repopulate the IC and caps on the board, or you just enabled in the service menu and it worked?

540p can be obtained in a variety of ways, depending on your needs. Ive gotten it working fine with a GC running Swiss with 540p output selected, a MiSTer with a 540p modeline, and of course the RT5X. I understand the OSSC Pro has it as a choosable output as well.

[BazookaBen]

Another easy way to test 540p is just to make a custom resolution from a PC to a component converter.

I think even the older graphics cards with component output can do 540p

[vol.2]

You had to repopulate the IC and caps on the board, or you just enabled in the service menu and it worked?

540p can be obtained in a variety of ways, depending on your needs. Ive gotten it working fine with a GC running Swiss with 540p output selected, a MiSTer with a 540p modeline, and of course the RT5X. I understand the OSSC Pro has it as a choosable output as well.

I was able to enable it in the service menu and it worked. I haven't messed with it for awhile, but I was using a Raspberry Pi as a source. I made some 540p modelines and was running RetroArch on it.

The GameCube output sounds great though as that's an easy way (for me) to run 240p Test Suite.

Another easy way to test 540p is just to make a custom resolution from a PC to a component converter.

I think even the older graphics cards with component output can do 540p

Yeah, I did do some output from my laptop to the HDCRT when I was testing it, but I remember it just being more straightforward to use the Pi.

Honestly, I'm fairly certain it was properly enabled with the service menu because I distinctly remember there being a huge difference (only for 540p content) with it on or off, but it was like 5 years ago I last actually messed with it, so I should probably see what's up again and make sure it's still working as expected.

I remember having to tweak some of the settings because it wasn't working at first.

This was before I turned on the passthrough:

Spoiler

and this was after I got it "right":

Spoiler

You can pretty clearly see the first one has scaling artifacts, but PX3 in the second shot has the visible scanlines. It didn't have the visible scanlines until after I turned it on.

IIRC, there is actually a pretty clear line between the sets that have the components and the ones that don't (chronologically). My set was a pretty early run of them, first batch of the second gen HiScans. The first gen all had the components (and I believe they actually had the setting in the user menu?)

Sorry, again, it's been a long time, but I'm like 99% sure I got it working right in the end, and I was even messing around with differenet video output modes and shifting the image around on the screen by chaning the blanking periods, etc.

I do want to mess around with it again, but I'm in a pretty small apt right now, and it's in storage, so this is more of a "will do it in a couple years when I have the space" thing

[BazookaBen]

(and I believe they actually had the setting in the user menu?)

That would be really interesting, if you're talking about HDPT. Wonder would Sony would even call it and what it's purpose for the average consumer would be.

I know when people discovered the service menu setting on AVSForum ~18 years ago, the main purpose was to get lower input lag for their Xbox 360's and PS3's

[vol.2]

That would be really interesting, if you're talking about HDPT. Wonder would Sony would even call it and what it's purpose for the average consumer would be.

I know when people discovered the service menu setting on AVSForum ~18 years ago, the main purpose was to get lower input lag for their Xbox 360s and PS3s

This is what I'm remembering from those AVS posts from that time. The earliest HDCRTs from Sony actually had the option to turn it off. I read *all* of those posts whatever it is, like 5 years ago now, but I don't remember all the details perfectly.

There's waaaay too much for me to comb through right now, but this is ground zero:

https://www.avsforum.com/threads/signal ... 741/page-6

&

https://www.avsforum.com/threads/comput ... st-3303225

Skimming a few threads, I'm not longer positive that it's a specific setting in the menu, but rather it might have been that it turns it off in particular "modes" when enabled. The Cinemotion setting for example would turn it on because it uses 3:2 pulldown. Also, I seem to remember there being a difference between the 900 series TVs and the 800 series TVs, even from the outset.

[Josh128]

Sorry, again, it's been a long time, but I'm like 99% sure I got it working right in the end, and I was even messing around with differenet video output modes and shifting the image around on the screen by chaning the blanking periods, etc.

I do want to mess around with it again, but I'm in a pretty small apt right now, and it's in storage, so this is more of a "will do it in a couple years when I have the space" thing

Its very easy to tell if it works or not, because if it has the working circuitry, when you toggle the HDPT option, the screen will jump and you can see that it switches back and forth from interlaced to progressive. See video below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQtxv7Ztwy8

[vol.2]

Its very easy to tell if it works or not, because if it has the working circuitry, when you toggle the HDPT option, the screen will jump and you can see that it switches back and forth from interlaced to progressive. See video below:

Thanks, I'll check the next time I have a chance, but I seem to remember something like that. There was an obvious change. It's just been so long (5 years), and I've forgotten exactly the moment I did it.

[Devilsadvocate42]

Skimming a few threads, I'm not longer positive that it's a specific setting in the menu, but rather it might have been that it turns it off in particular "modes" when enabled. The Cinemotion setting for example would turn it on because it uses 3:2 pulldown. Also, I seem to remember there being a difference between the 900 series TVs and the 800 series TVs, even from the outset.

I have the Sony KV-40XBR700, myself and did not see the HDPT setting in the service menu after triple checking each setting.

With the TV on normally, I am however able to see this 'Cinemotion' setting by hitting the 'DRC' button above the Menu button on the remote or by hitting the Menu button > Video > changing the DRC mode to 'Cinemotion.'

I'll have to do more testing, but would this help achieve similar results to enabling HDPT on my model?

[vol.2]

I have the Sony KV-40XBR700, myself and did not see the HDPT setting in the service menu after triple checking each setting.

With the TV on normally, I am however able to see this 'Cinemotion' setting by hitting the 'DRC' button above the Menu button on the remote or by hitting the Menu button > Video > changing the DRC mode to 'Cinemotion.'

I'll have to do more testing, but would this help achieve similar results to enabling HDPT on my model?

You have to be able to turn the "DRC" completely off. I'm not familiar with that set, but it might be possible. It's early enough that it's before they started using the HDPT setting.

If you can't turn it off in the user menu or the service menu, then I wouldn't know where to go from there without reading all the old AVS Forum posts about them.

If you can turn it off, then you will be able to notice a big difference in the image when you do so. Assuming it's a 33kHz set, which I think all the Sonys are, you also have to feed it a 540p signal because it can't scan down to 480p.

[vol.2]

540p can be obtained in a variety of ways, depending on your needs. Ive gotten it working fine with a GC running Swiss with 540p output selected, a MiSTer with a 540p modeline, and of course the RT5X.

So to circle around back to this for a moment. What does the RT5X (and I assume the 4K?) exactly do with the signal before it gets output as 540p?

Does is output a 480p image centered in the middle of a 540p screen?

This is the approach I took with my Raspberry Pi 4; I just output 480p and increased the scan time so that I had black boxes around the whole image. I then just used the geometry controls on the TV to stretch the 480p image out to fit the screen.

Would a Retrotink basically do the same thing, and then I stretch the image to fit?

TIA

[Josh128]

540p can be obtained in a variety of ways, depending on your needs. Ive gotten it working fine with a GC running Swiss with 540p output selected, a MiSTer with a 540p modeline, and of course the RT5X.

So to circle around back to this for a moment. What does the RT5X (and I assume the 4K?) exactly do with the signal before it gets output as 540p?

Does is output a 480p image centered in the middle of a 540p screen?

This is the approach I took with my Raspberry Pi 4; I just output 480p and increased the scan time so that I had black boxes around the whole image. I then just used the geometry controls on the TV to stretch the 480p image out to fit the screen.

Would a Retrotink basically do the same thing, and then I stretch the image to fit?

TIA

Yes, that is what the 5X (with the 540p firmware) does. You have to stretch the raster via service menu options.

[vol.2]

Yes, that is what the 5X (with the 540p firmware) does. You have to stretch the raster via service menu options.

Okay. Cool thanks.

Does the 540p firmware come with other limitations? For example, does it only do 540p?

[Josh128]

Yes, that is what the 5X (with the 540p firmware) does. You have to stretch the raster via service menu options.

Okay. Cool thanks.

Does the 540p firmware come with other limitations? For example, does it only do 540p?

It is an earlier rev and thus is missing some of the newer pseudo-4K modes and some other features, but nothing that you will need for the 540p, 720p, or 1080p operation.

[vol.2]

It is an earlier rev and thus is missing some of the newer pseudo-4K modes and some other features, but nothing that you will need for the 540p, 720p, or 1080p operation.

Okay thanks. I guess with the 5X I wouldn't be targeting 4K, and I don't own a 4K display anyways. Eventually I'm going to get a 4K projector, but I'll deal with that when it happens.

[Bahn Yuki]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQ_jgFz4k5E

got it working on the Pixel FX Morph 4K. Incredible.

[Josh128]

NOICE!

[nathanmtesmer]

Hi! As a CRTV newbie; I picked one of these up a few years ago but haven’t done anything with the settings. Could you share what you did for your various console outputs?

[Josh128]

Thats a hell of a pickup for a "newbie", lol.

All my console outputs are either RGB or component or VGA. To get lagless input to the set, you need to feed one of the component inputs 540p from a scaler, (I use the RT5X with 540p firmware) which is fed by the consoles. You then need to set the service menu options as shown in my video below.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHoVm_aYd0w

[nathanmtesmer]

Thank you for sharing. I didn't realize a scaler was still needed for it. I was pretty excited when I saw the marketplace ad and googled the model no. Just never put two and two together that it could be better than default settings. My first marketplace pickup was a dud Toshiba CRTV so it wasn't my first. Is it true though that this tv is sub optimal for Gen 5 systems because it lacks scan lines (I have the S cable attachment)? My primary retro console is an N64 but I also have a PS2, Wii (Both with component cables), and the mini NES/SNES consoles (which use an HDMI). I'd be scared to modify the N64 for RGB output.

[vol.2]

I'd be scared to modify the N64 for RGB output.

In general, you might want to just use the stock inputs on Sony FD and don't worry too much about it.

I'm not trying to discourage you or tell you your limitations, but I want to impress that it's going to take a significant investment in both time and money to get where you want to go from where you currently are.

At the very minimum, you'll need to buy a fairly expensive scaling device, and then go poking around in the service menu, which is convoluted and hard to keep track of, and you can absolutely brick the TV completely and make it unusable if you change the wrong thing.

If you just want to get something that will display normal systems like the N64 in 240p with scanlines, go buy a non HD CRT and use one of those. That is the path of least resistance.

[Josh128]

Thank you for sharing. I didn't realize a scaler was still needed for it. I was pretty excited when I saw the marketplace ad and googled the model no. Just never put two and two together that it could be better than default settings. My first marketplace pickup was a dud Toshiba CRTV so it wasn't my first. Is it true though that this tv is sub optimal for Gen 5 systems because it lacks scan lines (I have the S cable attachment)? My primary retro console is an N64 but I also have a PS2, Wii (Both with component cables), and the mini NES/SNES consoles (which use an HDMI). I'd be scared to modify the N64 for RGB output.

Well, I'd say this is basically the ultimate consumer CRT ever created if you have one that has low hours with good geometry and convergence, and they are pretty rare these days, due to both their heft and the amount that was originally sold. That said, you absolutely need a scaler for this set to get the maximum performance from it if feeding it anything other than 1080i or 720p or 480p. Its performance is acceptable with any of those formats, but even those are suboptimal without a scaler. An RT5X or OSSC Pro is optimal for scalers for it.

What did you have to give for it if you dont mind my asking? Do you mind posting some pictures of your unit on this thread for documentation?

If you are not ready to dive into the world of console modding and retro-gaming centric video scalers (or a MisTer, which can output 540p on its own), you wont be able to fully appreciate this sets capabilities. Like Vol2 said above, it sounds like you just need to find a standard definition CRT TV with S-Video, component, and composite inputs. All your systems will work fine as in on one of those.

[nathanmtesmer]

I'm pretty sure it was $75-$100. Looking at the listing though it was a little longer ago than I thought. (Around 2019). Definitely remember the pain of moving it more than the price.

I'll admit I haven't really noticed the input lag that gets mentioned on the N64 (I know this is Mario Party2 in the photo but in other games like SM64 and OOT I don't seem to pick up on it). Not necessarily opposed to trying a scaler and adjusting options on a TV but just don't want to chance breaking anything on the console itself. Seems a waste not to try and optimize its performance given its rarity.

(Edit: my Iphone has never taken proper pictures of this in action, I swear it looks good in person)

[Josh128]

Nice, looks to be in good shape! FYI, you dont have to mod your consoles to use the RT5X. It will clean up composite quite a bit and S-Video looks great through it as well, plus, you can get great looking scanlines and zero lag on this set. The risk of messing something up on the service menu is extremely low, because you have to purposely save/write the settings with the remote, then power down the set in a well defined sequence. Literally, if you adjust the menu items I showed in the video I posted earlier, you cant go wrong.

N64 and other 240p systems look much better with scanlines, and other systems like PS2 can have perfect authentic interlacing when using an RT5X, and you eliminate all processing lag. Its really a no brainer if you can afford it, IMO. It will unlock the power of that set. Heck, if you have a Sega Genesis, you dont even need to mod it to get RGB, just get an RGB cable and you'll see it like youve never seen it before using only RF or its extremely shit composite output. If you havent already, you can see what it looks like via the RT5X in the photos I posted earlier in this thread.