influential innovations, beginning with a list this time

[professor ganson]

Darius Gaiden started the enemy capture thing

Zero Wing allowed you to capture enemies five years earlier.

Galaga also allowed for enemy capture. Wasn't it the first?

[Shatterhand]

-Togglable Speed Levels on a Whim-

I'd say Einhander, but...

In Thunder Force 3 you already could change your speed on the fly.

In Aleste 2 (MSX) which predates TF3, you could pause the game and change the speed of your ship. I believe they did it this way because there were no more buttons left in the MSX controller to do that "on the fly".

[Galaxius]

Scramble - 1981
Gradius - 1985
Salamander - 1986

Also, Batsugun and Donpachi in the manic department.

[nZero]

In Thunder Force 3 you already could change your speed on the fly.

In Aleste 2 (MSX) which predates TF3, you could pause the game and change the speed of your ship. I believe they did it this way because there were no more buttons left in the MSX controller to do that "on the fly".

Was Super Star Soldier or Thunder Force 3 first? Both had on the fly speed change, but I don't remember which one predates the other.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

In Thunder Force 3 you already could change your speed on the fly.

In Aleste 2 (MSX) which predates TF3, you could pause the game and change the speed of your ship. I believe they did it this way because there were no more buttons left in the MSX controller to do that "on the fly".

Was Super Star Soldier or Thunder Force 3 first? Both had on the fly speed change, but I don't remember which one predates the other.

The one classic shmup for the PCE/TG-16 was the Gunhed/Blazing Lazers shmup that allowed the player to change the speed of his or her ship "on the fly"...which predated the PCE/TG-16 release of Super Star Soldier, even Thunder Force III or even the PSX classic of Sqauresoft's Einhander.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[Icarus]

The one classic shmup for the PCE/TG-16 was the Gunhed/Blazing Lazers shmup that allowed the player to change the speed of his or her ship "on the fly"...which predated the PCE/TG-16 release of Super Star Soldier, even Thunder Force III or even the PSX classic of Sqauresoft's Einhander.

What about Image Fight?

[Thunder Force]

Darius Gaiden started the enemy capture thing

Zero Wing allowed you to capture enemies five years earlier.

Galaga also allowed for enemy capture. Wasn't it the first?

It was Gaplus.

[Neo Rasa]

The one classic shmup for the PCE/TG-16 was the Gunhed/Blazing Lazers shmup that allowed the player to change the speed of his or her ship "on the fly"...which predated the PCE/TG-16 release of Super Star Soldier, even Thunder Force III or even the PSX classic of Sqauresoft's Einhander.

What about Image Fight?

I wondering when someone would mention this game in this context.

Also not really used often, but how about changing altitude in a vertical shmup? Captain Skyhawk on the NES is probably the only prominent game to do this. The first is likely this old Data East coin-op called Zoar. Then there's also pseudo-instances of this like River Raid.

[rtw]

It was Gaplus.

Actually Thunder Force is correct, in Galaga you reclaim your ship but in Gaplus you make use of the enemy!

rtw

[LoneSage]

Salamander/Lifeforce: The first shmup with both verical and horzi. stages on one game. ;)

An evolutionary dead-end.

Abadox by Natsume for the NES had a mix of vertical and horizontal stages too. Yeah, this game is apparently heavily inspired by Life Force with its organic look, but it had a feature I've never seen before in any shmup since: vertical stages that scroll DOWNWARD with your character firing downwards.

Ajax had a mix of vertical stages as the helicopter and 3D third person view stages as the fighter jet.

Turtle Ship also had a mix of horizontal stages and vertical stages.

Area 88/U.N. Squadron is the first shmup I can think off where you can make several passes on a boss, actually changing directions of scrolling, flying, and shooting.

With all those more obscure mentions, I'm surprised you didn't mention Thunder Force II or Axelay ;)

[benstylus]

Skull Fang featured a throttle mechanic that allowed you to speed up or slow down the flight speed (not the movement speed) of your ship. Doing this could get enemies behind you or in front of you and it was especially useful in boss battles. Other than that throttle mechanic it's a pretty unremarkable game.

Have any other shmups done something like that?

I know it's not central to the genre, but it may have influenced a couple other games at least.

Image Fight allready had that.
I don't like this feature.

No, Image Fight allows you to adjust your movement speed.

Skull Fang allows you to adjust your flight speed - making you go through the stages faster or slower... it's something I have not seen in a shooter before or since.

I have not played Kingdom Grandprix but perhaps it has a similar mechanic (as it is a racing shooter).

[Blue]

Professor Ganson- Great thread. It's good to see that so many people are interested in exploring history. Hopefully through doing so we'll learn a bit about what makes games great. For instance, isn't it interesting that so many people like Raiden and Ikaruga? I think that says something about the importance of polish and excellent implementation. New ideas may sell a title, but in order for it to last it has to be rock solid.
Why not update your initial post with a little about the origins of each idea? That way when the discussion dies down, we'll have ourselves a nice little reference.

Deep Scoring

The first real knowledge-based scoring system I recall is Galaga's

Same here- are there any shooters with complex scoring that predate this?

MR.DO also had a score chaining mechanic.. not sure of its release date though

Good point, the idea definately didn't originate with shooters. Going back a couple years, the system in Pac Man (1980) predates and seemingly influenced Mr. Do. It's not a shooter, so I don't know if we should count it. For that matter, it might not even be the first. Are there any games with "deep" scoring systems before Pac-Man?

Lock-on Weapons

I think Rayforce/Layer Section was the first to use that...

I think so- Layer Section (1993). But going back further, the lock-on weapon is a grandchild of the air-to-ground attack in games like Xevious (1982). I bet once this discussion gets going, we'll see more examples of an idea gradually changing over time.

There's also a purple locking beam in Raiden 2 (1993). It in turn seems like an immitation of the wavy purple beam in Dogyuun (1992) If so Seibu added the locking and steering mechanisms. This sort of locking beam is perhaps more like homing missiles than Layer Section's lock-on weapon, and I feel it may belong in a different part of the family tree.

Proximity Attack
I think, like scoring mechanics, this bled in from other genres. So what was the first shooter to borrow the idea, and if relevant, what non-shooters influenced it?

Hmm- first game with a melee attack... I remember playing some old arcade game in which your character is a flying mech. The weapon configuration changed at the start of each stage, and and of the weapons was a sword. When you used it on smaller enemies, they would get sliced in half in a most shamelessly gratuitous manner. Does anyone have any idea what this game was called? I'm guessing it was released in the early '90's.

[LoneSage]

-piercing weapon

What would you mean by this? Like a physical weapon (ex: sword in Radiant SG and Tekkaman Blade)?

[Neo Rasa]

I'm not sure either. Guardian Legend if he means a sword/melee type weapons in a shmup. Ikari Warriors if he means a shot that goes through obstacles/enemies (though that's not really a shmup to begin with).

[BulletMagnet]

Skull Fang allows you to adjust your flight speed - making you go through the stages faster or slower... it's something I have not seen in a shooter before or since.

I have not played Kingdom Grandprix but perhaps it has a similar mechanic (as it is a racing shooter).

It does have something similar, though not quite the same: in Skull Fang, you have a separate "throttle" button to use to adjust your speed, while in KGP you have to hold down the shot button to do it (and thus riskily stop shooting while you're speeding). Both games do require you to mess with the speed, but for different reasons: while both do give you higher bonuses for finishing stages faster (via speeding), in Skull Fang you have to both speed up and slow down once you get to the boss, to keep it onscreen enough for you to shoot it down, since it speeds up and slows down too. In KGP you pretty much just speed as much as you can without getting shot down; once you get to a boss you can't progress till you beat it anyways.

Odd though, somehow I never really made a connection between those two games, though it seems so obvious in retrospect.

[Shatterhand]

I'm not sure either. Guardian Legend if he means a sword/melee type weapons in a shmup. Ikari Warriors if he means a shot that goes through obstacles/enemies (though that's not really a shmup to begin with).

Zanac is from 1986 and it had a shot that goes through obstacles.

Well, the laser in Gradius also does it, and Gradius is from 1985.

[professor ganson]

-piercing weapon

What would you mean by this? Like a physical weapon (ex: sword in Radiant SG and Tekkaman Blade)?

Uhhh... good question. I copied that list from CMoon, and I'm not exactly sure what he had in mind. The first thing that comes to mind for me is the piercing weapon in Mars Matrix, but that would also be an instance of a proximity attack. We had a whole thread devoted to the origins of proximity attacks, and I still haven't had a chance to revisit it. It's likely we'll need to distinguish varieties of proximity attack to narrow the question a bit.

[Neo Rasa]

I'm not sure either. Guardian Legend if he means a sword/melee type weapons in a shmup. Ikari Warriors if he means a shot that goes through obstacles/enemies (though that's not really a shmup to begin with).

Zanac is from 1986 and it had a shot that goes through obstacles.

Well, the laser in Gradius also does it, and Gradius is from 1985.

Gradius it is then.

[Ganelon]

First shooter to reward the player with intermission sex scenes: Steam Hearts'

Am I correct?

[captain ahar]

^ while i can't contest this specifically, i really doubt its truth.

[cigsthecat]

Tiger Heli is the first to use a buzz element, I believe. You would automatically use a bomb if you scraped an enemy. 1985.

[Specineff]

I can't believe no one has mentioned robbing or hi-jacking the enemy weapons, like Gaiares and Einhander.

[dai jou bu]

Destuctable boss parts.

[Blue]

Destuctable boss parts.

R-Type (1987) comes to mind- the third stage is almost all destructible boss parts. I doubt that's the first instance of the idea, though.

How about Gradius, did Gradius have destructible boss components??

[Neo Rasa]

Yes and no. The boss weakpoints in Gradius more often than not would have several layers of armor on them you'd have to destroy individually.

[dai jou bu]

How about the ones where the enemy explosions would negate their bullets (like noiz2a) or cause adjacent enemies to explode (Twinkle Star Sprites)? Oddly enough, both are implemented in Air Rade.

[LUNardei]

It would be great if someone put a timeline in the first post of this thread!

[professor ganson]

It would be great if someone put a timeline in the first post of this thread!

What do you mean, exactly? I can add something if you like.

[Icarus]

A piercing weapon... I think the first instance of it was in Defender (or Stargate, Juno First or Dropzone, at least), as the primary weapon was a laser that passed though enemies, I think. Can't remember if it swept the screen on movement. If it did, it would be the first instance of a sweeping Laser weapon which would be implemented later, in Gradius.

Actual close-range melee weapons probably appeared in Zanac, with the circle shield. (First example of a shield, maybe? I know Image Fight has a shield addon. Pretty useless though.)

Defender and Stargate also had a smart bomb weapon activated by the second controller firebutton on the A2600 version. Bomb fragments appeared in Gun Frontier, although there might have been a game that predates that.

Destructible boss parts? Probably R-Type. I certainly cannot think of anything older that had bosses that could be systematically taken apart by the player.

Reflective weapons? I'm thinking Robotron (there was a rebounding weapon in Llamatron which was based on Robotron). Also R-Type's blue threeway laser.

Hmm- first game with a melee attack... I remember playing some old arcade game in which your character is a flying mech. The weapon configuration changed at the start of each stage, and and of the weapons was a sword. When you used it on smaller enemies, they would get sliced in half in a most shamelessly gratuitous manner. Does anyone have any idea what this game was called? I'm guessing it was released in the early '90's

Cybattler. Early mech vert with a melee attack. Probably inspired Brave Blade to some extent.

[Blue]

I can't believe no one has mentioned robbing or hi-jacking the enemy weapons, like Gaiares and Einhander.

I think that mechanic has a lot of potential as an alternative to the standard powerup system. Weapon stealing fits nicely into games with paper / rock /scissors weapons. (Halo is a non-shmup example of this, actually.) I can't think of any other occurences of it, though- was Gaiares the first?

What about respawning at the current location? Gradius + company make you start at the last checkpoint, but now we just jump back into the fray with temporary invincibility. I don't know if this is any help, but I suspect the innovation grew out of the first 2-player simultaneous games. (Because checkpoints don't work if only one player dies.)

And what about giving the freshly respawned player a few powerups? I know Raiden (1990) does this.

Cybattler.

Hey, thanks! That's the one.