Your favorite Treasure shmup?

[Stevens]

This one is easy for me. Ikaruga.

It was the game that got me interested in the genre. To be fair, and hind sight is always clearer, it was the absolute worst game to start with.

The way I went about playing it was all wrong too - I tried to emulate super plays. It did help me though - I did what I could and changed what was too difficult.

As to why it's my favorite? It's short and you have no power ups. All of the games that I would come to love in later years would follow this (or have few power ups).

Gradius is fantastic, but it is just way too long for me. I know RSG is great too - but the length and having to keep track of seven weapons are deal breakers for me.

That said I would be behind a Treasure shooter in which you pilot Seven Force.

[Despatche]

Ikaruga is the only well-designed game here. Radiant Silvergun fundamentally fails to work (power up or die, chaining is moronic), and Gradius V has the option-swinging nonsense + is too long and loops.

[Zaarock]

Radiant Silvergun fundamentally fails to work (power up or die, chaining is moronic)

For the player this is alleviated by the fact that 90% of chains in RSG are piss easy compared to any other chaining game (especially Ikaruga!). Copy a 'superplay' route for stage 4A and a couple others and you have enough power to beat arcade mode. A new player can straight up copy a lot of optimal chains (or skip 1-2 enemies). A terrible idea in most games because you assume the scoring is hard but here it's mostly only kill red enemies & dont die. I wonder why only erppo brings this up usually.

Totally agree it's a broken system though. It's a shame about that and the slow pacing cause the weapon system and bosses are very cool. At least there's some other scoring mechanics to make high level play interesting. + Stage 5A is a lot like Ikaruga stage 4 and very, very difficult to chain compared to anything else in RSG.

[Despatche]

Well, that's half of why the chaining is moronic, most of it isn't interesting at all. The other half is that it simply doesn't make sense... pick only one color, but there are so many red enemies that the best strat is to literally bull it. Clearly, there was something better planned here, and they didn't figure it out completely... probably something like Ikaruga. Maybe they felt that three colors was too many. Ikaruga really figured all this out, didn't it? What a great game. I need to get the Steam version and go in hard.

Oh, but according to some people I'm not allowed to say any of this obvious noob-level stuff unless I can physically clear the game, and here it's one I don't even like because of what I'm talking about. I'm such an annoying know-it-all about this genre, even though I'm constantly guessing at everything and I don't trust any bit of what little info I have. Sorry for even daring to say anything.

I really like all the different weapons you have in RSG, Alltynex Second is great for putting this to better use. For what it's worth, the original Alltynex predates RSG.

[Blem]

Well, that's half of why the chaining is moronic, most of it isn't interesting at all. The other half is that it simply doesn't make sense... pick only one color, but there are so many red enemies that the best strat is to literally bull it. Clearly, there was something better planned here, and they didn't figure it out completely... probably something like Ikaruga. Maybe they felt that three colors was too many. Ikaruga really figured all this out, didn't it? What a great game. I need to get the Steam version and go in hard.

Oh, but according to some people I'm not allowed to say any of this obvious noob-level stuff unless I can physically clear the game, and here it's one I don't even like because of what I'm talking about. I'm such an annoying know-it-all about this genre, even though I'm constantly guessing at everything and I don't trust any bit of what little info I have. Sorry for even daring to say anything.

I really like all the different weapons you have in RSG, Alltynex Second is great for putting this to better use. For what it's worth, the original Alltynex predates RSG.

I don't think there's anyone in the world that's going to defend RSG's "don't kill enemies" chaining system.

[Despatche]

I sure hope not. RSG is fun for what it is and it's not as messed up as Esprade or anything, but the disconnect between what the developers wanted to do and what they did is large and obvious.

I wonder if it wasn't supposed to be a Saturn game released much later, then was rushed or even scaled-down for an earlier arcade release. Ikaruga, on the other hand, is an arcade game through and through.
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It just occurred to me that Silpheed: The Lost Planet should probably in this topic. It still uses the same perspective as the original and as games like Ray Storm, so why not? It's not a terrible game, either. Kinda like Gradius V, it is very clearly a console game. Naturally, it has a really bad HG101 article (by John S., of course) where he spends exactly one sentence actually talking about game design in any meaningful way (he vaguely mentions that the Sega CD game is better and doesn't even begin to go into detail).

Apparently TLP was "rushed" too. Just about every game is rushed in some big way, isn't it? Most people sweep whatever it was under the rug eventually, unless they're told to hate a game for it. Everyone praises Sonic 2 for having a third of the game ripped out or Diablo II for being a buggy and flavorless mess for about a year, but everyone complains about how "boring" TLP was or how "empty" Civ: Beyond Earth was (only considering the AI, of course). Oh, and TLP being "boring" links right back to Compile & Co. bullshit. Oh well.

[Kobayashi]

It just occurred to me that Silpheed: The Lost Planet should probably in this topic. It still uses the same perspective as the original and as games like Ray Storm, so why not? It's not a terrible game, either. Kinda like Gradius V, it is very clearly a console game. Naturally, it has a really bad HG101 article (by John S., of course) where he spends exactly one sentence actually talking about game design in any meaningful way (he vaguely mentions that the Sega CD game is better and doesn't even begin to go into detail).

Silpheed: The Lost Planet is a very good game and I like it. It was one of the first games released for PS2 (in Japan it was released in 2000) and has good graphics and some beautiful effects and CGI cutescenes, but the game sadly suffers from some heavy slowdowns, especially in the last boss. Silpheed is fun, no doubt, but is far from the same level of polish and excellence compared to the others options inside this poll. Silpheed could have been adding to this poll as a curiosity, but I'm sure it would take the last place.

[AxelMill]

okay i guess

[Despatche]

Polish and excellence, huh? I think I'd be willing to say that TLP has an edge over RSG in this.

Too bad all the old votes are gone, but at least I can vote for TLP now, just to give it at least one leg to stand on. Certainly worth more than some of these RSG votes...

[AxelMill]

Too bad all the old votes are gone, but at least I can vote for TLP now, just to give it at least one leg to stand on. Certainly worth more than some of these RSG votes...

Oh crap, didn't know that would happen. I should've expected it.

Uhh... Vote again, guys! I'm sure you'll all have fun doing it!

[Nick420]

Love them all.
Gradus V is in my top 3 games
Radiant silvergun gets my vote though. It's a masterpiece among masterpieces imo.

[Austin]

Eh... I just can't get behind Silpheed on PS2. Visuals aside (for the time, anyway), it was one of the most mundane shmups I have ever played. If some of you enjoy it, that's cool, I guess. I just want whatever garbage you're smoking (actually, maybe its best I don't).

It's not Treasure, but the Sega CD Silpheed is still pretty cool for the 16-bit gen. I can get behind that one.

[Jeneki]

I can distinctly remember the time I discovered PS2 Silpheed sitting on a game store shelf, and having a minor nerdgasm. "Oh cool it's that Sega CD game (which I hadn't played yet since I didn't have a Sega CD at the time), wait treasure made this one? Whhhoooooaaa duuuuuude ..." And then buying the game while mispronouncing the title as Slip-heed.

Got home, played it a bunch, decided it wasn't for me. This was definitely a case of me overhyping a game to myself.

[Aldnox]

Radiant Silvergun is good. Gradius V is good. But Ikaruga? That is 10/10

[Pedro Lambrini]

I plumped for Ikaruga. Radiant Silvergun is a close second but it was Ika that got me back into shmups after a long gap away from the genre.

The presentation and polish is just lovely. The game has aged really well. If it was released today I don't think anyone would have any complaints. So, yeah, Ikaruga for me.

[gray117]

Changes between ikaruga and rs... but 3rd choice would be bangio if that counts. An underappreciated gem imho despite the various versions - the dreamcast version of that just hooked me.

[Super Laydock]

Changes between ikaruga and rs... but 3rd choice would be bangio if that counts. An underappreciated gem imho despite the various versions - the dreamcast version of that just hooked me.

Yup Bangai-o all the way! Even if it's no choice here.
Sin And Punishment as a good second. (technically not being a shmup...)
Ikaruga IS OVERrated.

[EmperorIng]

I like Bangai-O, but it isn't a shootemup really (reading the arguments about Bangai-O for or against its addition to the top 25 vote years ago is some pretty fun reading).

Essentially, the intertia, gravity, and stage layouts would preclude it from being added to this poll, much like the Ranger X/Ex-Ranza, which also has some elements of shootemups.

[bikingjahuty]

Radaint Silvergun, no question. For a while I thought Ikaruga might be my favorite, but the more time that has passed, the more I like RS while my love for iKARUGA (which is significant btw) has stayed about the same since I initially got into it years ago.

[Gamer707b]

What a question! Its like asking who of your 2 dogs you love more. I guess iff I had to pick, I'd say RS because it feels less linear and gives you more freedom.

[wayultratech]

I think I am the minority but I like Gradius V most, Radiant Silvergun didnt captivate me as much as the hype got me amped for. I played it after the DC died, found it at a fair price but still like many other SHMUPs ,pre. Guwange anyone?

[Despatche]

Ikaruga IS OVERrated.

The community bullies it too much even though it's a great game, and an alarming number of these same people put RSG on the pedestal instead. Probably some old meme centering around RSG's elitist-attracting price and Ikaruga's greater reach. Ikaruga is essentially underrated because of all this.

Essentially, the intertia, gravity, and stage layouts would preclude it from being added to this poll, much like the Ranger X/Ex-Ranza, which also has some elements of shootemups.

I'm not sure any of these have much to do with whether or not it's a shmup. That's why something like Thexder or Sub-Terrania would still be a shmup. I'm pretty sure calling Bangai-o and Ex-Ranza shmups is fair, though I'd argue that the former is much more of a shmup.

[G-Darius]

After casting my vote I am not surprised when shown the results ,I lean towards Gradius V.