I need advice about X-Men comics!

[Neo Rasa]

That version's perfectly fine.

You should get Frank Miller's Ronin also though, or instead.

[NTSC-J]

NTSC-J: I could argue that you didn't get all of Ronin if you don't think it's in the same league as Watchmen, I respect both books a lot (even if I do think Watchmen is vastly overrated).

I guess I'll have to give Ronin another go then, admittedly it has been a few years. I liked Miller's style, but found it overall forgettable. Worth another look tho.

And yea, I can see how Watchmen is overrated, since most hold it up as the Holy Grail of comics, but for once I think the hype is deserved. Incidentally, I still don't get wtf is the big deal with The Dark Knight Returns, it isn't that great. It's cool, but Year One and Killing Joke are the definitive Batman.

My interest has been piqued. Is this a good versionof Watchmen to get? Also, I wouldn't mind getting a copy of that thesis, Kane... erh, NTSC-J.

Good man:). I've converted many into Watchmen faithfuls over the years, I'm like a Bible salesman with that thing. That paperback looks just fine, mine is almost exactly the same, however they just released the "Definitive Watchmen" which is a gorgeous, giant hardbound version with some extra shit thrown in. The price is a hefty $75 but it might be worth it. I can't spare the cash for my own copy. Although on second thought, Amazon has it for under 50, so I would recommend getting it after all. I know that's a bit of an investment for something you haven't read yet, but I'm going to wager that you'll want it at some point.

Here's the annotations btw.

Are there any other graphical novels worth a look at? I'd heard good things about The Complete Maus: A Survivor's Tale. Although I suppose that might not be the same type of graphical novel.

There's plenty!

Miracleman, like I said earlier, is really Moore's shining achievement, and while Gibbons' art in Watchmen is one of my biggest inspirations, some of the art done in Miracleman is just stunning (they rotated artists over the series). Moore wrote the first 16 issues, with Sandman's Gaimen finishing up the final seven, which are actually also very very good.

MM single issues can be found on ebay for decent prices, but the notorious 15th issue (which happens to be my favorite) costs a mint due to a low print run (it was deemed "too graphic" apparently, and it really is some burly stuff). I lucked out and found a paperback collection of Gaimen's run at a comic shop and got it for cover price, but online the paperback's sell for several hundred apiece.

However, I have issues 9-17 scanned on my computer. It sucks not being able to hold it in your hands, but it's better than nothing. I'd email them to you, but it's 60megs. I'll try uploading it to yousendit.com later if you want. If you have a good printer you can make your own collection.

Anyways, more comics:

Maus is a good read for sure, can't go wrong there especially if you don't know much about the holocaust.

Berserk, as I mentioned, is the king of manga and is now being translated. I think they're at vol.9, although there are 29 currently out. It's nerdy to admit, but I originally started to learn Japanese because of this series.

Akira is good, at least for the art. Story is hit and miss.

Ghost in the Shell isn't very good, you're better off getting a Shirow art book or something.

Sin City is sexist garbage, but it's well drawn garbage so I'll let you decide.

The Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles #35, 36 and 38. Yea you heard me, TMNT had some kick ass shit back in the day. And I'm not talking about the Archie publications, I mean the original B&W's. For a while they had artists do their own versions of the series, and these three issues are fucking badass. The turtles don't have names, they're giant hulking brutes that live to serve Splinter and what follows is a gory war with ninjas in the snow and a surreal journey into the underworld. The art is brilliant, these are not pizza-eating jokers like in the cartoon, for sure.

For some humor, try Flaming Carrot. Weird and funny and always original. PaCrappa will back me up on this one.

There's more, but that should keep you busy for at least a few rainy afternoons.

[Neo Rasa]

Man I loved the original Turtles comics. What Archie did with the material was a joke, but I guess needed since they wanted the franchise to be for kids.

I thought it was cool how the live action movie was adapted more from the comics than from the cartoon/newer comics.

Ghost in the Shell isn't very good, you're better off getting a Shirow art book or something.


THANK YOU.


I think one of the reasons I love Ronin is how much raw emotion is conveyed through the artwork. The story is very tight also, I pick up little tidbits of it that make it make more sense and bring further depth to it every time I read it.

I never formally researched it, but I would think it was extremely influential to a lot of manga producers as well.

[mannerbot]

Thanks a lot NTSC-J.

I might take you up on the Miraclemen offer someday, but I should probably start at the beginning. I'll make sure to check out The Flaming Carrot and Watchmen (probably the paperback first).

[Ghegs]

Probably not in the same league as anything NTSC-J mentioned (I need to check the local stores for Watchmen), but I really enjoyed Preacher and Transmetropolitan.

[NTSC-J]

Yea I just recalled a few more worth checking out, Preacher being among them. It's pretty shameless most of the time and the quality kind of dips towards the end, but the first 20 issues are about as entertaining as comics can get. It's genuinely funny, Dillon and Ennis work well together. The story arc with Jesse's origin is one of the greatest of all time, I swear.

One of my favorite series as a teen was Savage Dragon. When Image first came out, I of course went to Spawn first but today realize that Todd McFarlane sucks. I tried Savage Dragon at random one day, starting with issue 7 and was blown away. That issue in particular is intense and a great read, but the series up until issue 50 or so is classic. Completely unpredictable and funny, in issue 40-something a long-running character (from issue 6 I think) got her legs fried off out of nowhere and remained a parapeligic through the rest of the series. None of this resurrection/cloning/time travel shit that makes you buy a "death" issue only to see them come back a month later with a new costume. Unfortunately, Erik Larsen one day got the urge to make the comic in 60s Marvel style, and it got old fast. But the first 50 are a hell of a ride.

[it290]

Transmetropolitan is great, one of my favorite comics. Awesome setting and characters, and it doesn't take itself too seriously.

One series that does take itself too seriously (some of the time) is The Invisibles, but I still enjoyed it quite a bit, even if the art is pretty weak at times and the whole thing reeks of the early 90's.

And for another Alan Moore recommendation, give From Hell a try. Nothing like the shitty movie, it's rather entertaining, particularly if you like Victorian stuff and / or Jack the Ripper.

[Neo Rasa]

I of course went to Spawn first but today realize that Todd McFarlane sucks.

I think we all went through this phase at some point. There are a lot of people I've practically bonded with completely over mutual hatred of Todd McFarlane and how ashamed we are of thinking Spawn was the greatest thing ever when it first came out.

And yet, like a car accident, I try to see him any chance I get. The guy's ego makes him hilarious to see interviewed.

Remember "Respect," that one page "essay" he wrote in the back of the first issue of Spawn or whatever? I remember it, because he mentions it every time he speaks like it's the God damn Magna Carta of comics.

[NTSC-J]

While searching for any news on Miracleman being reprinted (still doesn't sound like it'll happen, thanks again Todd McFarlane), I found this. Watchmen apparently made Time magazine's 100 best novels list. Not that I give a shit about Time, but I'm surprised to see them put this on there alongside standards like Lord of the Flies and Animal Farm. It's the only graphic novel on there too. Kudos to Time.

[Neon]

Maus is a good read for sure, can't go wrong there especially if you don't know much about the holocaust.

Ah, you beat me to it. Read both books in one sitting, couldn't stop. Excellent.

OT but I thought Lord of the Flies was great too.

Wish I had something useful to say...keep the recommendations coming please.

Did anyone read Neil Gaiman's Sandman? My ex was crazy about that.

[MadSteelDarkness]

Did anyone read Neil Gaiman's Sandman? My ex was crazy about that.

Yep. It seems to have it's fair share of female fans, but I liked it too. The first few issues had a very EC comics feel to them, thanks to Sam Keith's artwork, but the series quickly found it's own identity. It might not be up to the standards of the greats, but it's still a good read, in my opinion. The storyline where Dream gets the key to hell was probably my favorite.

Sin City is sexist garbage, but it's well drawn garbage so I'll let you decide.

True that. I know the series has its' fans, but man. Although I enjoy most of Miller's other works (and can, for the most part, forgive Miller's misogynist tendencies), Sin City really put me off.

Transmetropolitan was pretty great. Very seditious, with a heavy debt to the late Hunter S. Thompson. Have any of you gents checked out Warren Ellis's Global Frequency? Good, fast paced, self-contained action yarns, with a huge, revolving cast of characters. I think it would have made a hell of a TV show.

Oh, and has anyone else picked up Ellis's newest series, Fell? Quite good.

And yeah, it's a guilty pleasure, but I dig Eric Powell's The Goon, mostly for the artwork and design.

[BrianC]

Maus is a good read for sure, can't go wrong there especially if you don't know much about the holocaust.

Ah, you beat me to it. Read both books in one sitting, couldn't stop. Excellent.

I wish I had to read Maus for a homework assignment like my sister did.

[NTSC-J]

Wish I had something useful to say...keep the recommendations coming please.

With pleasure!

Hard Boiled and Big Guy and Rusty the Boy Robot:

I'm not sure if anyone remembers the easily forgettable Big Guy and Rusty cartoon series that was on Fox a couple years ago, but it was based off of a two-issue series by Frank Miller and Geof Darrow. Miller writes it, but there really isn't much of a story there, the real star is Darrow. This guy is unreal. If you think you've seen detail, you haven't seen what this guy does. Both issues are collected in one volume, and is inexpensive, a must-read really. Fun Godzilla-fights that are larger than life.

Now Hard Boiled is the latter series' evil brother. It came some years before, and again, features a non-sensical plot by Miller and wicked Darrow art. However, it is very very very nasty and violent and will offend most everyone. i.e....it rules! Every page will surprise you and it's a fun ride all the way. Miller said about it, "I offended all the right people". Good work. It's only 3-issues and is inexpensive. I got it when I was 15 or so at a comic con and did a double-take after the first few pages. A car smashes the hero through a wall and falls down onto an orgy pit with people with chainsaws cutting each other up, and everyone gets crushed or shot up or maimed or fucked or something. And that's all within the first few pages. This is a comic that will put hair on your chest.

Incidentally, I've heard the Wachowski brothers are making a movie of it, but good luck. Without Darrow, there's nothing there.

BTW, the TMNT comics I recommended earlier were the wrong issues. It's actually #31, 35, and 36.

[Randorama]

I suggest to everyone the following Manga: the story of the three Adolfs, by Osamu Tezuka; Apple Seed, by Masamune Shirow; Nausicaa, by Hayao Miyazaki. Corto Maltese by Hugo Pratt is also on of my fondest readings, but i suppose it's hard to find around. Anything by Moebius and Bilal is also great, but frankly, they're excellent visionnaires, true plots are somewhere else.Any story by Igort (Igor Tuveri) is also good, but you seriously need a good importer for those.

While not a masterpiece, i remember "The unknown soldier" by Garth Ennis (and someone else) to be a nice series.Maybe i liked it because of its content...

The sandman was well-done ( i liked the "brief lives" arc), but honestly, there's a time and place for teenage angst and wannabe dark/goth attitude.That's why i probably liked "Brief lives". Oh, OMAC by Byrne was also quite cool, in its naiveté.

Starman has its coolness too, and Transmetropolitan is "the adventures of Hunter Thompson" in the future (with good ol' doctor Gonzo being somewhat puzzled by the existence of this comic, after being a Doonesbury character for ages).

300 by Miller, perhaps? Gave me mixed sensations, but surely it's rather interesting.

The invisibles were cool as well, as long as you skipped the fact that Grant Morrison believed in what he wrote. That are a few more things i'm surely missing, but i think that well, there aren't too many good things in this medium, the noise/signal percentage is rather high, in my opinion.


Ah, and the freak brothers and Andrea Pazienza (italian author in a similar vein). Thanks Dad, for letting me read those while i was a kid

[Randorama]

I also find embarassing that no one (including me) has mentioned "Nausicaa in the valley of the wind" so far.Just finished reading it again, it should be one or one million times better than any of stuff mentioned so far.

[Turrican]

I also find embarassing that no one (including me) has mentioned "Nausicaa in the valley of the wind" so far.Just finished reading it again, it should be one or one million times better than any of stuff mentioned so far.

You skipped it, BrianC mentioned it on page 1.

By the way, I did read 99% of what you mentioned - I suppose I lack some knowledge on the French side. The only Bilal red so far is "The Hunt", and "Phalanx of the Black Order" <- don't trust my crappy translation attempts.

[Randorama]

I have personal problems with most french/English authors - namely, the seem unable to build up coherent plots. Moebius is a tad better, but overall it shares this feature with the other to some extent.Bilal is one those guys: most of his works are really more about incredible settings and visionary ideas, and that's it. However, since if you put together French and Belgian production, they top japanese one (!!!), you clearly have a lot of things going on.
The true problem is that you need people who know their stuff, and i don't have the faintest idea on who covers this kind of material in Italy...surely Alessandro Distribuzioni or the Comic Art guys, if they still exist, but there are an infinity of good things that can be covered. Ah, speaking of which, Igort's works should still be top-notch, but i haven't checked what he's doing lately
El eternauta was a great and visionary comic as well. Actually, Harlock's manga was great too...



...and the BVZM is the *best* serialized comic ever

[NTSC-J]

I'm ashamed to admit that I know little about the French comic scene, but I've read some Heavy Metal and some of those guys are out of control. Rando is spot on here: the plots blow, but the visions and landscapes are incredible. Some of these guys are second to none in terms of quality of draftsmanship.

Re: Unknown Soldier - Again, I had the same reaction as Rando. I think I ended up liking it for the art alone, but it's Garth Ennis' writing so it's at least entertaining. Tim Bradstreet was the artist? Don't remember, but the guy rocks.

300 is great too. "We're impossibly outnumbered. Their arrows will block out the sun." Leonidas turns to him, "Then we'll fight in the shade." Wicked, he actually said that shit (read it in Greek lit a few years ago...I marked out when I saw it). History through comics is an untapped market (fuck Classics Illustrated).

[Randorama]

This reminds me...

Neil Gaiman wrote a couple of stand-alone numbers of Sandman with Brian Talbot: one "omg dark love and lost hopes" about Orpheus, and and incredible masterpiece on Augustus, the founder of the Roman Empire. He received an award for his Orpheus work, and in an interview he was rather pissed of this: he thought that his chronicle of Augustus' single day as a beggar (something reported by Svetonius, actually) was far, far superior in terms of everything (i.e. storytelling, orchestration, drawings, theme,etc) than the usually tragic love story.

I happen to agree: i think that actually, with some bit of research of course, these peculiar aspects of History would make a perfect plot for brilliant story-telling, let alone the single dramatic episodes.

By the way, i recommend Luther Arkwright by Brian Talbot as well, even if the plot seems to be a regurgitation of Moorcock's ideas. The latter must be one of the most copied authors ever, though, i'm noticing how many parallels between Nausicaa's world and Hawkmoon's world there are (which is nothing short of hilarious, if you know the genesis of this sub-cycle of the Eternal champion)

Ah, there's an adjective for people who don't speak too much, "Laconic" (i suppose it's rather archaic/rare in English). This comes from Laconia, the region of Sparta, and it is said that it was created in analogy of Leonidas' syntheticity...The persian messengers went to Sparta and said a thing like "If we come here we'll lay waste, destroy, mangle, etc (a lot of stuff)" and his reply was simply...


"If".


That THE one-liner