PS3 Fat has sharper image quality over Slim?

[ZellSF]

OP already specified he's not talking about blu-rays, so this doesn't apply.

My point was that a digital signal isn't always going to be unaltered. For instance, many GPUs in consumer products have massive issues in terms of white balance and colors even when outputting RGB.

Citation needed.

I've never heard of a GPU outputting a digital signal and somehow getting the colors wrong, unless they're configured wrong by the user or are faulty.

[Lawfer]

Does the fat perform better, is that what you're saying?

No, worse. It has performance issues (huge FPS dips in Folklore and Armored Core: For Answer for example) even when you use the "install" feature that some games have. This does not seem to affect everybody and it seems to be depending on the PS3 model they use.

The Phat also is missing AV option features that are available on the subsequent revisions, also the Phat PS3 is HDMI 1.3, while the subsequent revisions are HDMI 1.4

I've never heard of a GPU outputting a digital signal and somehow getting the colors wrong, unless they're configured wrong by the user or are faulty.

Difference between Colors Range, Full Range RGB options and Deep Colour output options?

The PS4 has both of these options and they work.

The Xbox 360 and One have Full Range RGB but they are both non-working as you will get blackcrush instead.

The Wii U has neither of these.

The PS TV has poor colors even with the Full Range RGB option on. (might this be due to the fact that most PS Vita games were made with OLED colors in mind?) Someone mentioned this on the internet:

the HDMI capture of the Vita TV, while an improvement over shitty handcam, does not quite have as good a color range as the raw files can display. Like, the colors and visuals look much cleaner and crisper here.

[ZellSF]

The Phat also is missing AV option features that are available on the subsequent revisions, also the Phat PS3 is HDMI 1.3, while the subsequent revisions are HDMI 1.4

Missing AV scaling options for legacy titles, yes. Does not apply to OP trying to play a native PS3 title.

HDMI 1.3 vs 1.4 has no impact on image quality, just feature set.

Difference between Colors Range, Full Range RGB options and Deep Colour output options?

I already covered devices being configured wrong by the user. Those are all user configurable options on the PS3. OP said the options were set identically.

The Xbox 360 and One have Full Range RGB but they are both non-working as you will get blackcrush instead.

Software/driver decision made by Microsoft. Not different hardware resulting in different color output.

The Wii U has neither of these.

Software/driver config. Identical across all hardware. Definitely does not apply to OP as this option is user configurable on all PS3s.

The PS TV has poor colors even with the Full Range RGB option on. (might this be due to the fact that most PS Vita games were made with OLED colors in mind?) Someone mentioned this on the internet:

the HDMI capture of the Vita TV, while an improvement over shitty handcam, does not quite have as good a color range as the raw files can display. Like, the colors and visuals look much cleaner and crisper here.

The "poor colors" here is a result of different display devices, not the digital output of the device being different. That's not relevant to OP's problem.

The reason PSTV might not be as crisp as a Vita otherwise is simple: it needs to be upscaled, twice actually due to a design problem. This might easily affect color perception in fine detail. The PS3 game OP was testing is 1080p and does not need any upscaling, so this does not apply.


All the examples you thought of are GPUs worked as they are intended to, outputting exactly what they are told to. No hardware variations really coming into effect. So the question is, why would Sony program their software to output a different image for the slim than the fat? I can't think of any logical reason.

[Lawfer]

Missing AV scaling options for legacy titles, yes. Does not apply to OP trying to play a native PS3 title.

It's also missing audio options.

All the examples you thought of are GPUs worked as they are intended to, outputting exactly what they are told to. No hardware variations really coming into effect. So the question is, why would Sony program their software to output a different image for the slim than the fat? I can't think of any logical reason.

I have no idea, but this sort of thing is not unheard of really, as I mentioned before this sort of thing can be observed in console revisions and in different output, SNES, Saturn, Wii, specially in the Wii, the original RVL-001 has a different output look than RVL-101 revision, also when outputing a picture in 480p Nintendo purposefuly applied a blur to the picture, while when you choose the 480i you get a clearer picture whitout the blur filter.

[ZellSF]

All the examples you thought of are GPUs worked as they are intended to, outputting exactly what they are told to. No hardware variations really coming into effect. So the question is, why would Sony program their software to output a different image for the slim than the fat? I can't think of any logical reason.

I have no idea, but this sort of thing is not unheard of really, as I mentioned before this sort of thing can be observed in console revisions and in different output, SNES, Saturn, Wii, specially in the Wii, the original RVL-001 has a different output look than RVL-101 revision, also when outputing a picture in 480p Nintendo purposefuly applied a blur to the picture, while when you choose the 480i you get a clearer picture whitout the blur filter.

It's not unheard of in analog consoles, no. In digital consoles, it is.

Also, I've never heard of a 480p blur filter for the Wii and a Google search tells me nothing. Even if that is true (which I do not believe), that's a difference between 480i and 480p. OP is specifically saying there's a difference between two equally setup consoles both outputting 1080p.

[citrus3000psi]

I'll try to boot my B01 and a slim up this weekend and compare

[ZellSF]

My fat PS3 probably isn't old enough for comparison. If it was I'd probably already have done some captures to prove this wrong.

[bobrocks95]

There are untold numbers of bugs in the silicon of GPUs that are painstakingly covered up in software. It's entirely possible that during a change in manufacturing process from 90nm to 45nm that some new bugs were introduced that could affect video quality.

[nissling]

Citation needed.

I've never heard of a GPU outputting a digital signal and somehow getting the colors wrong, unless they're configured wrong by the user or are faulty.

Although in Swedish...
http://d65.se/viktigt-fran-d65se/konkre ... i-nar.html

Det finns ofta väldigt stora fel från början på en PC som signalkälla och bildsignalen förändras av enkla grepp som att man uppdaterar program, byter codec, installerar ny drivrutin för grafikkort eller liknande.

Anyone who's been into calibration of PC monitors know how different GPUs can behave with different drivers, software or in combination with the monitors themselves. Other issues can occur, i.e. ICC profiles may be reset after certain updates in Windows (it happened to me at least once).

[austin532]

I'll try to boot my B01 and a slim up this weekend and compare

Do you have an original Made In Japan AO1 to test? I know the BO1 is very similar but there might be some slight differences. It would help eliminate any more confusion. If you have a 320gb slim as well that would be great. Should be the 2501B.

[citrus3000psi]

I'll try to boot my B01 and a slim up this weekend and compare

Do you have an original Made In Japan AO1 to test? I know the BO1 is very similar but there might be some slight differences. It would help eliminate any more confusion. If you have a 320gb slim as well that would be great. Should be the 2501B.

The B01 and A01 have the same motherboard. The B01 just doesn't have the wifi board, its also missing some surface caps that are for this wifi board. They are otherwise identical. I do have a few A01's but the B01 is updated and ready to go. I'll try and the B01 first.

My main slim is a 2501A. A/B is just harddrive size. The motherboards are the same.

[Ikaruga11]

Wii, specially in the Wii, the original RVL-001 has a different output look than RVL-101 revision

It's slightly sharper. That's it.

also when outputing a picture in 480p Nintendo purposefuly applied a blur to the picture, while when you choose the 480i you get a clearer picture whitout the blur filter.

I'm gonna need a source on this. Never heard of that and it makes absolutely no sense.

[bobrocks95]

Wii, specially in the Wii, the original RVL-001 has a different output look than RVL-101 revision

It's slightly sharper. That's it.

also when outputing a picture in 480p Nintendo purposefuly applied a blur to the picture, while when you choose the 480i you get a clearer picture whitout the blur filter.

I'm gonna need a source on this. Never heard of that and it makes absolutely no sense.

The blur has been talked about extensively, I just don't know about it being 480p specific and 480i disabling it (though that makes some sense to me).

[Ikaruga11]

The blur has been talked about extensively, I just don't know about it being 480p specific and 480i disabling it (though that makes some sense to me).

The Wii's video output isn't as sharp as the GameCube, so you could say that it's blurry by comparison. But to insinuate that there is some N64-style hardware blur added only to 480p and not 480i is insane.

[Lawfer]

Do you have an original Made In Japan AO1 to test?

Not all original A01 Playstation 3 fat models are Made in Japan, most were Made in China.

Wii, specially in the Wii, the original RVL-001 has a different output look than RVL-101 revision

It's slightly sharper. That's it.

also when outputing a picture in 480p Nintendo purposefuly applied a blur to the picture, while when you choose the 480i you get a clearer picture whitout the blur filter.

I'm gonna need a source on this. Never heard of that and it makes absolutely no sense.

The blur has been talked about extensively, I just don't know about it being 480p specific and 480i disabling it (though that makes some sense to me).

Remember The Bouncer and Disaster Report? This is basically what you are looking at here when playing the Wii in 480p. I don't think people will notice it on consumer TV, you will probably need a Broadcast monitor such as a BVM-D/A to notice the difference.

[bobrocks95]

The blur has been talked about extensively, I just don't know about it being 480p specific and 480i disabling it (though that makes some sense to me).

The Wii's video output isn't as sharp as the GameCube, so you could say that it's blurry by comparison. But to insinuate that there is some N64-style hardware blur added only to 480p and not 480i is insane.

I asked Unseen when he adapted his GCVideo project to work with the Wii as well whether or not the blur was internal or the result of the DAC in the console, and he kind of dodged the question coyly. So I don't know- if the same company did it on the N64, what's so "insane" about the thought of them doing it on the Wii as an effort to lower jaggies on HDTVs? Seriously, I want a straight answer on that one, because I don't get how you could completely dismiss the idea.

[Ikaruga11]

I asked Unseen when he adapted his GCVideo project to work with the Wii as well whether or not the blur was internal or the result of the DAC in the console,

There is no proof that the blur even exists, much less implemented intentionally.

if the same company did it on the N64, what's so "insane" about the thought of them doing it on the Wii as an effort to lower jaggies on HDTVs? Seriously, I want a straight answer on that one, because I don't get how you could completely dismiss the idea.

Because the N64 was a 240p console, and 3D models have far more pixelation and jaggies in 240p than 480p. Just because a company does something doesn't necessarily mean they'll do it again. There's no reason to implement a system-wide blur filter. Games can utilize their own anti-aliasing. The Wii hardware was developed with CRTs in mind.

If you play a Wii game in 480i anamorphic widescreen using composite on a 55" 1080p LCD TV, of course it'll look like a blurry piece of shit.

[bobrocks95]

There is no proof that the blur even exists, much less implemented intentionally.

It's been verified by oscilloscope as having a weaker signal than the Gamecube.

There's no reason to implement a system-wide blur filter. Games can utilize their own anti-aliasing. The Wii hardware was developed with CRTs in mind.

If you're saying my claims are unsubstantiated, realize yours are too.

[Ikaruga11]

It's been verified by oscilloscope as having a weaker signal than the Gamecube.

That doesn't mean there's blur.

If you're saying my claims are unsubstantiated, realize yours are too.

The Wii was released in late 2006 and in development before that, a time when HDTVs or even 480p LCDs/Plasmas were uncommon. The Wii outputs a 640x480 analog signal. Which is, surprise, designed for 4:3 CRTs.

[citrus3000psi]

I did some testing last. I did not see any difference. My b01 is made in China

[ZellSF]

Citation needed.

I've never heard of a GPU outputting a digital signal and somehow getting the colors wrong, unless they're configured wrong by the user or are faulty.

Although in Swedish...
http://d65.se/viktigt-fran-d65se/konkre ... i-nar.html

Det finns ofta väldigt stora fel från början på en PC som signalkälla och bildsignalen förändras av enkla grepp som att man uppdaterar program, byter codec, installerar ny drivrutin för grafikkort eller liknande.

Anyone who's been into calibration of PC monitors know how different GPUs can behave with different drivers, software or in combination with the monitors themselves. Other issues can occur, i.e. ICC profiles may be reset after certain updates in Windows (it happened to me at least once).

That's citing software changes, which I think I covered with user misconfiguration. It's not the GPU outputting a slightly different image than it's told to, which is really what OP seems to be claiming here.

Wii, specially in the Wii, the original RVL-001 has a different output look than RVL-101 revision

It's slightly sharper. That's it.

also when outputing a picture in 480p Nintendo purposefuly applied a blur to the picture, while when you choose the 480i you get a clearer picture whitout the blur filter.

I'm gonna need a source on this. Never heard of that and it makes absolutely no sense.

The blur has been talked about extensively, I just don't know about it being 480p specific and 480i disabling it (though that makes some sense to me).

Why does that make sense to you? Blur filtering is usually used to reduce flickering on 480i, being specifically only enabled for 480p is the opposite of what makes sense.

[austin532]

I did some testing last. I did not see any difference. My b01 is made in China

I don't get it. I guess mine is a fluke?

[Ikaruga11]

My brother has a 2006 launch PS3 Phat and I have a PS3 Slim that I bought in 2010. Both are hooked up via HDMI and outputting 1080p with the exact same settings. I cannot tell any difference in sharpness or color.

[atheistgod1999]

Can you check the video settings on both PS3s? Especially Deep Color.

[ZellSF]

I did some testing last. I did not see any difference. My b01 is made in China

I don't get it. I guess mine is a fluke?

Again, verify ALL settings on both consoles, and on the TV with both consoles connected. Tell us WHAT looks different (sharper is a bit too vague here) and failing a capture card take closeup pictures with a good camera, maybe we still can discern what makes the difference.

[citrus3000psi]

I did some testing last. I did not see any difference. My b01 is made in China

I don't get it. I guess mine is a fluke?

Again, verify ALL settings on both consoles, and on the TV with both consoles connected. Tell us WHAT looks different (sharper is a bit too vague here) and failing a capture card take closeup pictures with a good camera, maybe we still can discern what makes the difference.

Also make sure the PS3's have both the same Date & Time.

[Ikaruga11]

Also make sure the PS3's have both the same Date & Time.

And make sure the room is pitch black so no ambient light interferes.

[D]

If you noticed it, could be a difference. Could also be that you have some filters on (the already mentioned settings) are different between the consoles.
Full Range RGB, etc.
Perhaps the firmware did something. Interesting. Keep us posted.

[austin532]

I will as soon as I get it up and running again. (YLOD)

[bobrocks95]

I will as soon as I get it up and running again. (YLOD)

Lol, I considered posting earlier in the thread about the YLOD but decided not to. Was gonna say that even if the fat looks better, it's only going to look better for a couple months until it breaks.