Thunderforce V opinions?

[BulletMagnet]

TF5 isn't a personal favorite of mine (some of its flaws have already been mentioned, don't feel a real need to reiterate), but the PSX version is pretty cheap to buy, and gameplay-wise it's pretty much the same as the Saturn version (though graphically downgraded), so it's not a bad purchase if you don't expect perfection. The Saturn version can actually be had pretty cheaply too, if you're lucky (got my copy for 5 bucks, the PS version for one measly dollar)...forget about a reasonable price for the Special Pack though, heh heh.

[captain ahar]

i think GV is incredible, but there are much more gradius-y gradius games out there.

my list is as follows

II, I, Gaiden, V, III, IV (with V being ever so slightly better than III, and IV being a distant last)

[Turrican]

II, I, Gaiden, V, III, IV (with V being ever so slightly better than III, and IV being a distant last)

You're the man! I could make that list mine. ^_^

[captain ahar]

II, I, Gaiden, V, III, IV (with V being ever so slightly better than III, and IV being a distant last)

You're the man! I could make that list mine. ^_^

and incidentally Turrican, you were sort of right (not sure if you remember). i've become addicted to "the horz." still like verts better overall, but "the horz" (Gradius series in particular) tend to eat my shmupping life.

edit: from below link in turricans post

Gaiden is epic, Gradius V is just long.

i still love this.

[Turrican]

and incidentally Turrican, you were sort of right (not sure if you remember). i've become addicted to "the horz." still like verts better overall, but "the horz" (Gradius series in particular) tend to eat my shmupping life.

Ah ah, yeah I remember that! http://forum.shmups.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=234

told you so

[Zweihander]

It definitely ranks up there with G-Darius, just a notch below Einhander and R-Type Delta, IMHO. I got it for $3 in great condition with case and all, I'm not complaining.

[CMoon]

As far as psx shmups--the Pachis, Gradius Gaiden, Raiden DX, Toaplan shooting battle, Zanac Neo, etc... So many great games, why does Einhander deserve so much attention?

i never thought it did, so i'm confused too.

Coincidentally, I'd like to know as well....

This may be in part to blame:

http://www.classicgaming.com/shmups/rev ... index.html

[Ganelon]

As far as psx shmups--the Pachis, Gradius Gaiden, Raiden DX, Toaplan shooting battle, Zanac Neo, etc... So many great games, why does Einhander deserve so much attention?

i never thought it did, so i'm confused too.

Coincidentally, I'd like to know as well....

Here's my list of reasons (in order of significance, the first 1 being by far the most significant):

1. It's by Square. Thus, every Square nut knows about the game.
2. It was released in the US. That discounts every other shooter you listed.
3. It's not very difficult after some memorization since Americans on general can't stand difficult games.
4. It was very pretty for its time in full 3D since graphics do matter.
5. It's a somewhat scarce, used to be fairly expensive game that benefits from what I call "secondhand praise."

Anyway, Thunder Force V is excellent, a worthy successor to Thunder Force IV.

[professor ganson]

^^^ Ganelon's explanation is pretty satisfying. I might add that Einhander has a very stylish look, an interesting Japanese-German futuristic thing going on. I just don't think that the gameplay matches what you find in the games that CMoon lists.

[UnscathedFlyingObject]

Einhander isn't easy, I'd say about right. The game picks up pace slowly 'cause I usually have trouble from level 3 forward.

And someone forgot to mention there are some awesome enemy/bosses here not seen anywhere else.

[Turrican]

1. It's by Square. Thus, every Square nut knows about the game.

Not only it's Square, but it came at square's peak of popularity, when everything they released seemed gold. And it reinforced this opinion showing that Square was able to create a classic in every genre.

History later will show that Einhander was just the lucky occurrence in a series of flawed experimental products. Indeed, for their first shmup it's a very nice game.

[CIT]

Einhänder = best PSX Horizontal Shmup IMO.

Why?

- Designed for the hradware, and virtually flawlessly programmed.
- Great atmosphere, you can really tell that a lot of work went into creating a whole "world" around the game (not something you can say about Dondonpachi or Zanac Neo, for example, although they're also great games for different reasons)
- Fab soundtrack
- A unique and very fun weapons system, unmatched in the world of shmups (only Gaiares is slightly similar)
- Intuitive and fun chaining system
- Intense boss battles that reward you for speed, not milking
- Japanese version has the greatest shmup cover art ever.


Re Topic:

Can somebody detail the differences between SAT and PSX Thunderforce V? Which version should I be getting?

Also, what's extra in the SAT TFV Gold Pack? Is it worthwhile?

[Turrican]

Re Topic:

Can somebody detail the differences between SAT and PSX Thunderforce V? Which version should I be getting?

Also, what's extra in the SAT TFV Gold Pack? Is it worthwhile?

It's a very delicate question, you know. TF V on Saturn is "designed for the hardware, and virtually flawlessly programmed" to use your own words.

The PSX version adds some consistent extras, boss rush mode and such, but some of the in-game graphics have been downgraded in the process, for example stage 3 background. However this change doesn't affect gameplay, and the game has less slowdown.

But, above all else, PSX version is just a port. A fine port to its credit, but if you value games "designed for the hardware", you should go with the original.

Oh, and the Gold Pack comes with the OST cd, that's it.

Edit: a quick search and this thread showed up:

http://forum.shmups.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2817

I think some of the bonus of Perfect System are just too good to be missed, that's why if you get in love with the game you'll probably want both.

[Pshooter]

and does psx Souky own all the games we've been discussing?

eh? how does Souky compare to Einhander, r-type delta, TF5, and G-Darius?

[Nei First]

and does psx Souky own all the games we've been discussing?

eh? how does Souky compare to Einhander, r-type delta, TF5, and G-Darius?

Is this a mistake, or are there two of you?

EDIT: Ignore the question, must be a mistake.

[Turrican]

and does psx Souky own all the games we've been discussing?

eh? how does Souky compare to Einhander, r-type delta, TF5, and G-Darius?

Nei he's asking the same thing twice. Pshooter... Soukyugurentai is a great game, but why are you so obsessed with charts and rankings. How does it compare with the above mentioned games? First of all, is the only vertical of the bunch.

Look, the game is good and all. Find it cheap and buy. When you will buy yourself a saturn, if you're in love with the game, you'll have the chance to buy the superior port. It's that simple.

[Pshooter]

here's a question: what do you guys consider to be the best non-import overhead shmup on ps1? raystorm, raycrisis, one of the raiden games?

[marzzmatrix]

none of the above.

... i vote mobile light force 1, aka gunbird!

[Ganelon]

Raiden Project for sure (it's the only domestic "game") although Gekioh is great too.

[Rob]

TF5 is a mediocre followup to TF3 and 4, disproving me theory of shooter sequels always being better.

History later will show that Einhander was just the lucky occurrence in a series of flawed experimental products. Indeed, for their first shmup it's a very nice game.

This game has so much more going for it than the fifth game in a classic series (TF, obviously). This game is so much more polished and well designed (according to my rules of shumps design) that I can forgive the fact that it has checkpoints.

- Designed for the hradware, and virtually flawlessly programmed.
- Great atmosphere, you can really tell that a lot of work went into creating a whole "world" around the game (not something you can say about Dondonpachi or Zanac Neo, for example, although they're also great games for different reasons)
- Fab soundtrack
- A unique and very fun weapons system, unmatched in the world of shmups (only Gaiares is slightly similar)
- Intuitive and fun chaining system
- Intense boss battles that reward you for speed, not milking
- Japanese version has the greatest shmup cover art ever. Wink

Here's a smart person. Add:

- Weapon strategy unlike typical shooters. Weapon selection is critical, as is stockpiling certain weapons.
- Hidden bonuses, hidden weapons.
- Alternate paths.
- Challenging, unlike games such as TF5.

TF5 is bland, regressive, has a crap scoring system, which makes the game ten times easier. http://forum.shmups.com/forum/viewtopic ... =freerange

[Turrican]

TF5 is a mediocre followup to TF3 and 4, disproving me theory of shooter sequels always being better.

Well, duh! Who's the genius who came up with this great theory that the last is always the best?

This game has so much more going for it than the fifth game in a classic series (TF, obviously). This game is so much more polished and well designed (according to my rules of shumps design) that I can forgive the fact that it has checkpoints.

Hmm. You know, I won't debate everything you've written, but one could reply here that obviously a fifth episode does show its age compared to a first. A more correct comparison would be Einhander 5 vs TFV.

Then all the freshness and innovation of Einhander 1 would be an old memory, and the new one would appear as stale as TFV in your eyes.

[Rob]

Well, duh! Who's the genius who came up with this great theory that the last is always the best?

It seemed good until I hit TF5!

Hmm. You know, I won't debate everything you've written, but one could reply here that obviously a fifth episode does show its age compared to a first. A more correct comparison would be Einhander 5 vs TFV.

I think Gradius V is classic, so I don't think it has to do with number of installments than Technosoft's mishandling. I think the only positive thing they added was expanding upon the charge attack of the latter part of 4. Unfortunately it's the free range hogging all of the CRAW-power.

I think they should've tried to match TF4 (or exceed it). TF4's number of quality levels: 9 or 10, extra wide stages give it many alternate paths and a lot of room for wild boss fights. While TF5 has 2/3rds of the levels, a few which are complete duds (clunky space level?), and the boss battles feel very rigid and are wildly inconsistent in length (3 seconds - 1-2 minutes?). Bad bad game. Or maybe just average.

[Turrican]

I think Gradius V is classic, so I don't think it has to do with number of installments than Technosoft's mishandling.

Maybe so, but you're constantly comparing TF V to its predecessors. So it's hard to distinguish "true mishandling" from "not being able to live up to the legacy factor" in your critic.

You mentioned TF III in a recent thread. Which do you prefer, TF III or Einhander?

I think they should've tried to match TF4 (or exceed it). TF4's number of quality levels: 9 or 10, extra wide stages give it many alternate paths and a lot of room for wild boss fights. While TF5 has 2/3rds of the levels, a few which are complete duds (clunky space level?), and the boss battles feel very rigid and are wildly inconsistent in length (3 seconds - 1-2 minutes?). Bad bad game. Or maybe just average.

Nah, I don't think the length is an issue in TF V. And "inconsistent" boss battles could also be called "variety".

Sometimes in the past TF V was perhaps overhyped, this is true. I had to rethink my opinion on its soundtrack, for example. Still, try to watch it as a game on its own. I think average is a harsh term for this. It does have its share of qualities.

[Turrican]

It seemed good until I hit TF5!

So G V > G IV > G Gaiden > G III > G II > Gradius? I know you can't think so.

[Rob]

You mentioned TF III in a recent thread. Which do you prefer, TF III or Einhander?

Nostalgia aside, probably Einhander. Either way, both are high favorites.

I think I'll download all of the Gradius roms for MAME and get back to you on that one.

[chimpp]

I rank Einhander highly in my book, too. I'm surprised that no one mentioned one really unique feature of this masterpiece--most enemies that take more than one hit to kill can be blown up piece by piece. It really fulfills my sadistic tendencies to be able to slowly destroy an enemy mech piece by piece. In similar fashion, when you shoot a larger enemy, it pushes them back a little and throws off their balance for a moment. No boss battle is more satisfying in any shmup than the fourth level midboss--the "King Kong" mech in which you can blow up its fingers, hand, arms, leg armor, helmet, shoulder armor, backpack, and eventually its head. It's a challenge to destroy each piece before you finally retreat from battle or accidentally blow his head off. Should you ever get bored of the game, you can try playing an unlockable ship ("Die Schabe") with a radically different weapon upgrade system that drastically changes the gameplay. And then there are the weapons, soundtrack, graphics, the German announcer threatening you, and the challenge. Such attention to detail and replayability makes this a true innovation in Shmupping.

However, I rank G-Darius, Einhander, Gradius Gaiden, R-Type Delta and Zanac Neo as the best shmups on the PS1--too hard to choose one over the other. I really do feel TFV is a rather ugly game that has its moments, but is just a mess. The free range weapon screws up the balance and makes the game simply not fun enough. I would only play TFV for the boss fights in stage 4 (the transforming ship/mech) and 5 (the one against the ship from TF4).

In the middle of my list are Raystorm (which I'm now getting back into again thanks to the Taito Memories compilation), Raiden Project, Souky, TFV (barely) and Geki-Oh Shienryu.

In the bottom are Strikers 1945 II, Macross DYRL, Space Shot, Starfighter Sanvein, Cho-aniki, Project Gaia Seed, Raycrisis, Philosoma, and Night Raid. There are other PS1 shmups, too, but I haven't played them.

And as for semi-shmups, don't miss out Internal Section (by Squaresoft), Metal Slug X, and Gunner's Heaven.

[Nei First]

And don't forget the Pachi's too. I rank them as one of the best among the PSX shmups.

[CIT]

...and the Parodius Games and Harmful Park.

[Ganelon]

IMO, Stahlfeder ranks among the bottom. Kyuin, Airgrave, and Two-Ten Kaku are around average.

[chimpp]

I came real close to buying Stahlfeder and Two-Tenkaku on eBay but I kept hearing really bad things about them. However, I have played Harmful Park and as fun as it was, it was just TOO short! It could've been a masterpiece if they added some more levels.

I forgot to mention the brief period of time when I had X-Multiply and Image Fight. Really good games, but even tougher than the original R-Type--which is too tough for me! Image Fight had some good weapon variety and great level design. I didn't play X-Multiply as much because I didn't like the artistic direction--a little too organic for my tastes.