TGS 2014

[Skykid]

Good lord...Final Fantasy's characters look like K-Pop boy band.

It's awful isn't it?

I mean I've been done with Final Fantasy for at least a decade now - the name has become a dirty word that conjures images of weeaboos, chronically dull turn based battles and endless gaming boredom.

But Lord, they're not doing a great deal to entice, and I'm happy not to be the target audience. Action based is definitely a plus but the characters are so disgusting it's impossible to get past.

[Jonathan Ingram]

Real-time battle systems are not intrinsically superior to turn-based. The execution is what matters.

[mastermx]

Final fantasy has ceased being an Rpg. It is now an interactive movie with some mashing here and there. Bring back the menus and turn based combat.

This is just like the fail of resident evil, which ceased being survival horror. Action based combat is not always a good thing.

[Formless God]

It is now an interactive movie

Because it has never been an interactive movie before, right? Are your nostalgia goggles so thick that you conveniently forgot all the fucking hours of unskippable text that you had to slam one button through?

with some mashing here and there

Of course you never, ever had to mash anything before because having all the time in the world to pick out commands from a menu is such a challenging and non-repetitive activity for intellectual people!

Yeah Type-0 was pretty fucking awesome actually, especially compared to Square's other recent output. I never understood why they never localised it.

They are doing it now.

[mastermx]

@formless god
You clearly don't understand rpgs.

[Squire Grooktook]

Final Fantasy with action based combat would be great IMO. They should have embraced Kingdom Heart's style combat a decade ago. Honestly, FF has never really been about "role playing". Ever since the second game on the Nes, they've more or less been linear story telling games with rpg based mechanics and stats. As Formless God said, they've always been more or less interactive movies, story wise.

I honestly think Action would always have been better for them. Maybe not in the SNES days when smart ai controlled party members would have been harder to pull off, but now I think it would work. Leave turn based to the games about actual role playing like SMT, Etrian Odyssey, Rogue Likes, etc.

And believe me, I like turn based combat. There's definitely some advantages there. But Final Fantasy finally making the jump to action after being stale for quite some time isn't the greatest loss. Now if only that aesthetic and story telling wasn't so bad...

[mastermx]

I disagree, modern rpgs introduced lines and lines of text. Play the first few final fantasies or dragon quest. Even chrono trigger, with all the text here and there, it's mostly about exploring the world and the mechanics of the combat.

The reason final fantasy games have started to suck is because of the move to linear gameplay, they have no exploration and are filled with long ass cut scenes. If I wanted any of that I'd play visual novels or hell even watch a movie. If I wanted an action game, I'd play an arcade game or some thing like Dmc.

All I want is a typical Rpg story. I want some bad guy wanting to destroy the world. I want turn based combat with plenty of customization and thought. I want open worlds and towns to explore. Final fantasy games used to have all these things. 12 whilst it departed from the ff formula was still good in that respect.

Final Fantasy with action based combat would be great IMO

That's the point. If that's what it has. Then it shouldn't be called final fantasy. They shouldn't just slap a name on it to sell it. When I see a game with the title final fantasy on it. That's what I want to get, an ff game. Same formula, same love. If it ain't broke don't fix it. There are plenty of action rpgs out there to fill that void. But it's when they muddy the name of the an already established franchise with some emo Shit, and try to appeal to the cod masses, that's what really grinds my gears.

[Squire Grooktook]

I disagree, modern rpgs introduced lines and lines of text.

Rpg's have always been like that.

The reason final fantasy games have started to suck is because of the move to linear gameplay, they have no exploration...I want open worlds and towns to explore. Final fantasy games used to have all these things.

Final Fantasy has always been extremely linear. There's always been one, defined route you have to go, and nothing else will remotely advance the story. Side Quests have existed in the series but (with a few exceptions) were almost always very short, very late game, and more payed off in terms of strengthening your characters rather than any kind of story or world building pay off (again, a few exceptions).

The difference is, the old games masked their linearity better. They made you think it was non linear even when you were 100% on rails the entire time. That's just good game design, not a difference in vision.

That's the point. If that's what it has. Then it shouldn't be called final fantasy.

This might be a valid point if action rpg's weren't a thing. You can have action and still fundamentally be an rpg. Dark/Demon's Souls has more legitimate strategy, customization, preparation, and role playing than pretty much any Final Fantasy game.

Like I said, I don't mind turn based combat. I enjoy it. But I feel Final Fantasy has always been uniquely unsuited to it with it's ultra linear story telling and gameplay progression. For the early installments, turn based may have been the best. But now I just feel that type of combat just doesn't make sense for a totally on rails game with zero true role playing like FF.

[mastermx]

Well just to clarify I have nothing against narrative based games. In fact I like them. I like asura's wrath, I like phoenix Wright, I like manga, I like plot and story. What I don't like is when something blatantly isn't final fantasy being passed off as final fantasy.

Imagine if they made a seiken densetsu game that wasn't an action Rpg, or a zelda title that was an srpg. For every spinoff they make, that slap the ff title on it, because they know it will make it sell.

[Squire Grooktook]

I just think the series is better suited to it. They should have embraced it ever since the ps2 days when Kingdom Hearts showed Square could have a party based arpg with boss battles that completely captured the feel of FF's turn based boss fights.

I know this is subjective, but I simply see no reason why FF should stay turn based, or should ever have been turn based besides technological imitations. Turn based combat is about simulation. It's inherently linked to role playing and the concept that the player is the one in these situations and that the combat and mechanics are simulating what would happen. There is no role playing in FF. There is no player character, and every character is defined entirely by their own choices and not those of the player. There is nothing the player can do to change the outcome of the story other than getting a game over, everything is set in stone.

I don't see any reason to simulate combat when the player has no part in the combat or story. At that point, you might as well give the player a direct part in the gameplay instead of simulating what is going to happen to the characters, since everything else is out of their hands anyway.

But that's just me. I know it's subjective etc. etc.

[mastermx]

Yeah it is quite a subjective matter. I guess I've gotten used to the IP as it was. It just seems like Square has a series reboot for each iteration these days. Not gonna lie, apart from the pop band looking characters, the trailer did surprise and peak my interest. Judging from most game trailers these days, they tend to be awefully deceptive, but their innovation does look interesting. One day I hope they appease the old school series fans with a turn based game.

P.S. Your post count is 1337

[Lord Satori]

I love all the Final Fantasy hate going on. Square Enix hate is so pathetic it's among touhou hate tier. I mean, really... Anyway, this game is supposed to be based more off of a real life scene (mixed with FF of course), so obviously we aren't going to have brightly colored spikey haired characters with crazy ass zipper covered clothing. Also, when you've created so many characters, it becomes harder and harder to make them each unique without being comparable to another. I have first hand experience on this matter. That being said, they do look sort of samey as well.

As for the whole turn based versus real time, I don't think a game should be restricted to one or the other just because it belongs a particular franchise. Not all Mario games are platformers, not all Touhou games are vertical scrolling shooters (yes the main ones are, but that isn't my point), and not all [insert additional comparison here].

For every spinoff they make, that slap the ff title on it, because they know it will make it sell.

This is so off base. You do know that for the game's entire development, even since it's been FF Versus XIII, it's been a final fantasy game, right? This game was originally supposed to take place within the FFXIII timeline, so of course it's going to have "Final Fantasy" in the title. By the way, they've had this style of combat in other titles, too.

[Skykid]

But it's when they muddy the name of the an already established franchise with some emo Shit, and try to appeal to the cod masses, that's what really grinds my gears.

I don't understand. I thought FF had basically been a mainstream pack of spin-offs made for emos and cosplayers for years and years. You talk about this like it's a relatively new development.

They're no longer games with invention and personality, but the equivalent of a cobbled together big budget Hollywood movie starring non-actor celebrities from Gackt and various TV dramas.

Real-time battle systems are not intrinsically superior to turn-based. The execution is what matters.

I agree, but I find TB games a greater undertaking. I steel myself and get into a state of zen patience before hitting new game. That's just preference though.

[Immryr]

so, no mention of the last guardian yet.....? haha

[NTSC-J]

Anyway, this game is supposed to be based more off of a real life scene (mixed with FF of course), so obviously we aren't going to have brightly colored spikey haired characters with crazy ass zipper covered clothing.

So magic powers and dragons are ok, but we need characters that look like Japanese hosts so that it stays grounded in reailty?

Also, when you've created so many characters, it becomes harder and harder to make them each unique without being comparable to another.

You're reaching really, really hard, man. There is a galaxy of possible character designs or types that would be more interesting than what they went with here. I can't related whatsoever to the person who opens up the latest Weekly Famitsu and says "Yes, finally, the game for me" when they see these goofy creeps casting phoenix downs on each other.

Edit: Funny side note. Every morning, I have to walk about ten minutes from the train station to my work. First, I pass through the red light district where you see the real versions of these permed freaks getting over last night's hangover. Once I get through there, I pass right by Square Enix headquarters. Evidently, the water supply in Shinjuku is flowing with bad taste, and they really should consider moving to a neighborhood where the locals have better character designs.

[Khan]

Think its more down to what sells, since they know the direction the franchise has taken with even women loving the series they want those character designs to appeal to the masses and most of the fanbase will lap that shit up, I mean who doesnt want to choose a party of J-hosts/Visual Kei inspired PC's and beat some monster ass?

You would think though after 14 iterations there really would be a "Final" fantasy.

[Skykid]

I can't related whatsoever to the person who opens up the latest Weekly Famitsu and says "Yes, finally, the game for me" when they see these goofy creeps casting phoenix downs on each other.

Edit: Funny side note. Every morning, I have to walk about ten minutes from the train station to my work. First, I pass through the red light district where you see the real versions of these permed freaks getting over last night's hangover. Once I get through there, I pass right by Square Enix headquarters. Evidently, the water supply in Shinjuku is flowing with bad taste, and they really should consider moving to a neighborhood where the locals have better character designs.

Lol

You would think though after 14 iterations there really would be a "Final" fantasy.

Considering how offensive it's become I'm starting to wish there was.

[Teufel_in_Blau]

[Drum]

[Teufel_in_Blau]

More footage from the TGS:


http://youtu.be/Yu22KVnlAGg
http://youtu.be/X22v_kHSPNo