Shmups for a noob

Squire Grooktook · Post by **Squire Grooktook** » Sat Sep 20, 2014 10:18 pm

I actually agree that I wouldn't have enjoyed playing novice modes when I was new.

That being said, that's just me. And it's always best to listen to people and what they ask when trying to help/advise them. So it would probably be best if the OP made more clear what he means by "shmups for a noob"

Do you want a game that's easier to complete/1cc?

Do you want a game that has simple and easily understood mechanics?

Do you want a game that's really iconic and a good example of the genre as a whole?

Do you want a game that's really hardcore and deep and which you'll be able to go full hardcore on it as your first serious shmup?

etc. etc.

What ya in the market for bro

Lord Satori · Post by **Lord Satori** » Sat Sep 20, 2014 10:25 pm

Special World wrote:
Lord Satori wrote:This happens in every topic. I love how everyone always jumps to the same arcade stuff as well as ports and stuff you gotta pay for without mentioning the metric ton of free stuff there is out there.
Please list them instead of criticizing everyone else's input without providing any of your own. Thanks!

Okay, you asked for it. Let's see what I've got. *open's shmup folder*

Blue Wish Resurrection
Blue Wish Resurrection Plus
Eden's Edge
Eden's Aegis
Genetos (that's a fun one)
Kaikan
Minishooter Rs Delta
One Two Cagar label (normal version as well maybe, but I find the Cagar label more enjoyable)
Radio Zonde (It's got an immortal mode for practice)
XOP Ultra and XOP Black Ultra
rRootage (amazing shmup that's so small it could run on anything. essentially a danmaku trainer)
Warning Forever
Laser Carrot Attack
Tyrian
the shitload of material made for Danmakufu

There are probably a lot more, but that's what I could think of off hand.

Blackbird · Post by **Blackbird** » Sat Sep 20, 2014 10:29 pm

I should really just make a guide for this topic, it comes up a lot =P.

Patashu · Post by **Patashu** » Sat Sep 20, 2014 11:31 pm

MH5 wrote:OMG, all these replies overnight? Thanks for the suggestions, everyone.
One shmup series i've been playing lately and i'm absolutely LOVING are the Raiden Fighter series. I like it because there are so many different ways to play (Many fighters, Two types of upgradeable, chargeable shots, Different patterns for slaves, Different types of bombs.) I just like shmups with many choices and ways to play thru. I also like the Aero Fighters/Sonic Wings series and Strikers 1945 series.

Sorry if the topic was available already, but i was actually surprised there was no sticky to a compilation of these topics if there was so many.

Anyway, thanks everyone. I hope to get along in this community.

If you like those games you should also try the rest of the Psikyo shmups:
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=38524
(ctrl+f psikyo)
Sengoku Blade in particular, all the characters play differently.

e: You might also be interested in the Gradius series (+ Parodius, Salamander, Nemesis, Life Force...). Later games especially give you more and more loadouts to choose between. Don't just look at arcade releases either - for example, Gradius 3 [SNES] is considered by many to be more fun and balanced than the Arcade release it is quite dissimilar from.

There's also U.N. Squadron (SNES, Arcade) which has a money system and you can buy stuff for your plane between stages.

mehguy · Post by **mehguy** » Sun Sep 21, 2014 12:25 am

Skykid wrote: R-Type, Battle Garegga and Radiant Silvergun? Yeah they're pretty beginner friendly, dive right in.

Ha ha lol I guess I was being a bit excessive.

Lord Satori · Post by **Lord Satori** » Sun Sep 21, 2014 12:56 am

mehguy wrote:
Skykid wrote: R-Type, Battle Garegga and Radiant Silvergun? Yeah they're pretty beginner friendly, dive right in.
Ha ha lol I guess I was being a bit excessive.

Nah, we all know Hellsinker is the best shmup for beginners.

Squire Grooktook · Post by **Squire Grooktook** » Sun Sep 21, 2014 2:27 am

R-Type is fine for a beginner, methinks. But that depends on the game in question and how you play it (credit feed trying to clear the difficult checkpoints, or try for 1cc?).

R-Type 1 is pretty good for newcomers and advanced players either way imo.

gameoverDude · Post by **gameoverDude** » Sun Sep 21, 2014 3:28 am

Try Raiden DX and go with Alpha mission at first. The mechanics are not too complicated, though there are some secrets to find. Alpha has no continues, but can be done in about 14-15 minutes and is challenging but not overwhelming on Normal. Get a feel for it here, and eventually clear Alpha, then try Bravo.

RDX's complete lack of checkpoints may be a good thing. If you lose a ship, it will spawn a few power-ups so you're not starting from zero.

For a bullet hell, pick one of the Giga Wing series. I'll also give a vote for Blue Wish & BW Resurrection.

Skykid · Post by **Skykid** » Sun Sep 21, 2014 5:00 am

mehguy wrote:
Skykid wrote: R-Type, Battle Garegga and Radiant Silvergun? Yeah they're pretty beginner friendly, dive right in.
Ha ha lol I guess I was being a bit excessive.

When I saw you put Last Resort in the list I actually thought you were trolling. If I'd started playing shmups with that game I probably would have kept my distance for several years.

Blackbird wrote:I should really just make a guide for this topic, it comes up a lot =P.

I finally bothered to do it.

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=51696

Skykid · Post by **Skykid** » Mon Sep 22, 2014 5:05 am

Skykid wrote:
Blackbird wrote:I should really just make a guide for this topic, it comes up a lot =P.
I finally bothered to do it.

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=51696

Yeah, that's the last time I attempt that one. Too many closeted dicks here for sure.

Blackbird, be my guest, it's all yours bro (good luck!)

trap15 · Post by **trap15** » Mon Sep 22, 2014 5:06 am

Skykid · Post by **Skykid** » Mon Sep 22, 2014 6:12 am

trap15 wrote:what

You missed the furore of the Shmup recommendations for noobs thread yesterday.

It was initially set upon by actual noobs arguing that my suggestion of playing shmups on defaults was dumb and they should be allowed to set them to easy, before moving on to loli lovers and bedroom vampires telling me I should be listing games by series, adding a description for every game, and complaining that my criteria in the OP (which was clear and straightforward) should actually exist in multiple shades of grey and I should add some kind of encyclopedic entry to the index. An illiterate high scorer then chimed in to argue that if Bakraid Normal course was good for beginners then Battle Garegga should be there too, and his new best buddy and Touhouite complaining my criteria isn't everyone's criteria yadda yadda.

So I deleted the OP and a mod deleted the thread.

Short story: I forgot how many raging nerds there are this side of the forum. Never again.

Furry Fox Jet Pilot · Post by **Furry Fox Jet Pilot** » Mon Sep 22, 2014 6:18 am

gameoverDude wrote:Try Raiden DX and go with Alpha mission at first. The mechanics are not too complicated, though there are some secrets to find. Alpha has no continues, but can be done in about 14-15 minutes and is challenging but not overwhelming on Normal. Get a feel for it here, and eventually clear Alpha, then try Bravo.

RDX's complete lack of checkpoints may be a good thing. If you lose a ship, it will spawn a few power-ups so you're not starting from zero.

Are you serious? If you're playing for simply a survival clear, Mission Alpha is a piece of cake. But that's not what Raiden DX is about. To truly clear the missions in this game, you must be perfect at finding all the secrets and learning to not bomb or die while you're at it. Good luck to any beginner who attempts that! This is the game I've spent the most time with, and even I haven't successfully looped Alpha or Bravo yet. I've only 1cc'd them. Mission Charlie is another story though.

Emuser · Post by **Emuser** » Mon Sep 22, 2014 7:55 am

Guardian Force bitches

Bananamatic · Post by **Bananamatic** » Mon Sep 22, 2014 8:12 am

i don't really get any of this "shmups for noobs" stuff

you guys make it sound like if a first timer plays garegga or ketsui and fails to 1cc, the game bites your dick off and kills your family
just try the best stuff from the big names and stick with what you like

the only real advice is playing stuff above what you feel comfortable with to improve faster if you want to improve rather than going for easy clears

Skykid wrote:actual noobs arguing that my suggestion of playing shmups on defaults was dumb and they should be allowed to set them to easy

doujin shmups generally don't have defaults

Patashu · Post by **Patashu** » Mon Sep 22, 2014 8:29 am

Bananamatic wrote:i don't really get any of this "shmups for noobs" stuff

you guys make it sound like if a first timer plays garegga or ketsui and fails to 1cc, the game bites your dick off and kills your family
just try the best stuff from the big names and stick with what you like

the only real advice is playing stuff above what you feel comfortable with to improve faster if you want to improve rather than going for easy clears

^
^^
^^^

a 'noob advice guide' should be like
-how to find the kind of shmups you enjoy (like a decision tree kind of thing)
-how to practice and how not to practice
-if you're not having fun, try something else or take a break
-<end>

Zaarock · Post by **Zaarock** » Mon Sep 22, 2014 8:45 am

I really don't see the point of why beginners should go for 1ccs from the start, why can't a beginner just credit feed (but simultaneously try to improve) in Dodonpachi, Ketsui or another harder but popular game if they happen to like how it plays. Same with practice modes. If a player likes the game enough chances are he will go for more challenging runs. No one is going to give a shit about some shmups farm cred for 1ccing a game on default settings if they don't yet enjoy the genre.

Skykid · Post by **Skykid** » Mon Sep 22, 2014 9:12 am

Let's just never have this thread again. Boycott for the next one.

nasty_wolverine · Post by **nasty_wolverine** » Mon Sep 22, 2014 10:20 am

All noobs should start with HELLSINKER.
It has enough mind fuckery that if they ever get through with it, no other shmup can surprise them anymore.

Blinge · Post by **Blinge** » Mon Sep 22, 2014 11:19 am

Aww I missed the recent Skykid drama =[

Bananamatic wrote:i don't really get any of this "shmups for noobs" stuff

you guys make it sound like if a first timer plays garegga or ketsui and fails to 1cc, the game bites your dick off and kills your family
just try the best stuff from the big names and stick with what you like

the only real advice is playing stuff above what you feel comfortable with to improve faster if you want to improve rather than going for easy clears

This, I guess. It's how I got here.
"Wow Progear's fucking awesome, shmups are great, except I only wanna play Progear for months.."

Skykid · Post by **Skykid** » Mon Sep 22, 2014 11:27 am

You realise by the rationale you're all suggesting that there is effectively no such thing as 'shmups for beginners', only 'the best shmups'.

So like I said, next time someone asks for recommendations for beginners (in a few days) just tell them to stop bothering everyone and look through the forum to see what's popular.

Squire Grooktook · Post by **Squire Grooktook** » Mon Sep 22, 2014 11:32 am

Zaarock wrote:I really don't see the point of why beginners should go for 1ccs from the start, why can't a beginner just credit feed (but simultaneously try to improve) in Dodonpachi, Ketsui or another harder but popular game if they happen to like how it plays. Same with practice modes. If a player likes the game enough chances are he will go for more challenging runs. No one is going to give a shit about some shmups farm cred for 1ccing a game on default settings if they don't yet enjoy the genre.

I think credit feeding should generally be discouraged because it might give a sense of boringness, destroying the tension. However I agree that starting with 1cc's aren't needed. My advice would be to set small goals for yourself and have fun trying to achieve them. When I was starting out, my first goal was a 3cc of Darius Gaiden. That was pretty fun. If I had just been credit feeding over and over trying to gradually improve, I don't think I would have learned as much or had as much fun (no tension per run).

But that's just me.

Blinge · Post by **Blinge** » Mon Sep 22, 2014 11:33 am

Or put Illyrian's sig in the forum FAQ

Disregard that; it's now just a picture of some kinda pig girl bent over...
..actually yeah put it up

Patashu · Post by **Patashu** » Mon Sep 22, 2014 12:18 pm

Skykid wrote:You realise by the rationale you're all suggesting that there is effectively no such thing as 'shmups for beginners', only 'the best shmups'.

So like I said, next time someone asks for recommendations for beginners (in a few days) just tell them to stop bothering everyone and look through the forum to see what's popular.

Read my post.
The correct answer to 'I'm a noob, what shmups are good for me' is 'that post I just made if you made it an actual post'
Just because the question sounds like they're asking for a list doesn't mean the answer should literally be a list. It can be an indication that they need to be told certain things. Why wait for them to ask?

LordHypnos · Post by **LordHypnos** » Mon Sep 22, 2014 12:49 pm

srsly tho, rRootage. I wish I had discovered that one years ago.

Skykid · Post by **Skykid** » Mon Sep 22, 2014 1:55 pm

Every time people ask for shmup suggestions to get started, everyone posts lists. I attempted to designate a thread where the criteria was 'shmups for beginners' listing titles that were fun, moderately challenging (Bakraid, Batsugun) and served as good entries into the different subgenres, referencing Espgaluda, Mushi, Deathsmiles under Danmaku and assorted others elsewhere.

The only reason the message isn't allowed to exist in that basic format is because this forum is full of wittering weeaboos.

So stop talking and start doing. Looking forward to seeing your thread.

Teufel_in_Blau · Post by **Teufel_in_Blau** » Mon Sep 22, 2014 6:54 pm

Lord Satori wrote: the shitload of material made for Danmakufu

Is there actually a website which has a list with "good" Danmakufu scripts? From time to time a thread pops up about a decent one but as far as I see we don't really have a thread dedicated to those games, which I find kinda odd tbh. I would make one but I don't have the knowledge to create one, so a thread by me would essentially be a "Post em!" which would only create more hate and disrespectful name calling, which I would love to avoid...

MH5 · Post by **MH5** » Mon Sep 22, 2014 7:04 pm

OMG people stop replying so fast, i can't reply to you all at once

Anyway, when i said i wanted "Shmups for a noob" i didn't want an easy game, but as someone who doesn't know a lot of shmups, i wanted suggestions. I'm open to anything, really. I just don't want shmups that are TOO unforgiving.

Also, i'm not really against credit feeding. To learn the later stages, i must actually get there, and since i'm a noob, i probably won't be able to without credit feeding a bit. Of course, the more i learn, the less credits i'll feed

Overall, i never disliked a shmup for it's mechanics. The only one i didn't really like that much was the "Polarity system" used on Ikaruga and similars, but maybe if i stop and actually learn it i might enjoy it a bit more.

Thanks for the suggestions, everyone. I know everyone has it's opinions and 99% of this thread is subjective, but it's nice to have a few games i can try.

Lord Satori · Post by **Lord Satori** » Mon Sep 22, 2014 7:38 pm

Teufel_in_Blau wrote:
Lord Satori wrote: the shitload of material made for Danmakufu
Is there actually a website which has a list with "good" Danmakufu scripts? From time to time a thread pops up about a decent one but as far as I see we don't really have a thread dedicated to those games, which I find kinda odd tbh. I would make one but I don't have the knowledge to create one, so a thread by me would essentially be a "Post em!" which would only create more hate and disrespectful name calling, which I would love to avoid...

Most of the ones that can be called "good" are cancelled projects, but a few completed ones can be found at http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Fangames. (just scroll down a bit)

Teufel_in_Blau · Post by **Teufel_in_Blau** » Mon Sep 22, 2014 7:52 pm

Holy Cow! Thanks for the link! Currently I am watching "Touhou Soccer Moushuuden" on Youtube and I wish all soccer games were like this, lol. I think I need to check out this Touhou scene more closely, it seems I was missing out.

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