Isometric Games

[Obiwanshinobi]

I wanted to like Zax: The Alien Hunter, only to end up wishing it supported gamepad. It does not control like Diablo - if memory serves, you select one direction of shooting out of eight using a mouse (rather than picking a particular target).

I keep wondering why so few isometric games (rather than abstract 2D shooters) map movement separately from aim. Apocalypse (not always isometric view, but sometimes), Alien Syndrome (Sega Ages remake), Gauntlet Dark Legacy (Robotron mode), even Soldiers: Heroes of World War II and Alien Syndrome for the Wii controlled well with either twin sticks or mouse and WSAD/Wii controller(s).
Is it an option in X-Men Legends II: Rise of Apocalypse? I read it's a decent Diablo II clone (not my favourite Diablo game, but still - PC could use more Diablo-likes with local co-op).

[Ed Oscuro]

Get your eyes checked, man.

OK, I shall consult an optometrist and explain that I can see colors and angles in that vid and Ed says I shouldn't because the character is a cartoon sketch and he likes Diablo 2 and Crusader: No Remorse better.

Maybe they'll prescribe me some new special Ed glasses.

I'm sure it's a cute little touch-based puzzle game (with limited palette and details) and not bad or poorly designed - but it's not exactly the second coming of Christ, and probably not that interesting to many arcade-oriented people on the Forum. Thanks for sharing, I guess.

[Lloyd Mangram]

edit: On reflection, I've removed my short but needlessly condescending reply as being not relevant to the thread or conducive to discussion.

Ed, I think you may have taken my "behold the glory" too literally, given your remark about the game not being the second coming of Christ. That was just meant to be a kind of colorful way of introducing a game that I think looks pretty neat, and that does some cool little tricks with the isometric view in the manner of Echochrome.

It also occurs to me that my 'Ed Oscuro glasses' pic, which I intended to be jovial, may have been more irksome than I appreciated, and I apologize if that's the case.

[BryanM]

I keep wondering why so few isometric games (rather than abstract 2D shooters) map movement separately from aim.

I think it has to be a combination of how it's hard for a lot of casuals to pick up, combined with how it adds a layer of shallowness due to so much controller space being taken up. That one aliens-themed platformer, Abuse, is maybe a bit overwhelming at the start though still a lot of fun; you'd need buttons on top of two joysticks to simulate the mouse+keyboard controls. And of course, Smash TV is eight buttons to accomplish just two things: Move and Shoot.

The ability to incorporate depth into a game is one of the style's strong points; being able to jump like in Landstalker (and Tactics Ogre) or drive a vehicle like in Cobra Triangle is a big deal to me.

Isometric naysayers, behold the isometric glory of Monument Valley

If it makes you feel any better, I thought it looked pretty.

Just imagine your favorite vert or horiz shooter looking like Viewpoint. Would you still think that the game is equally good?

Dangun Feveron would be a horrible mess with a diagonal movement axis, so all it'd do is have a Space Harrierish/Tempest style quarter view where you can move "into" the screen. Just a cheesy 2.5d effect.

[Ruldra]

Isometric naysayers, behold the isometric glory of Monument Valley:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wC1jHHF_Wjo

This trailer is reminding me of Little Big Adventure (released exactly 20 years ago). Coincidentally, another excellent isometric game.

[BrianC]

I can't believe I forgot the SMS Enduro Racer. Good stuff!

[EmperorIng]

I was never really warm on isometric platformers, but some are quite good. Dark Savior is an excellent game (and for my money, the best affordable RPG on the Saturn), and Light Crusader is good silly fun. The Strike games are also decent for what they are in the isometric perspective (though Urban Strike is mediocre).

Super Mario RPG is isometric as well, as are the Fallout games, but I don't think that's what you meant when you were venting your frustrations. RPGs were never really hampered by isometric perspective.

I haven't played Landstalker yet, but I assume it's good (if anyone here can second that assessment!).

Cannot believe the uninformed hate on Viewpoint, my favorite game, ever.

I'm getting a flash of dejavu here...

[boagman]

Cannot believe the uninformed hate on Viewpoint, my favorite game, ever.

I'm getting a flash of dejavu here...

I'm not catching your drift.

[eckart]

I never forget when i first saw zaxxon for the collecto vision when it cames out in the early 80ies.
It was at karstadt a german shopping center. In the back i heard baby jane from rod steward coming from the record corner.

Later my brother get a c 64 from a friend with lots of games.
I remember blue max and racing destruction set. Both awesome isometrical games.

On the atari st i remember airball. It was a realy good game.

There was a isometrical pc game shooter mid of the 90ies. Good grafics. I didnt could manage to instal it.
Cant remember the name. Something like "the ..." or something like that.

[Mortificator]

^ The Reap, maybe?

As for Zaxxon, the game's history is darkened by its shocking connection to youth violence.

Is it an option in X-Men Legends II: Rise of Apocalypse?

It's been a while, but I don't remember such an option in the PC version. I'd think I'd have taken advantage of right-stick aiming if it was there.

[Ed Oscuro]

edit: On reflection, I've removed my short but needlessly condescending reply as being not relevant to the thread or conducive to discussion.

Ed, I think you may have taken my "behold the glory" too literally, given your remark about the game not being the second coming of Christ. That was just meant to be a kind of colorful way of introducing a game that I think looks pretty neat, and that does some cool little tricks with the isometric view in the manner of Echochrome.

It also occurs to me that my 'Ed Oscuro glasses' pic, which I intended to be jovial, may have been more irksome than I appreciated, and I apologize if that's the case.

Yeah, thanks for that - sorry also for being more of a downer than I should have been

The trailer actually hits one of my pet peeves - the game looks nice but the very beginning, with the zoomed-in scene, really showcases one of the sides they shouldn't dwell on - that small areas of the screen often have few details or colors. The game's visual strength is in the full-screen compositions.

[Lloyd Mangram]

@Ed

Understood. Actually, one of my biggest pet peeves as far as iOS games go is perhaps not a million miles from your own -- namely, the way so many iOS puzzle games lately use only basic shapes, flat colors, thin lines and spindly fonts (hello Helvetica Neue Ultralight), obviously taking their cues from iOS7's design. Not only do they all start looking a bit samey, but there's a whiff of Applebot herd behavior to it.

tbh, I was in a bit of a silly/hyper mood yesterday because I had finally resolved a problem that had been bugging me, but today new problems have arisen to restore the balance.

Back to isometric games:

I'm curious to see how Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity turns out. They're certainly sticking to the iso style. Possibly not even going to provide camera rotation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKoDTzea79Y

[BrianC]

Cannot believe the uninformed hate on Viewpoint, my favorite game, ever.

I'm getting a flash of dejavu here...

I'm not catching your drift.

Yeah, Deja Vu is first person, not isometric.

[Obiwanshinobi]

The ability to incorporate depth into a game is one of the style's strong points; being able to jump like in Landstalker (and Tactics Ogre) or drive a vehicle like in Cobra Triangle is a big deal to me.

Apocalypse uses all four triggers of PlayStation gamepad and you get to explore pretty complex and varied environments for its time. Platforming is hit and miss, but it's the camera and framerate that get in the way now and then, not the controls.

[Ed Oscuro]

I don't think framerate was that big a problem in Apocalypse, which is often kind-of isometric but switches perspectives often.

One, on the other hand...

[Obiwanshinobi]

I only had a real problem with framerate/camera at one point in Apocalypse, but it was infuriating (shortly before the last bossfight, I kept falling into some lava which lead to replaying the stage all over again).

[Kiken]

OG X-Com, X-Com 2 and even the more recent Enemy Unknown are some isometric goodness.

Also, Prikura Daisakusen plays quite well for an isometric game.

[Obiwanshinobi]

I need a word of advice about the Arcus franchise. Are there any remarkable differences between Arcus Odyssey on Sharp X68k, MD and SNES? What ARE all the other Arcus games (such as Arcus Pro 68k)? The same genre (co-op action-adventure)? Is Arcus Odyssey on Sharp X68k any good if you can't read Japanese?

[cicada88]

Paper boy has already been mentioned, but Atari 720 is one of my favorites too.

Also, the Kairosoft sim games like Game Dev Story & Hot Spring Story are really great too.

[Ruldra]

Also, the Kairosoft sim games like Game Dev Story & Hot Spring Story are really great too.

As a F1 fan, I enjoyed Grand Prix Story very much. I especially liked the attention to details, like how the layout of the car drastically affects its characteristics (FWD cars are cheap, RWD cars have better handling, AWD cars are better at off-road racing - everything correct in real life) and how the cars you can develop behave (cigar cars have great speed but poor handling, wing cars have superb handling). Also the fact that you scrap your car and collect the data to develop a better one is exactly how it works in F1.

Very fun little game, and pretty tough to win all races (including the secret ones) in the alloted time.

[Tarma]

I kinda miss seeing isometric games... some great examples include: Head Over Heels, Batman, Escape From The Planet of the Robot Monsters, Fifa '95... and Viewpoint is still pretty cool imo.

[Ed Oscuro]

Batman

The PC Engine one?

Escape from the planet of blahblah is an interesting game - I looked it up in MAME some time ago. Very colorful, that's my major memory of it.

[boagman]

I kinda miss seeing isometric games... some great examples include: Head Over Heels, Batman, Escape From The Planet of the Robot Monsters, Fifa '95... and Viewpoint is still pretty cool imo.

I'm not just saying this because you gave Viewpoint some love: good call on EFPRM. That's definitely a game that could quarter-suck with the best of them, but for good reason. *Tons* of character and gameplay in that one. I'd forgotten about it...it really was a hard-to-find game in this area when it was new, and never got ported anywhere.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Wikipedia lists a number of home computer ports of Escape from the Planet of the Robot Monsters, for: Amiga, Amstrad CPC, Atari ST, Commodore 64, MS-DOS, SAM Coupé and ZX Spectrum.

[boagman]

Wikipedia lists a number of home computer ports of Escape from the Planet of the Robot Monsters, for: Amiga, Amstrad CPC, Atari ST, Commodore 64, MS-DOS, SAM Coupé and ZX Spectrum.

I stand corrected (and thank you for it), but only because I wasn't fully explicit in my statement. What I *meant* was that it was never ported to any major stand-alone video game console by one of the major manufacturers. Those that you mentioned I wasn't really "counting", so to speak. That's my error, though. Thanks for clarifying.

[Tarma]

Batman

The PC Engine one?

Escape from the planet of blahblah is an interesting game - I looked it up in MAME some time ago. Very colorful, that's my major memory of it.

No the Jon Ritman programmed one from 1985/86... I think it only ever appeared on Eurocentric 8-Bit computers like the ZX Spectrum, Amstrad CPC etc. I'm sure there is a C64 version, but whether it was published outside of the UK, I don't know.

The same guy went to program Head Over Heels which I think is much better known internationally.


Re. EFTPOTRM - did this not appear on one of those Midway style compilations for Xbox / PS2 about 10 years ago??

Also... I can't believe that Ultimate: Play the Game (aka Rare) haven't been mentioned - they released some awesome isometric games in the early - mid '80's.

I think isometric view is great, but I think it really only works with 2D games... 3D games shouldn't really need to use an isometric viewpoint!

[Obiwanshinobi]

I think isometric view is great, but I think it really only works with 2D games... 3D games shouldn't really need to use an isometric viewpoint!

Play Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance co-op with someone you fancy.