Any comparisons between the Wii and Wii U for Wii games?

[Guspaz]

Chroma might have issues, but for luma? Wii U looks enormously better. Look at the text in these two examples:



It looks like the Wii image is half the horizontal resolution as the Wii U image. The text is much clearer on the Wii U.

[BazookaBen]

It looks like the Wii image is half the horizontal resolution as the Wii U image. The text is much clearer on the Wii U.

Why are you comparing PAL to NTSC?

[Guspaz]

It looks like the Wii image is half the horizontal resolution as the Wii U image. The text is much clearer on the Wii U.

Why are you comparing PAL to NTSC?

Because Extrems didn't post any NTSC Wii shots, and he didn't post any PAL Wii U shots. PAL to NTSC is the only comparison possible based on the screenshots provided.

[Extrems]

My Wii is set to 576p by default and it's a pain to change it back, but 480p is the same.

I'll try to dust off the OpenTTD source code and add more comparisons, including GameCube.

[Thomago]

Ooops. I just noticed that Extrems' 480i/p screenshots weren't Wii, but WiiU shots. Sorry, ignore my dumb comment!

[BazookaBen]

Because Extrems didn't post any NTSC Wii shots, and he didn't post any PAL Wii U shots. PAL to NTSC is the only comparison possible based on the screenshots provided.

Oh ok, but I would think that would make the comparison worthless. We don't know if the image is being stretched or centered on 576p

[Extrems]

Updated with additional Wii and Wii U comparisons.

[Guspaz]

Oh ok, but I would think that would make the comparison worthless. We don't know if the image is being stretched or centered on 576p

You can look at the 480p vs 480p photos extrems posted now, the results are identical. The Wii U text is much clearer.

[Ikaruga11]

Chroma might have issues, but for luma? Wii U looks enormously better. Look at the text in these two examples:



It looks like the Wii image is half the horizontal resolution as the Wii U image. The text is much clearer on the Wii U.

The text is the only thing that is clearer on the Wii U. Everything is else noticably clearer on the Wii. It's strange

[BazookaBen]

You can look at the 480p vs 480p photos extrems posted now, the results are identical. The Wii U text is much clearer.

Not sure why the text is clearer, because everything else is obviously blurrier.

[Lawfer]

You can look at the 480p vs 480p photos extrems posted now, the results are identical. The Wii U text is much clearer.

Not sure why the text is clearer, because everything else is obviously blurrier.

True, but as Fudoh mentioned it is quite a travesty how the source resolution (480p) is crappier than the Wii U lousy upscales (from the native 480p source) in 720p (and that's only by using the component cables rather than HDMI), it's supposed to be the other way around!

[Obiwanshinobi]

Can Wii ROMs be loaded off an external HDD on a (modded) Wii U? Rather on-topic a question, considering how convenient it is on the Wii (when using one of trouble-free HDD models).

[Extrems]

Updated with GameCube comparisons.

[Xer Xian]

Well, I take back my words about the GC being an exception to Nintendo's awful track record. It is a little bit better than the Wii, but still a far cry from the reference.

Thanks Extrems.

Edit: Just asking, but could the fact that the source is 'simulated' imply that you took some sort of screen grab, thus bypassing the capturing device you're using for the consoles? If that's the case, is there any chance that the blurriness is (at least in part) due to a lossy capture? Sorry, I'm desperately trying to give the GC another chance

[Ikaruga11]

Thanks for the all the hard work, Extrems. Really appreciate it.

What about HDMI GameCube 480p?

[Extrems]

Just asking, but could the fact that the source is 'simulated' imply that you took some sort of screen grab, thus bypassing the capturing device you're using for the consoles?

Source is the framebuffer contents, but it's a pain to dump so I took a shortcut.

What about HDMI GameCube 480p?

I don't have HDMI, but it should be identical to Source YCbCr with a RGB 4:4:4 capture device.

[Ikaruga11]

Just asking, but could the fact that the source is 'simulated' imply that you took some sort of screen grab, thus bypassing the capturing device you're using for the consoles?

Source is the framebuffer contents, but it's a pain to dump so I took a shortcut.

What about HDMI GameCube 480p?

I don't have HDMI, but it should be identical to Source YCbCr with a RGB 4:4:4 capture device.

So HDMI is clearer than the component cables

[Lawfer]

Edit: Just asking, but could the fact that the source is 'simulated' imply that you took some sort of screen grab, thus bypassing the capturing device you're using for the consoles? If that's the case, is there any chance that the blurriness is (at least in part) due to a lossy capture? Sorry, I'm desperately trying to give the GC another chance

The GameCube Component output is pretty nice compared to the Wii, but it's not very good compared to the other consoles. Not to mention that the gamma levels are higher compared to the "reference", resulting in a quite darker picture than what it really looks like.

[Ikaruga11]

Edit: Just asking, but could the fact that the source is 'simulated' imply that you took some sort of screen grab, thus bypassing the capturing device you're using for the consoles? If that's the case, is there any chance that the blurriness is (at least in part) due to a lossy capture? Sorry, I'm desperately trying to give the GC another chance

The GameCube Component output is pretty nice compared to the Wii, but it's not very good compared to the other consoles. Not to mention that the gamma levels are higher compared to the "reference", resulting in a quite darker picture than what it really looks like.

Yeah, the Wii's component output is complete ass, even with the best revisions. It desperately needs an HDMI mod like the GameCube has, or at least an improved component signal.

I wonder if the darker gamma levels of the GameCube comes from the DAC chip or the cables themselves.

HDMI does look a bit brighter than Component if you look at the comparisons in MLiG's GameCube RGB video on YouTube.

[Lawfer]

It desperately needs an HDMI mod like the GameCube has, or at least an improved component signal.

I am actually hoping for one, especially considering how popular of a console the Wii was/is with quite a bit number of good exclusives (unlike the Wii U and from the looks of it the Switch as well), problem is seeing as how the Wii U can do HDMI for Wii game (no matter how much of an abysmal job it does at it) if in light of this people just won't bother doing a Wii HDMI mod because the Wii U already does it.

[Extrems]

I wonder if the darker gamma levels of the GameCube comes from the DAC chip or the cables themselves.

It's an illusion, the levels are roughly the same.

HDMI does look a bit brighter than Component if you look at the comparisons in MLiG's GameCube RGB video on YouTube.

They didn't bother to calibrate the analog video levels.

I am actually hoping for one, especially considering how popular of a console the Wii was/is with quite a bit number of good exclusives (unlike the Wii U and from the looks of it the Switch as well), problem is seeing as how the Wii U can do HDMI for Wii game (no matter how much of an abysmal job it does at it) if in light of this people just won't bother doing a Wii HDMI mod because the Wii U already does it.

Unseen already adapted GCVideo DVI for the Wii, a year ago.

[Lawfer]

Unseen already adapted GCVideo DVI for the Wii, a year ago.

So wait, there is already a DVI mod for the Wii? DVI can easily be hooked on an HDMI input with a DVI-D to HDMI cable, so can you already buy one of these?

BuckoA51 mentioned to me a Wii HDMI mod back in January saying that it might help the Wii have a better output quality when/if the HDMI is ever finished, but that was about it.

Here you can see the mod upscaled to 1080p with a processor:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjMexaGIEEc

It looks pretty good! Much better than the upscale results I got from doing 720x480 YPbPr (tested on both a RVL-CPU-30 and RVL-CPU-60) to 1920x1080 HDMI.

[bobrocks95]

Unseen already adapted GCVideo DVI for the Wii, a year ago.

So wait, there is already a DVI mod for the Wii? DVI can easily be hooked on an HDMI input with a DVI-D to HDMI cable, so can you already order one of these or?

It's pretty much DVI in name only, as the main release was made for an HDMI FPGA board.

No commercial version available yet, you'd have to solder in a test board yourself. Citrus3000psi should have an update on his board design in a few weeks.

[Link83]

HDMI does look a bit brighter than Component if you look at the comparisons in MLiG's GameCube RGB video on YouTube.

I watched the video and I think these are the comparison images you are referring to?:-
https://youtu.be/hVX81e6Ig-s?t=999
https://youtu.be/hVX81e6Ig-s?t=1051
HDMI does look a bit brighter, but I guess that could be due to incorrect calibration as Extrems said.

Whats interesting though is that there still appears to be a difference between the Component video from the official cable, and the Component video from the GCvideo Lite prototype - does anyone know the reason for that difference? Is it because it was a prototype?

[Extrems]

Whats interesting though is that there still appears to be a difference between the Component video from the official cable, and the Component video from the GCvideo Lite prototype - does anyone know the reason for that difference? Is it because it was a prototype?

They're different devices, you have to calibrate for both.

[Ikaruga11]

HDMI does look a bit brighter than Component if you look at the comparisons in MLiG's GameCube RGB video on YouTube.

I watched the video and I think these are the comparison images you are referring to?:-
https://youtu.be/hVX81e6Ig-s?t=999
https://youtu.be/hVX81e6Ig-s?t=1050
HDMI does look a bit brighter, but I guess that could be due to incorrect calibration as Extrems said.

Whats interesting though is that there still appears to be a difference between the Component video from the official cable, and the Component video from the GCvideo Lite prototype - does anyone know the reason for that difference? Is it because it was a prototype?

Yes, that is some of the comparison footage I was referring to. Also these: https://youtu.be/hVX81e6Ig-s?t=14m51s (Super Mario Sunshine, Resident Evil 4, Metroid Prime all in a row). You can see even in YouTube's regular video size than HDMI is slightly sharper. Official component seems to have slightly higher red levels than Composite, S-Video and HDMI, but that could just be miscalibration.

I mistaken the official component cables for the GCVideo protype component cable in the Luigi's Mansion comparison. S-Video, Official Component and HDMI all look extremely similar in color composition there, but GCVideo Protype Component has noticeably higher red levels.

[Xer Xian]

I found a similar result doing a brief A/B comparison between the GCVideoLite and OEM Component cable (posted it on the GCVideo thread a couple of weeks ago), but attributed it to my crappy methodology. I'm sure that the MLiG guys are way better equipped than me and most likely used a proper capture card for their tests, so I don't know if monitor calibration should be taken into consideration here..

[Extrems]

It's not monitor calibration, it's capture device calibration.

For example, these are the settings I used with my Blackmagic Intensity Shuttle USB 3.0:

GameCube
Video: +0.04
Chroma: +0.02

Wii
Video: +0.09
Chroma: +0.04

Wii U
Video: +0.05
Chroma: +0.02

[Xer Xian]

Oh, ok. I totally ignored capture devices may need calibration as well wrt different sources (I guess not many of them offer this option). This is unfortunate imho since it introduces another free variable in the mix making captures a slighly less universally reliable * evaluation method for video quality (well, luminance and chromaticity at least).

Edit: Please notice that with the last bit I was not referring to the results posted in this thread, I was just talking in general.

Edit2: * Ok I realized myself that this is incorrect - anything that is adjustable via calibration shouldn't be considered a flaw in the source regardless of when said adjustment takes place (either at the capture or at the displey end). Still, people like me who never calibrated coulors on any display may find it difficult to understand whether a color inconsistency can be adjusted via calibration or not..

[bateman82]

I've always trusted this:

Wii U Wii Mode is a disaster.

1. 16 pixels is cut on each sides, in destination space. This result in 480p having the most overscan and 1080p the least. There is no 1:1 mapping.
2. There's a disagreement between left and center chroma sampling location. This result in a slight chroma shift.
3. There's no conversion between Rec. 601 and Rec. 709 Y'CbCr. This can result in wrong colors in HD and on the Wii U GamePad. This is further exacerbated by the smaller color gamut on the Wii U GamePad.

But, as Lawfer said, it was referred to the hdmi output only.

I'm not much a tech guy and from what I've understood the result is similar (very different from the bad hdmi output) but i'd like to find "definitive" and objective answer about the question Wii vs WiiU component, because I'd like to use the Wii only for VC at 240p via Scart Rgb (European one).