How do you practice/train/improve?

[Icarus]

I've never personally pushed myself to play through the stress barrier. I don't envy anyone who does, because at the end of it it's just a game, and it'll always be available for you to play some other time. I guess if you really like the game enough, then pushing yourself a bit further might be beneficial as you might discover new tricks when you succeed. But you might succeed, or you could fail miserably, making the stress worse.

Personally, if I ever get to the point where I'm dying and restarting every five seconds, I just put the controller down, pick up my pentablet, and paint. Clearing your head by doing something relaxing is a far better alternative to tearing your hair out on some tiny little section you have no hope to pass when your head's all fogged up. You can always come back to it when you're in a better frame of mind. ^_-

[PaCrappa]

Pulling of the feat today or tomorrow is the same, as long as you know that you can do it...

That right there has become more my "mantra" with gaming. I think alot of times the above mentioned shooterbasketcases are putting themselves on some strange deadline. And that factor alone really intensifies the needless stress over something that is, at its essence, fairly trivial.

It's not like my knees are going to deteriorate to the point where I can't play shooters. I've got plenty of time here.

Pa

[professor ganson]

I use practice mode wherever it is available, and generally avoid credit feeding. In some cases I will spend more time in practice mode than in normal play. SnS II and Border Down come to mind.

[Randorama]

Pulling of the feat today or tomorrow is the same, as long as you know that you can do it...

That right there has become more my "mantra" with gaming. I think alot of times the above mentioned shooterbasketcases are putting themselves on some strange deadline. And that factor alone really intensifies the needless stress over something that is, at its essence, fairly trivial.

It's not like my knees are going to deteriorate to the point where I can't play shooters. I've got plenty of time here.

Pa

Ehr, shooterbasketcases? Beside that, i personally get pissed when i can't pull offf things or can't find how to improve. I lead a stressful life, so sometimes i'm really short of time to sit down and practice.

It's annoying for me to have just an hour of free time a day and start sucking in my gaming sessions. But frankly, i still have fun trying to learn. I would never make a comment like "oh, but i play for fun, mind you, not doing such a soulless thing like constant practice".

Not that any of the people in this thread have expressed such a point of view, but (as i said) there has been more than one case in which the viewpoint "learning=unfun" has been proposed here in this forum, hence the initial comment of mine.

Recapping a bit, a good way (for me at least, after all i have obtained some decent results, so it must work to some degree) to get results is

1. learning well how a game works
2.Find out how to exploit all mechanics stage per stage (or situation per situation, or whatever)
3.Putting things together and trying to perform them well
4.Coping with stress and fatigue accumulated from other activities,as gaming is still a relatively stressful intellectual activity


I'd add, good commands and set-ups, they do a consistent difference. If i can't pull off things, and the game has score attack modes, go for it, it's easier to discover new things by directly practicing the stage you want to analyze. Another good thing is hitting up the strategy section, two brains can be better than one.

After all, playing game is like any learning-based activity, once you have a method and you know what to learn, it's a matter of time.

[PaCrappa]

shooter basket case
n.
Slang. One that is in a completely hopeless or useless condition because he/she is unable achieve a desired goal within the confines of a shooter: “He immediately becomes a psychological shooter basket case, embittered to the point of craziness” (New York).

Pa

[Samudra]

Most things have been said already (observing, learning, &c). But since these are basic things which are the basis of life itself, you should have been applying these already.


1.

After all, playing game is like any learning-based activity, once you have a method and you know what to learn, it's a matter of time.

Truth. Once the method is there you are as good as done.
As Edwin Arnold once said: "It is just as easy to learn the binomial theorem, or Persian, or Sanskrit, or Euclid, or navigation, or chemistry, as it is to mow grass or shear a sheep. The secret is to be rightly taught, or to teach yourself rightly from the beginning, making sure of every step taken and bearing in mind that most learning is very simple".

Or Dune (just love it): "For the others, we can say that Muad'Dib learned rapidly because his first training was in how to learn. And the first lesson of all was the basic trust that he could learn. It is shocking to find how many people do not believe they can learn, and how many more believe learning to be difficult."

2. Read and/or watch (superplays) anything about the game that you can get your hands on. Try to find people playing that particular game (or genre) and discuss it with them.

3. Keep a diary. Note down your progress, mental states while playing, obstacles encountered, &c.

4. If you have a VCR or a capture card in your PC; use it.

5. Using credits is merely personal. It does not have a big impact besides shortening the time needed to 1cc.
When you reach a certain boss for the first time you can lose and not continue and play again from the start till you reach it. This is the long method.
Or you can simply continue a few times, learn his pattern quickly and probably beat him when you play from the start the next time.
Personally I like the first method, even if the boss or level is so difficult it will take me a lot of time to learn this way.

6. Should you lose a life very early there is no reason to restart. At the very least you can use the gameplay time and at best that still might be your best game ever.

7.

At any case, i've forgot to say: the restarting syndrome is usually a specific alarm sign, that you're too tired or not in the right mood. I always give up after the tenth restart at the first/second stage, it's useless to stress out in that way. Some days, work is simply too much to allow for other intellectual activities...sad, but sometimes it's not a shmup day. That's important to learn how to recognize the symptoms. In those cases, i suggest more creative/explorative playing...

I don't know such people myself (people who push themselves in videogaming), but I see now that this is an important point. If you start playing and there is no flow and you die at (early) places that should not be a problem; stop playing. There might be personal problems in your life, maybe you have a headache or other physical problem and try to play anyway or you are just tired.

This feeling of stress some people seems to experience while playing videogaming is not something that should be emulated in any path of life whatsoever (e.g. work, relations, &c). I would say neither videogaming nor any other activity in life is stressful. Only if you make it so.

8. One thing needs to be emphasised more and this is to take breaks between playing. With this I do not mean hours or a day even, but days or weeks altogether. This will allow your subconscious to process the information and you will perform much better than when you are playing continuously.

If you do all this and you are having no fun (anymore) then don't. Just don't think that it is impossible to take interests this far without having fun. Precision, not obsession, is the key.

Fun seems to be a thing brought up in different ways. You can train yourself to experience fun caused by many different things. For example when you love a certain game very much it doesn't matter if you win, lose or when it is (too) difficult even. Alien Soldier, Contra HC, &c. can beat me any day of the week and I will smile and enjoy. This is because I love the games themselves (the programming, graphics, music, &c) and my mastery (or lack thereof) is merely optional in my enjoyment (or actually completely optional).


Edit: Cosmetic.

[IlMrm]

I don't use any practice features in a game. And I don't have mame so I can't just practice a particular boss. As a result I keep bombing the patterns that give me trouble, instead of trying to find a way. I tell myself I'll try to dodge it, but when the time comes I don't want to waste a good run.

I always restart if I lose a life maybe up to stage five(Psikyo games).

[Diabollokus]

How do I improve?

Well I've found over the last 2 years I've played soo many shooters that its actually helped me play them.

In general I'd credit feed or keep playing until i've unlocked enough to clear the game. Then I'd start playing for real, such as only play with one continue, I'm doing this currently is silvergun and I'm going to keep doing it to I beat the dam thing on 1 credit.

Up the difficulty to max for a while then drop it down to normal. yeah I notice if I die on the first stage of a game I restart.. weird that.

[Marc]

Practising can be fun, my personal goal at the minute is the chaining of the first couple of stages on DDP. Not there yet, but I'm getting a kick of beginning to recognise the layout of the stage, in terms of score, enemies and chaining opportunities, and the growing realisation that they've been put together with an exact path and purpose in mind, which is becoming clearer to me with each run; if that makes any sense.

Yet I found the same process boring in certain other games, and those are the ones which led me to the point of frustration, because the enjoyment wasn't there and sucking made me want to quit rather than persevere. I have no desire to get any better at Mars Matrix because the game infuriates me, get Giga Wing 2 makes me want to try again straight away. I guess I'm trying to say that pushing yourself to practise a game that you're not finding any enjoyment in in the hope you'll eventually 'click' with it, is pointless, at least to me. There's always something else there to play that you'll probably find more to your taste so go find it.

Rambling, ignore me, I'm tired

[Shatterhand]

2. Read and/or watch (superplays) anything about the game that you can get your hands on. Try to find people playing that particular game (or genre) and discuss it with them.

3. Keep a diary. Note down your progress, mental states while playing, obstacles encountered, &c.

4. If you have a VCR or a capture card in your PC; use it.

You know, me PERSONALLY could never do this stuff. I can understand someone enjoying, but I really couldn't care to be "good" enough to go through the trouble of setting my VCR to record myself playing, and then watch a VIDEO OF MYSELF playing... this just sounds too stupid to me. I don't have all that much free time, and I'd rather spend this time PLAYING the goddamn game instead of watching it. Same thing with superplays, I could watch them once (And I rarely do) just for the "wow" factor, but I wouldnt pay much attention or try to mimick what the guy does. Even less I would have a diary (Though I tried this once with Cotton Boomerang)..

I personally find all this to be a waste of time. And after reading this post, I understand better why when I say it's better to just have fun, people go crazy about it. It's just that I DON'T CARE if my score is the best or the worst of the bunch, as much as I don't care if I can kick the ass of my friends in The King of Fighters or not. In the end, all I want is to have some fun really

[superhitachi4]

Play a lot, practice patterns. Intentionally fly into massive bullet clusters you could normally dodge, and try to find a way to weave through. Lots more, but doing that should help.

[Icarus]

It's just that I DON'T CARE if my score is the best or the worst of the bunch, as much as I don't care if I can kick the ass of my friends in The King of Fighters or not. In the end, all I want is to have some fun really

Some people derive their fun from analysis, some get it from just picking up the pad and playing, and some get it from both.

Don't knock it until you try it.

[Klatrymadon]

Then there are those who get their jollies from having random people on the net lavish praise upon them. I think that's what Shatterhand may have been getting at.

[Dave_K.]

Some people are more competitive than others, and you can't call them "stupid" for being so just because you don't believe in it. As long as these competitive people are having fun, what does it matter if they analyse their own playing with replays?

[Klatrymadon]

Aye, I certainly wouldn't seek to attack either approach. Neither is more worthwhile than the other.

[Randorama]

I personally find all this to be a waste of time. And after reading this post, I understand better why when I say it's better to just have fun, people go crazy about it. It's just that I DON'T CARE if my score is the best or the worst of the bunch, as much as I don't care if I can kick the ass of my friends in The King of Fighters or not. In the end, all I want is to have some fun really

Question is, do you find improving to be fun, or any possible method that could you could use to improve your skills is unfun? So far, your argumentations lead in this direction. You may find it "stupid" (which is actually the opposite, as it allows you to improve you faster instead of doing the same stage 100 times and doing at the same point every single time), but i doubt that your opinion ("using methods to improve skills is stupid" and not "i find unfun to improve skills"!) is too pertinent to facts.

EDITED THE LAST PARAGRAPH FOR COHERENCY, SORRY FOR THE MESS.


If you actually find it unattractive or boring, fine, then again, please don't use the word "stupid" associated to any learning practice like sitting down and see what you're doing wrong. You may still not be the SUPER CHAMPION IN THE UNIVERSE, but you could for instance be able to play well and enjoy your skillful perfomance. There's a vast gray area of people that enjoy to play well, even if this doesn't entail the first place in a top chart.

It is (do i need to prove this?) surely better and smarter than watching tv, for instance. And, unless you find funny to lie like a vegetable in front of the tv, funnier.

[PaCrappa]

And, unless you find funny to lie like a vegetable in front of the tv, funnier.

I dunno, I've seen Dave Chapelle do some pretty funny shit on tv. Much funnier than DDP DOJ. For instance.

Pa

[Randorama]

I dunno, I've seen Dave Chapelle do some pretty funny shit on tv. Much funnier than DDP DOJ. For instance.

Pa

Because everyone in the world sees and likes Dave Chapelle, of course (or plays DOJ, for the same argument). Personally, i prefer DOJ to US TV, it actively stimulates by rational swearing abilities, and a superior skill for prophanous creativity!

[Samudra]

2. Read and/or watch (superplays) anything about the game that you can get your hands on. Try to find people playing that particular game (or genre) and discuss it with them.

3. Keep a diary. Note down your progress, mental states while playing, obstacles encountered, &c.

4. If you have a VCR or a capture card in your PC; use it.

You know, me PERSONALLY could never do this stuff.

I can understand someone enjoying, but I really couldn't care to be "good" enough to go through the trouble of setting my VCR to record myself playing, and then watch a VIDEO OF MYSELF playing... this just sounds too stupid to me.

Imagine trying to beat Rocket Knight Adventures on Crazy Hard mode (1-hit death, no extra lifes (picking up 1-ups will count though) and no continues). This requires complete memorization of the game. You'll wish you had more advanced equipment than a VCR.

I don't have all that much free time, and I'd rather spend this time PLAYING the goddamn game instead of watching it.

Again, it all depends on what a person thinks is fun. There are people who get up early and run around on grass kicking around a spherical object. They enjoy this!

I don't even need to play the actual game to enjoy myself, but reading and solving a problem I encountered in a game will do it for me.

Same thing with superplays, I could watch them once (And I rarely do) just for the "wow" factor, but I wouldnt pay much attention or try to mimick what the guy does. Even less I would have a diary (Though I tried this once with Cotton Boomerang)..

I personally find all this to be a waste of time. And after reading this post, I understand better why when I say it's better to just have fun, people go crazy about it. It's just that I DON'T CARE if my score is the best or the worst of the bunch, as much as I don't care if I can kick the ass of my friends in The King of Fighters or not. In the end, all I want is to have some fun really

One does not have to be crazy to play in an indepth way nor does it mean one aims for (unreachable) heights.
You seem to be missing this point completely. A point which Rando and Icarus understand.

Really I am not crazy about gaming. I am a very irregular gamer even. Sometimes not playing for months! Yet, when I do play I like to do it properly.
Many people watch movies. Yet, how many people go deep in the meaning, symbols, techniques employed in a movie? It is the same with games.

In the end it comes down to a very bigoted view of what fun is. You might want to widen your horizon.

Edit: Spelling. Probably more in there as well.

[PaCrappa]

Because everyone in the world sees and likes Dave Chapelle, of course (or plays DOJ, for the same argument). Personally, i prefer DOJ to US TV, it actively stimulates by rational swearing abilities, and a superior skill for prophanous creativity!

Yeah, but is it funny?

Pa

[Zweihander]

Seems like the appropriate thread to say this...


Caffeine.


Ever hear of GOD COFFEE? It's a Japanese canned coffee drink. Maybe it's just me, but it sends my mind into overdrive. Like... seeing the bullets before they're there, in a Matrix-like fashion.

If you can't get ahold of God coffee (the Mocca flavor thereof is the best, IMO) then get some kinda coffee. I don't care if you don't like coffee. get a mocca frapuccino if you don't want the coffee-like taste. But caffeine is the way to go.

This was not a paid advertisement for God Coffee. I'm just pitching it since it's my preffered shmup juice.

[professor ganson]

Yeah, I do nearly everything better on coffee, but especially shmups. (I guess the most important exception: sleep.) I tried to play Raiden III today with a cold and no caffeine. Forget about it: I was simply pathetic, struggling even to get to level 3. And that should be automatic given how many bombs you get!

[Randorama]

Yeah, but is it funny?

Pa

For who?

Assuming that we have more than one drum, of course. And that rational argument isn't a-rational activity, also.

[incognoscente]

In the U.S. (where PaCrappa lives), at least, "funny" means humorous.
When American English is not the first language, it is often used to express "being fun".

I'm used to seeing it both ways and am not bothered by either. I think Pa is just having a laugh at the difference in meaning :)

[Shatterhand]

Sorry guys, I didnt mean to say anyone was stupid. I can understand someone watching replays or recording your own games to watch later, I can see how some people may find this fun. I mean that it would feel stupid to ME, ME and only ME would feel stupid doing that.

I am not attacking the ways you approach a game, not really, I just meant that I would not do that because *I* would feel stupid doing it. Really, I don't care if I am the best or the worst at the point of having to record me playing the game or making notes. This doesn't sound any interesting to me (Actually it sounds really boring). Like I said, I can understand someone may wish to dedicate his time to a game, or love the game so much that wants to understand every inch of the game. I really don't care that much about being good.

I am really sorry if I ofended anyone, I never meant that someone was stupid for training hard, making notes or anything like that. It was never my intention.

I think the big matter here is that I don't play to be good. I couldn't care less if I am the best or the worst player of a certain game (And I don't play only shmups, I play every kind of game, though action games usually are the ones I play the most). I am not playing to get good, I am playing because its a hobby, I am playing because its a way I find to have a good time. Making notes and watching records of me playing wouldn't be a good time FOR *ME* (Emphasis on *ME*)

And I do enjoy when I improve at the game, but it's not my primary focus. Its nice when I beat a boss for the 1st time for example. But this has to come in a natural way, not because I am studying the game like I was studying to get good grades in an exam (Which, IMO, is what "taking notes" feel). I learn in the process, but "learning" is not the what's more important. I don't mind doing the same stage 100 times, because I am not doing it to get good, like you. If the game is worthy, I will play it 100 times (I surely played the 1st stage of Aleste 2 more than 100 times)

And still I can get good at games. I may not have the best score in Dodonpáchi, but I think my scores in Zanac, Zanac EX and Aleste 2 are pretty impressive. (I held the hi-score for both Zanac EX and Aleste 2 in a big MSX site about hi-scores up until the site was gone). I am yet to find anyone who can beat me at Winning Eleven 2002 or Winning Eleven 8 - And I have won several local championships of both games (Not to mention Sensible World of Soccer, though I admit maybe I never found any real good opponentes). I 1 lifed Flashback, Sunsetriders, Streets of Rage 2, Aleste 2, Zanac EX, all in the hardest difficult when applicable. I can kick some ass in KoF 96&99 and Bloody Roar 2. I could reach 5th loop of Road Fighter. I've 1 CC Elevator Action Returns, and I think I will 1 life it someday (I got very close of doing it a couple of times).

There are more "gaming accolades" I've reached in my life, but I just wanted to point that MY PARTICULAR APPROACH to gaming has worked for getting good at the games I enjoy. But the point is that I only got this good in those games because I enjoyed them so much, that I played the hell out of them (Maybe none of those games are really hard, but oh well). I never needed to make notes or watching someone else playing those games to get good at them.

And theres one big problem about playing in a competitive way. I've seen people smashing controllers or get REALLY pissed off at those WE8 championships (And I mean REALLY pissed off). I dunno whats "competitive" means to you guys, but I hope its not that.

Again, it all depends on what a person thinks is fun. There are people who get up early and run around on grass kicking around a spherical object. They enjoy this!

I actually do that, being brazilian and all

It is (do i need to prove this?) surely better and smarter than watching tv, for instance. And, unless you find funny to lie like a vegetable in front of the tv, funnier.

I never watch TV for more than 5 minutes ..

[Zweihander]

Shatterhand -- Yeah, I was in that "try to immitate the super replay video" phase once. Actually, I picked up a few winning strategies from "Zak" watching an Ikaruga 1CC; I actually managed to emulate a few of his tactics, and branch off into making new ones for myself.

But I can't (nor would I want to) emulate his entire playthrough; I'm perfectly fine with my own tactics, when it comes down to it.

As for emulating Cave replays... fuck it. Just.......... fuck it. Those people have waaaaay too much time on their hands. Dancing between the bullets and such.

Fucking showoffs. lol...

[Shatterhand]

I've only watched two full "Super play videos" in my life, as far as I can remember.

One is that famous one from Super Mario 3

The other one was from Storm Caliber, the PC freeware shmup. I only watched because me and other 3 colleagues at work were playing this, competing for the best score (yes, at WORK. Great job I used to have back at that time ). When I told one of them that there was a video of someone 1LC the game, with a score 3 times bigger than his, he wanted to watch.

So we both watched, and I admit I copied a couple of tricks from him. B

[PaCrappa]

I think Pa is just having a laugh at the difference in meaning

Well what else is there to do around here besides getting linguistic on Mr Linguist?



Pa

[howmuchkeefe]

Lately, I've been credit feeding 'lunatic' on PCB to warm up for my easy/normal runs. I think it helps, but what I really need to do is play the game more often. If you do anything long enough, you can't help but get good at it.

[howmuchkeefe]

EDIT: duplicate post