XIIZEAL coming to Steam, courtesy of Degica

[CStarFlare]

Purchased.

[DestroyTheCore]

Hold your breath, everyone. Blackbird is teasing us!

[Squire Grooktook]

0.4 hours and my fingers are about ready to fall off. I see people weren't kidding about the execution in this series.

I like it though.

[BBH]

One of the Steam reviews says there's a lot of input lag. Is that true? Is there noticeable input lag?

[trap15]

Holy shit a wild BBH appears

[brentsg]

I'm noticing a lot of input lag in everything I do tonight, but I haven't played the game yet. Did buy it though..

[Blackbird]

I'll let you guys weigh in on input lag - it seemed fine to me in testing, but I don't have basis for comparison because I haven't played the 360 version. If there is an input lag problem, I can get in touch with Triangle Service and see if we can improve responsiveness.

[Squire Grooktook]

One of the Steam reviews says there's a lot of input lag. Is that true? Is there noticeable input lag?

I have experienced zero. I feel none, and the old pause trick doesn't produce any either (unlike SDOJ, where it shows how awful the port is). That review is full of shit from what I can tell. If lag happens, it's not for every controller/computer/set up.

[brentsg]

I just followed Degica on Twitter, and Twitter immediately recommended that I might also like to follow an organization that gives help with alcohol and "other drugs".

[CloudyMusic]

One of the Steam reviews says there's a lot of input lag. Is that true? Is there noticeable input lag?

I didn't notice any at all.

[Cee]

Im just doing some runs now and haven't noticed any input lag.

[DoomsDave]

Insta bought. <3 Degica.

[emphatic]

Holy shit a wild BBH appears

[cave hermit]

So for those of you who have played both the MAME version and this new steam version, has the frame rate been improved?

From the steam preview video the port seems much smoother than the emulation in my experience, but I wasn't sure if I was imagining it.

Actually same question goes for comparison between MAME and the 360 version, which I'm also planning to pick up sometime.

[trap15]

MAME sucks for 3D hardware, so yes the ports are better.

[CStarFlare]

I'm liking this a lot. Can anyone who's spent time with XII ZEAL/Stag give us some pointers? Like, does the multiplier only apply when enemies are killed with the side/back shots, or is it applied for all kills? Boss kills? Bullets cancelled by bombs?

It's just weird when I end up with a stage 1 checkpoint lower than my best because it seems like there's not much that could cause a variation.

I'm assuming no extends?

On the forums here, does the game have differences in every port or is the only difference between them auto-spin or not?

[BPzeBanshee]

So for those of you who have played both the MAME version and this new steam version, has the frame rate been improved?

From the steam preview video the port seems much smoother than the emulation in my experience, but I wasn't sure if I was imagining it.

Actually same question goes for comparison between MAME and the 360 version, which I'm also planning to pick up sometime.

MAME and this should be running at the same speed providing you have a powerful enough machine and not stuttering. G-NET doesn't perform well in MAME as trap15 said, and there's several emulation issues present in the driver (not a lot of obvious ones with XII Stag but the music chip emulation is present but still poor). The most visually accurate is the PS2 version, the most gameplay-accurate is the 360 version because of the emulated slowdown component.

I'm liking this a lot. Can anyone who's spent time with XII ZEAL/Stag give us some pointers? Like, does the multiplier only apply when enemies are killed with the side/back shots, or is it applied for all kills? Boss kills? Bullets cancelled by bombs?

It's just weird when I end up with a stage 1 checkpoint lower than my best because it seems like there's not much that could cause a variation.

I'm assuming no extends?

On the forums here, does the game have differences in every port or is the only difference between them auto-spin or not?

No extends iirc. Multiplier applies to enemies killed with side shots and your thruster only. Applies to all enemies given the correct shot usage, including bosses. Bullets are cancelled by bombs but they're best used for Stage 4's hidden second half for the immortality and for panic attacks until you get to WR level playing where some spots may yield that extra bit of score.

I've been meaning to make a XII Stag/XIIZEAL ST thread for some time where I have the differences I'm aware of between all ports listed, but the differences to the best of my knowledge are aesthetic - the PS2 version retains the nice transitions and mirrored warning logo, XIIZEAL does not. The 360 port has emulated slowdown that's pretty accurate to the original hardware from the PCB videos I've seen online - MAME has none, neither do the other ports. MAME's emulation of the sound chip has come leaps and bounds in the last 2 years and some fixes in the last 2 days but nowhere near accurate yet.

[CStarFlare]

I think a list of hidden conditions is probably the thing we need most. What gives a Red stage 2 boss vs. blue? Stage 4 seems to have an optional second half, but there seem to be multiple paths from there - the 2nd half of Stage 4 in Kiken's video on youtube isn't like the 2nd half I've gotten. Stage 5 seems to have alternate routes as well. There might be an old XII Stag thread I can mine.

Do bombs drop every #th kill?

Very interesting game, but right now I feel kind of lost.

[cave hermit]

I just tested with the popcorn enemies at the very beginning of the game, and it does appear once you generate a multiplier with the side and back shots, the multiplier applies to normal kills as well.

[cave hermit]

I've been posting random hints on the steam discussions, so I might as well copy paste them here:

Another little scoring tip I just discovered: certain larger ships (for example the pair of large ships with red organic eyes in stage 2) have parts that can be destroyed for points before destroying the main body of the craft (In this case instead of attacking the top of the ships to destroy them immediately, attack their bottoms to destroy just that part, then finish off the top). You can really optimize scoring this way it seems!





...also if anyone happens to be in the market for a copy of postal 2 in exchange for this game, hit me up; I'd like to buy this, but I'm a bit strapped for cash here D:

Just discovered another little trick to optimize score: turns out there's actually another benefit to the thruster attack! When you're damaging enemies with the thruster exhaust, you get some points per second as long as you're dealing that chip damage; since the exhaust damage is so small, certain larger popcorn enemies (in particular, the ones that appear at the very beginning of the game) won't actually die instantly on contact with the exhaust, and will survive for an extra milisecond before dying if you keep the exhaust on them. This means that in addition to advancing the multiplier and getting the bonus for destroying the popcorn like you normally would if you had side killed it, you also get a little chunk of bonus points for inflicting chip damage with the exhaust before destroying it!

Be careful though: since these particular popcorns don't die instantly on contact with the exhaust, you can't fly backwards through them like you would normal popcorns or you'll crash into them. Instead you have to let them fly into your backside.

I don't know why I'm getting a sudden passion for this game. I'm not even very good at it.

[Kiken]

Do bombs drop every #th kill?

In general, item drops are influenced by the autofire frequency. The basic premise: keep firing as much as possible.

[Mero]

I think a list of hidden conditions is probably the thing we need most. What gives a Red stage 2 boss vs. blue? Stage 4 seems to have an optional second half, but there seem to be multiple paths from there - the 2nd half of Stage 4 in Kiken's video on youtube isn't like the 2nd half I've gotten. Stage 5 seems to have alternate routes as well. .

The red version of the stage 2 boss is triggered when your multipiler is at x12 when the boss "warning" happens. His base value is 30k instead of 10k.

The other optional paths are opened the same way (or at least the ones on stage 4 are), have the multiplier at x12 at certain points. On stage 4 if you kill the final gun emplacement at the bottom of the carrier at x12 you'll go into a section with large ships coming at you alternately from either side of the screen, which is worth a lot of points.

[BPzeBanshee]

I've started an ST thread for this here: http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=54084

Got one post dedicated to stage rundowns so we can add specific points where having the x12 multiplier for stage segments actually matters. My writing skill leaves a bit to be desired and I'm currently lacking any good pictures of stage parts and specific info (ie. what points excess powerups and bombs give you). Please help by contributing here so we can have all we know compiled in one place.

[HydrogLox]

The "MILLENIUM CRISIS XLLSTAG PAGE" is still available via the Internet Archive Wayback Machine.

http://web.archive.org/web/201109280847 ... /main.html

Thanks to Google Translate it may come in handy.

[P_HAT]

Oh my god, this is real. now i don't need to find CRT tv to play this game.

P.S. Zomg my password and profile is still up.

[RHE]

How can I unlock Trizeal?

[ciox]

How can I unlock Trizeal?

Is that what the "The true game is just beginning." achievement is about?

[Cee]

Ok so apparently the stage 7 boss completely changes the rules and can just ram kill you regardless of whether a bomb is in use or not, that's pretty trolly.

[cave hermit]

How can I unlock Trizeal?

Is that what the "The true game is just beginning." achievement is about?

I doubt you can unlock Trizeal: there's no way Degica would include an entire separate game as an undisclosed secret.

Shooting love 200x also has an achievement for unlocking all score attack modes with the description of "the true game is just beginning", so it's probably just implying that after you unlock the achievement you can really start practicing since you now have access to all the stages.

[CStarFlare]

Ok so apparently the stage 7 boss completely changes the rules and can just ram kill you regardless of whether a bomb is in use or not, that's pretty trolly.

Pretty sure this happens on the stage 2 boss as well. It's hard to tell what is safe to touch sometimes.