Shameless self-spam: The Gradius edition

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Randorama
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Re: We all lead a post-modern life!!1!

Post by Randorama »

Turrican wrote:
2 weeks? Four years is more like it.

http://kelesis.free.fr/hp/compile/index_eng.htm
Uhmmm, then it must be N-Sub or Borderline :? Zaphod knows, i remember him mentioning a Compile title of 1983, when mentioning the first appearance of rank. If this is not the case ( i can't access any Compile title, personally), then Xevious should be the first title with rank.

Any other Compile experts (i.e. Shatterhand, do you know by chance?) can shed light on this?
"The only desire the Culture could not satisfy from within itself was one common to both the descendants of its original human stock and the machines [...]: the urge not to feel useless."

I.M. Banks, "Consider Phlebas" (1988: 43).
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Icarus
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Post by Icarus »

Rev. Stuart Campbell wrote:Well, what about something that at least had some vague relevance in English to what it's describing? "AI Adjustment", say. "Rank" already has at least three shmup-related meanings (four if you count using it to describe Thunder Force games), using the word to mean a fourth thing (which has nothing to do with any known definition of "rank") only confuses matters. As we've just seen.
Difficulty adjustment systems have been around since year dot, and have always played a part in upping the challenge based on various factors, such as player performance, weapon power levels, length of time played on current life and so on. Older games had a more simple approach to these systems, and were usually based on survival - the longer you stayed alive, the harder the game became.

When powerups were introduced, these systems started to become more complex. Now, these "rank" systems would not only be based on survival, but your level of power, and a later stages in games would be different in difficulty depending on your performance up to that point - stay alive on your first life, and stay fully powered up, and watch twice the volume of bullets be fired at your ship.

Gradius, for example, does feature a simple "rank" system, that is tied to survival and the powered up state of your ship. From playing experience I've noticed that enemy resilience (how much damage they can take before being destroyed), enemy bullet speed and firing rate increases quite dramatically when you reach full powered-up state, as opposed to a more sedate difficulty increase if you have but one Option less. Because of that, I have a tendency to play the game with a maximum of three Options equipped, just to temper the difficulty and make the game more manageable.

The modern approach is still similar to the classic approach, with "rank" systems determined by power level and survival rate among other factors, but there is a recent exception to this rule. Raizing. This company developed some of the most complex, convoluted "rank" systems ever seen, with difficulty affected by all manner of different factors, from the amount of bullets fired by your ship, to the amount of bombs you use, to the amount of items you pick up. Raizing also allowed players to freely manipulate the "rank" system using various means, such as keeping your weapon power levels down (Soukyugurentai), or by suiciding (Battle Garegga). As I discussed here at the forum, Raizing's systems always attempted to force the player to learn to play for score.

(By the way, Raizing lives. Ibara comes out in February. You can soon experience complex difficulty adjustment systems firsthand on your PS2 ^_-)

As fot the actual term "rank", the Japanese have been calling these variable difficulty systems "rank systems" for some time. An entry from the Battle Garegga Handbook: http://www.vgmaterials.com/handbook/basis/rank.htm

Further discussions on rank systems at the forum, here:
http://forum.shmups.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5336
http://forum.shmups.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3466
http://forum.shmups.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3926
http://forum.shmups.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2078
http://forum.shmups.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=351
http://forum.shmups.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1186
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Rev. Stuart Campbell
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Post by Rev. Stuart Campbell »

Thunder Force wrote:
PeePo wrote:So go fuck yourself, cockwipe.
Your conduct is not in accordance with the Forum Rules. Please restrain your behavior as repeat of such posts could lead to your loss of access to this site. To clarify - disagreeing with people here is fine, but an excessively abusive attitude towards shmups.com members is not acceptable. This gaming community is not a place to vent your anger. If you are unable to interact in a civil way, there are several other videogame forums on the internet that have more lenient rules of conduct. This is just a light warning.
You know where you can shove your light warning, don't you? At such times as you warn other people for being - unprovokedly - rude to me, I'll pay attention. Until then, I'll act in accordance with the way other people act towards me, and if you want to exercise a hypocritical double standard about it by banning me, I'll try not to cry too hard.
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Turrican
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Post by Turrican »

At least we can say goodbye to "Peepo" ^_^

Does rev. mean reverend or reviewer?
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system11
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Post by system11 »

Rev. Stuart Campbell wrote:
Thunder Force wrote:
PeePo wrote:So go fuck yourself, cockwipe.
Your conduct is not in accordance with the Forum Rules. Please restrain your behavior as repeat of such posts could lead to your loss of access to this site. To clarify - disagreeing with people here is fine, but an excessively abusive attitude towards shmups.com members is not acceptable. This gaming community is not a place to vent your anger. If you are unable to interact in a civil way, there are several other videogame forums on the internet that have more lenient rules of conduct. This is just a light warning.
You know where you can shove your light warning, don't you? At such times as you warn other people for being - unprovokedly - rude to me, I'll pay attention. Until then, I'll act in accordance with the way other people act towards me, and if you want to exercise a hypocritical double standard about it by banning me, I'll try not to cry too hard.
If you have a problem with a moderator, take it to another moderator as per the rules agreed to by using this board. For reference, TF was right to warn you for that, and I don't want to see this kind of response again.
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Randorama
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Post by Randorama »

And since another debate on what rank is and whatnot has sneaked in (and i'm off-topic in my own thread :lol:), Icarus: do you know, by chance, who introduced the term around these parts?
"The only desire the Culture could not satisfy from within itself was one common to both the descendants of its original human stock and the machines [...]: the urge not to feel useless."

I.M. Banks, "Consider Phlebas" (1988: 43).
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Shatterhand
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Post by Shatterhand »

I'll say it again, the only one who was offensive and rude to you was me, when you weren't a member of this forum. What I said was based upon your behaviour at EAB.... and I keep what I've said based upon your behaviour here.

BEFORE you signed up here, you even had some fans here. Someone even called you "The best games journalist" or something to that effect.

You are making a great job in losing any respect you may had among the users here. If I ever had any respect for you, it's because at some time you were connected to Sensible Software, which stands as one of the most amazing softwarehouses ever. I wonder if Chris Chapman and Jon Hare were as annoying as you are. Other than that, I still think that you are a shithead, as I said in the other thread (And like I said, you've been keep on proving my point). Many users here DIDN'T think of you like that, though you are making a great job of changing this.

I am NOT the whole forum. I am just a single user here, my opinion do NOT reflect the opinion of all the others users here. Of course, if you could register here, chat about shmups in a civilized way, and show that you are NOT a troll, my opinion about you could have changed.

How can you say Elvis was rude to you? He didn't say anything rude to you, not even when you directly attacked and offended him. I still haven't see anyone else attacking or being rude to you, EVEN when attacked by you.

Now, if you want to go on and direspect everyone else, go ahead and see if you can make anything useful out of. If you have a problem with me, take it to PMs, talk to another mod about that, or even talk directly to me, but do not attack everyone in a forum because of what I think of you.

Thunder Force has already warned you. That's the last time I'll talk openly about your conduct. If you want to openly express your opinion about me, so you can "get even", do it, then shut up. If not, then respect the forum rules or leave. Your behaviour is already way out of what's tolerated here.


About Compile... I have never played Borderline... I've been looking for the MSX version for a while without luck... I've been thinking about looking for the SG-1000 version, as they both should be identica, but the SG-1000 version seems to be more popularl. Now Borderline was developed under the Sega belt (Like Gulkave was). I really find hard to believe this game already had some kind of rank system on it... this was their FIRST game ever, as far as I know. Anyway, I'll do some research on this.

Anyway, Exa Innova is a vere early shmup from them which came after borderline, and it doesn't have any rank feature - or at least I've never noticed (But it does have lots of features that would become common in their later shmups)
So what we're saying is, Gradius simultaneously pioneered the idea of adding lots of powerups onto your ship, and the idea of making those powerups completely pointless by increasing the difficulty when you get them...?
It's not pointless. The idea is indeed to balance the game, but if you power up your ship, you have bigger chances to score but as a payoff you also have a bigger chance to die. As an example, the "semi-boss" of level 2 is a lot easier if you have just your pea-shooter than if you have laser and 4 options, but as there are more enemies to shoot, you make more points. And this is in Gradius... in modern games the system is often much more complex.

That's the idea in nearly all shmups that do have a rank system... if you want to score well, you have to take the game at its most furious difficulty level.
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Rev. Stuart Campbell
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Post by Rev. Stuart Campbell »

bloodflowers wrote: If you have a problem with a moderator, take it to another moderator as per the rules agreed to by using this board. For reference, TF was right to warn you for that, and I don't want to see this kind of response again.
So where was the warning when I was called a "shithead" on the other thread, before I'd posted a single word here?

And, indeed, again directly above this post. I wait keenly to see if one arrives, or if this place does indeed perpetrate the double standards it appears to.
Rev. Stuart Campbell
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Post by Rev. Stuart Campbell »

Shatterhand wrote: How can you say Elvis was rude to you? He didn't say anything rude to you,
In what way is calling someone "a troll, petty, childish and petulant" not rude?
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system11
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Post by system11 »

Shatterhand wrote:Other than that, I still think that you are a shithead, as I said in the other thread (And like I said, you've been keep on proving my point).
Sorry Shatter, as a moderator you can't shout at Stuart for his behaviour here, then in the same breath break the rules yourself....

This thread is making me sad, lots of petty sniping and bickering from multiple people who should know better. I'm locking it now.
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