Donpachi vs. Dodonpachi

llabnip · Post by **llabnip** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 3:38 pm

Neon wrote:They couldn't have done anything about the sound

Here we disagree. The Saturn sound is never great, but it doesn't need to be that bad. The sequel DDP got a better conversion sound-wise... at least as many sprites being pushed around, and similar sound effects/music and it gets things much cleaner. Granted, it's not going to sound as good as a PSX, but the sound conversion for SS DonPachi was just awful. There's a HUGE final explosion missing (and that's just lazy) from the 2nd stage boss... Everytime I don't hear the big blast in that section I want to rip the disc from the Saturn and toss it against the wall. Lots of other poorly placed cracks and pops during speech and music and explosions. It sounds as if they re-sampled all the effects using 2 imitation Dixie-cups and some shitty string. DDP got it better - so there was something that could have been done about it. And look at Radiant Silvergun - streaming music, voice during combat, explosions and various sound effects all playing while a ton of graphical manipulation is happening on screen. The sound will never be great on the Saturn, but the sound in DP could have been much improved with a bit of care.

Dylan1CC · Post by **Dylan1CC** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 4:09 pm

DDP all the way. As others have pointed out before, Donpachi has a nice "early Toaplan meets modern shooter" flavor to it. But there is no denying DDP improves on it in every way: pace, intensity, enemies, everything. It is to the series what Megaman 2 was to Megaman 1.

Neon · Post by **Neon** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 4:23 pm

llabnip wrote:Stuff about sound

Interesting point...but then Radiant Silvergun came out in 1998. DP is 95, maybe 96 for the conversion, which is I believe all pre-SS development library 2.0, not to mention the advances you can make in 2 years.

But it's more likely you're entirely correct and the conversion was hastily done by a much poorer, younger Cave farting out a port to keep the company afloat while Saturn was at it's hardest to program.

We can only speculate.

Valgar · Post by **Valgar** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 4:33 pm

DOJ because it has hypers and Namiki.

Post by **Dave_K.** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 5:43 pm

Gopher's Ambition wrote:Oh, DDP 2 for sure!

I think you mean DDP, as DDP 2 is the less insipred IGS/PGM remake of DDP.

freddiebamboo · Post by **freddiebamboo** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 6:59 pm

I always used to hate DP with a passion until it was on the weekly score competition a couple of months ago. Keeping yourself amused with chaining does help the first few levels go by without too much boredom and the last coupe of stages are a nice change of pace.

Those damn later bosses are seriously cheap though

DDP is still the better game IMO, even if I have learned to appreciate DP a bit more.

Post by **BulletMagnet** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 8:03 pm

Neon wrote:You should add 'Gradius Syndrome' to the glossary if you haven't ^_~

Hee hee, I've considered it, though I'm not sure it's quite "official" enough.

Cheap, quarter munching bit of game design, though once it happens to you it shouldn't happen again. These should be memorized along with bee locations, for sure.

I understand what you mean, but in pretty much any game where this sort of thing happens (not just DP, obviously) I can never quite bring myself to "reconcile" with it, especially if it's supposed to be a "manic" game, as opposed to an R-Type or something like that...having to memorize chains or bee locations is one thing, since they're pretty much optional when you're playing for just a 1CC, but having your lives stolen away from you on a regular basis just never sat well with me overall. Again, though, of course, others mind it less than I do.

Well, wait option adjusts slowdown. Wait on will make the PS slow down in the same spots as the arcade - I'm talking about overall game speed.

If you haven't tried it in awhile, you might want to have another look: while you're correct in saying that turning "wait" on adds very noticeable slowdown to certain spots, it also seems to lower the overall game speed a bit. It might take a bit to "kick in" after you first enable it, since it's unfortunately not saved after turning the game off (as in, if you pause and turn the setting on in level 1, it should definitely be noticeable by level 2, though I'm not positive about this), but it's definitely evident after playing for a bit. Listen to where the music is at at certain points in the stage, with wait "on" as compared to "off."

Randorama · Post by **Randorama** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 8:53 pm

Oh no not this thread again ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

:Munchsscream:

or:

/O_O\

Neon · Post by **Neon** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 9:10 pm

Randorama wrote:Oh no not this thread again ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

:Munchsscream:

or:

/O_O\

You metrosexual bastard. Here I've been looking forward to your input the whole time. I'm shifting my fanboyism entirely to Icarus from here on.

We've had this thread before?

Post by **Icarus** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 9:16 pm

I love both, and both are incredibly anal in their chaining systems. The only difference is, Dodonpachi wants you to chain from start to finish, and fucks your score up royally if you make a mistake, while Donpachi wants you to chain in short, aggressive, well-thought-out bursts.

Besides, Ketsui took a bit from Donpachi with the short chains system. Ketsui just made it a lot more risky ^_-

Randorama · Post by **Randorama** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 9:49 pm

Yeah, in alternate forms *adjucts pink shirt*

At any case, the whole issue DP vs DDP makes me quite puzzled. DP has less coherent level design ( but we're speaking of a 9++ vs DDP's 10, if i give you the idea), as the pace is less stable in stages 1-3, while stages 4 and 5 have the seeds of Cave's future ingenuity. Gameplay systems are quite different, and both have their adamantine solidity (but DP has a deeper interaction between score and rank). Graphics and Sound are nothing special in both (i mean, Rayforce in 1994, Sokyugurentai in 1996...and i don't want to mention Xexex and Metal Black, done in 1991!).

I think that Cave has basically used these two prototypes for their two parallel approaches: short chains and heavy shift on strategies in DP (Esp.Ra.De,Progear,Ketsui,Esp.Galuda II), and "lighter" strategy in favour of a rigorous chaining approach in DDP (DOJ,Guwange,Mushihime, Dangun).

Ibara is Raizing and metrosexual so no nifty analogies for you

Zweihander · Post by **Zweihander** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 2:45 pm

DDP ftw.

Post by **system11** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 3:13 pm

I prefer Donpachi - it has more vitality to it - like the team knew they were starting something new, and of course - they did. It's a shame both games have really, really unbelievably shitty audio though. Horribly downsampled audio loops for teh win (not).

Post by **system11** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 3:15 pm

Randorama wrote: Ibara is Raizing and metrosexual so no nifty analogies for you

Every time someone uses that word, god kills 200 kittens /and/ a shmup programmer - so just don't.

Randorama · Post by **Randorama** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 5:51 pm

bloodflowers wrote:
Randorama wrote: Ibara is Raizing and metrosexual so no nifty analogies for you
Every time someone uses that word, god kills 200 kittens /and/ a shmup programmer - so just don't.

Post by **Icarus** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 5:53 pm

bloodflowers wrote:Every time someone uses that word, god kills 200 kittens /and/ a shmup programmer - so just don't.

Well, according to this thread, a few thousand kittens and a devhouse worth of programmers are dead. ^_-

I'm not going to say it though. I actually like kittens.

gabrielesquaratti · Post by **gabrielesquaratti** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 12:02 am

superhitachi4 wrote:I love both games, and couldn't really bad mouth either honestly. I tend to play DDP a little more than DP, but as far as choosing one or the other...it really depends on the day. As far as the Saturn conversion of DDP goes (haven't played the DP conversion), it does have much to be desired in terms of quality.

just for explosions?saturn DDP version is better than the ps1 version because...the saturn controller is one of the best pad for shmups(beside arcade sticks)
i don't care if a conversion is arcade perfect if the pad is kinda hard and tiring to use.

trap15 · Post by **trap15** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 12:17 am

Holy shit an 8 year bump what the fuck.

CStarFlare · Post by **CStarFlare** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 12:18 am

At least his priorities are well sorted.

professor ganson · Post by **professor ganson** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 1:19 am

I like Donpachi better myself. Terrific old-school feel to it. Lovely graphics. Nice introductory shmup.

Furry Fox Jet Pilot · Post by **Furry Fox Jet Pilot** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 2:47 am

Dodonpachi easily takes my vote over Donpachi here. It's a simple case of the sequel taking everything the original did and improving it/tweaking it in a good way. And the music is WAY better. I love that heavy guitar usage. As I pointed out in the favorite shmup music thread, there is no denying that 0:33-0:46 in Dodonpachi's Stage 3 sounds just like the guitar solo at 5:31-6:00 from the song "Dementia" by the band ERRA.

plasticxo · Post by **plasticxo** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 11:11 am

DP is the link between old-school & manic (as much as Batsugun) and is the most Toaplan-ish of Cave's game (though I had fun reading the Cave facts about Donpachi here).
DDP has done so much for the evolution of the genre, it's a revolution in itself.

Difficult to decide between the two, but I gave my vote to Donpachi, because it still needs more love as of today.

PAPER/ARTILLERY · Post by **PAPER/ARTILLERY** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 4:30 pm

trap15 wrote:Holy shit an 8 year bump what the fuck.

RISE FROM YOUR GRAVE

shmups.system11.org

Donpachi vs. Dodonpachi

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