Creating a Sony BKM-129X compatible board

[skum]

Wait until you've owned 4 or 5 BVM-D9's and D14's)...and you'll see that they can each have individual issues with certain consoles. I've had one Sega Genesis for example work perfect on one D9, then plug it into another D9, with the SAME EXACT console, cables, game, and 129x card...and it'll do funky things. Think SNES (which is usually perfect) and of course TG16/PCE are other weird ones. And yes, I totally know this makes zero sense.

...so I don't know if a fix in this new 129x repro card would work for all of them as I don't know what exactly the problem is (or if it's the same problem on one D9 vs. another D9 or what).

Sidebar: VCR mode is actually in the BVM-D9's circuitry and menu (and assume D14's too), but is turned off when the 129x card is used - it does work on my BKM-127W cards just fine for composite or S-Video.

It indeed sounds like a like there's something weird going on, but it also means that getting one to test on doesn't make sense AS It sounds like a lottery (It doesn't seem easy available to me geographically anyways).

[skum]

So I finally fixed up a board, and it works a charm (for my PVM-9L2 at least) at around $25.


More on that here: https://immerhax.com/?p=459

Get busy soldering!

[Listai]

So I finally fixed up a board, and it works a charm (for my PVM-9L2 at least) at around $25.

This is amazing! - I need one of these for my 20L2. Unfortunately producing the hardware is a little beyond me so I'll have to wait until someone offers complete units. Amazing work! I was about to drop some serious cash on some RGB cables but instead I'm going to wait it out and use this as a second input for my component consoles.

[SuperSpongo]

Simply awesome work, thank you very much!

[skum]

So just to give update here also. The board has now been tested om some more monitors and so the software and hardware has been modified a few times to fix "quirks" that were brought into light, especially by the BVM-D9H and D14H. Mainly it seems the Arduino should be programmed "directly", meaning with a programmer, to increase the boot speed (because the bootloader that allows software uploading through USB slows boot down considerably). I made a post about turning another Nano into a programmer (ISP) that can be used for this here: https://immerhax.com/?p=480

The updated software can be found on the Github.

On the hardware side, basically the only one change seems necessary, and that is bridging resistor R9 (so either use wire or a 0 Ohm 0805 "resistor"/jumper). I would guess that lower resistors in the 10-33 Ohm range would work also, but this is untested.

[Listai]

The updated software can be found on the Github.

On the hardware side, basically the only one change seems necessary, and that is bridging resistor R9 (so either use wire or a 0 Ohm 0805 "resistor"/jumper). I would guess that lower resistors in the 10-33 Ohm range would work also, but this is untested.

Will these software and hardware updates be reflected in the boards where people paid for assembly?

[skum]

The updated software can be found on the Github.

On the hardware side, basically the only one change seems necessary, and that is bridging resistor R9 (so either use wire or a 0 Ohm 0805 "resistor"/jumper). I would guess that lower resistors in the 10-33 Ohm range would work also, but this is untested.

Will these software and hardware updates be reflected in the boards where people paid for assembly?

I am in contact with Nick, and although I as such have nothing to do with the group buy thing, I know they'll be incorporated (he's been a part of testing also, so...)

[Listai]

The updated software can be found on the Github.

On the hardware side, basically the only one change seems necessary, and that is bridging resistor R9 (so either use wire or a 0 Ohm 0805 "resistor"/jumper). I would guess that lower resistors in the 10-33 Ohm range would work also, but this is untested.

Will these software and hardware updates be reflected in the boards where people paid for assembly?

I am in contact with Nick, and although I as such have nothing to do with the group buy thing, I know they'll be incorporated (he's been a part of testing also, so...)

Sorry I got my wires crossed - thanks for letting me know though! I'm really looking forward to putting the card through its paces on my 20L2!

[skum]

Sorry I got my wires crossed - thanks for letting me know though! I'm really looking forward to putting the card through its paces on my 20L2!

Pretty sure it'll just work. 20L2 must be quite the same as the 9L2 which is the monitor I developed with (as it's the only 129X compatible monitor I have). However everybody who gets these as such should be prepared for issues, when I say I know they'll be incorporated, I can't be 100% sure in case of what he's already assembled and so on. The hardware "fix" is *really* easy to incorporate yourself though, as long as you have a soldering iron, but for now seems only necessary on D9 However we should hopefully get everything running over time. Since the newest changes mainly relate to the D9 and D14 which apparently are quite picky, I am quite confident that the rest should basically just work. I have incorporated every change and tested on my 9L2s with zero issues.

[Listai]

Sorry I got my wires crossed - thanks for letting me know though! I'm really looking forward to putting the card through its paces on my 20L2!

Pretty sure it'll just work. 20L2 must be quite the same as the 9L2 which is the monitor I developed with (as it's the only 129X compatible monitor I have). However everybody who gets these as such should be prepared for issues However we should hopefully get everything running over time. Since the newest changes mainly relate to the D9 and D14 which apparently are quite picky, I am quite confident that the rest should basically just work. I have incorporated every change and tested on my 9L2s with zero issues.

That's great to hear! - here's hoping its all smooth sailing but I'm happy to contribute to testing any way I can once my unit arrives. I even picked up some HD Retrovision Wii cables just for the occasion!

[RGB0b]

I just posted my overview of it for anyone interested: https://www.retrorgb.com/testing-the-bk ... board.html

[xihuang]

I just realized that the 129x card I use on my 9" BVM has the same exact sync issues as the BKM68x. Maybe a future rev of this card can include some kind of sync regeneration that ads the "VCR mode" the other BVM input cards use which fix the horizontal sync slice issue?

Now, I completely realize that's a big request and not something like "can you make it in red"...I'm just throwing the idea out there. Once again, thanks for this awesome project!

Yeah I guess everything can be done, because as soon as the protocol for enabling the RGB is in place, which it seemingly is through the Arduino, then it's "simply" a matter of throwing in whatever components are desired. I am yet not strong enough in the intricacies of the sync signal to do it, but if I ever got a D9H, then I guess it would be an interesting project First tho, this coronavirus needs to gtfo, as a lot of production facilities in China are closed mandatory, including JLCPCB where I ordered the boards (at least where they produce the lead free stuff). So right now it's a waiting game, until they recover

Greetings from ShenZhen,China, thank you so much for share such a great design, i just made several PCB and shared with my friends, these boards works splendid! only pity is that Sony's flaw on D9/D14 series which some console including raspberry pi will suffer sync issues....

i think i can help you to print and test free sample of PCBs if you are interested in supporting "VCR" mode, i also can FedEx ship these sample to you

[RGB0b]

i think i can help you to print and test free sample of PCBs if you are interested in supporting "VCR" mode, i also can FedEx ship these sample to you

Your boards look good! To fix "VCR mode", you'd actually have to completely regenerate the sync signal. I think an FPGA would be the best way to do this. Do you have the ability to program sync regen into an FPGA?

[skum]

Greetings from ShenZhen,China, thank you so much for share such a great design, i just made several PCB and shared with my friends, these boards works splendid! only pity is that Sony's flaw on D9/D14 series which some console including raspberry pi will suffer sync issues....

i think i can help you to print and test free sample of PCBs if you are interested in supporting "VCR" mode, i also can FedEx ship these sample to you

I completely missed this post. Thank you As retrorgb mentions, the seemingly only way to deal with "VCR mode", would be to recreate the sync signal completely and put the circuit in the sync path (thus eliminating the need for VCR mode to begin with). This would require something like an FPGA (I have begun some very initial research on doing this on a small lattice FPGA) which "samples" the sync, and regenerates a proper sync signal from it, meaning serration pulses and horizontal pulses during the vertical blanking period. I am unsure if this can be done in a general way, but I think it can. Looking at how the LM1881 and friends work I think they give some clues, as how to do some of it, at least the primers. I might take you up on the offer if I ever get somewhere with this. Again thanks.

EDIT: A hack could of course be to instead fake a BKM-127W, but with direct RGB lines in, at least if VCR mode is really available here. Unfortunately I would think this would lock the input type to whatever BKM-127W transcodes to, RGB or YPbPr.

[Dochartaigh]

EDIT: A hack could of course be to instead fake a BKM-127W, but with direct RGB lines in, at least if VCR mode is really available here. Unfortunately I would think this would lock the input type to whatever BKM-127W transcodes to, RGB or YPbPr.

VCR mode is available on the 127W. But unfortunately, even with it on, it seems to sync with even less consoles than the RGB/YPbPr 129x card.

I tried testing 13 or 14 consoles I was selling the other week on my D9. I was selling them with stock Composite cables, and a few S-Video cables, so those are what I tested. I didn't keep track of which exactly, but I want to say way more than half wouldn't sync (I could have given up after like 6 or 7 though TBH).

Tried 2x D9's and 2x 127w cards (and had plenty of composite cables so tried a couple for a system or two just to rule them out), so it most likely wasn't faulty hardware per-say – they seem to just need an EXACT broadcast-quality sync - my Extron tester for example works PERFECT on these over Composite or S-Video.

My 14L5 I broke out synced with every single one perfectly.

[skum]

VCR mode is available on the 127W. But unfortunately, even with it on, it seems to sync with even less consoles than the RGB/YPbPr 129x card.

I tried testing 13 or 14 consoles I was selling the other week on my D9. I was selling them with stock Composite cables, and a few S-Video cables, so those are what I tested. I didn't keep track of which exactly, but I want to say way more than half wouldn't sync. Tried 2x D9's and 2x 127w cables (and had plenty of composite cables), so it most likely wasn't faulty hardware per-say (just the need for EXACT broadcast-quality sync).

My 14L5 I broke out synced with every single one perfectly.

This is close to being depressing to hear

[Dochartaigh]

This is close to being depressing to hear

Talking overall here, and this is solely guessing, but I think some of the sync issues have to do with the voltages as well. For instance, when I run RGBS directly off consoles I commonly have issues with a D9/D14 syncing. BUT, when I'm running everything through my Extron Crosspoint, which raised sync voltage to somewhere around 5vpp, most everything over RGBS works pretty darn well. Sure, need to use Extron RGB device for a couple to fix the top flagging sync issue, but everything seems to work at least.

Problem is CV and YC doesn't have separate sync of course, and is supposed to be standard consumer level voltage, right? Like 0.7vpp or something like that (could be off there, really don't know)? And that even a 127w card meant specifically for those STILL doesn't work 100% of the time is certainly disconcerting.