Shmup Art

This is the main shmups forum. Chat about shmups in here - keep it on-topic please!
y3mbailey
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2013 6:30 pm

Re: Shmup Art

Post by y3mbailey »

Purplebullets

It is 6 main layers for each colour but then about 8 more small little stencils to do a few overlaps and overlays that would not have worked otherwise... the biggest issue tbh was lining up each individual stencil.

Many thanks for the kind words :)

I have sent you a PM you can choose a bullet pattern to work on for my next one :) I am on half term this week (teacher) so wanted to spend a day or 2 working one one while I sit and watch the last series of breaking bad :p
User avatar
PurpBullets
Posts: 115
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2010 12:41 am
Location: Kentucky

Re: Shmup Art

Post by PurpBullets »

y3mbailey wrote:Purplebullets

It is 6 main layers for each colour but then about 8 more small little stencils to do a few overlaps and overlays that would not have worked otherwise... the biggest issue tbh was lining up each individual stencil.

Many thanks for the kind words :)

I have sent you a PM you can choose a bullet pattern to work on for my next one :) I am on half term this week (teacher) so wanted to spend a day or 2 working one one while I sit and watch the last series of breaking bad :p
:o
Amazing.

People, what this guy is doing is not easy.
If anybody wants some art, talk to this guy.
Seriously impressive stuff, and super cheap.
The amount of time and detail that goes into something like this is crazy.
User avatar
604_degrees
Posts: 97
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 7:22 am
Contact:

Re: Shmup Art

Post by 604_degrees »

Cool artwork, man! If you don't mind, here is some of my stuff*...

Image

...which is the shmup-inspired installation Danmappu: hand-crafted animation mapped with a projector onto 24x24 canvas:

https://vimeo.com/72599287
http://opacity.ru/danm-ppu

Image Image Image

* which I didn't hava a chance to share anywere but in shmup-art related post.
y3mbailey
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2013 6:30 pm

Re: Shmup Art

Post by y3mbailey »

604_degrees wrote:Cool artwork, man! If you don't mind, here is some of my stuff*...

Image

...which is the shmup-inspired installation Danmappu: hand-crafted animation mapped with a projector onto 24x24 canvas:

https://vimeo.com/72599287
http://opacity.ru/danm-ppu

Image Image Image

* which I didn't hava a chance to share anywere but in shmup-art related post.
This is really cool I think my fave part about it is i didnt notice the faint second square the first time i looked at it but it adds an incredible layer of depth. Great Stuff
User avatar
Softdrink 117
Posts: 562
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2012 4:15 am
Location: Los Angeles
Contact:

Re: Shmup Art

Post by Softdrink 117 »

First of all, this is very, very well done. :D

Stencils of that level of complexity are not easy, and the finished product looks great. I've worked with acrylics quite a bit, and know from experience how irritating getting stencil layers to line up can be.

That said, I agree with the opinion that this is maybe the wrong way to go about it. Personally, I think that what you're doing is fine as a design concept-- translating the patterns literally from the game to the canvas is a very cool idea. I also believe that ZUN would probably be okay with it, given his stated stance on Touhou-related merchandise. But, I think that you should push it farther. There's no need for the player character to be in the image at all. Same for the health bar/timer/etc. I think focusing on just the bullets would make it more abstract and might be more visually interesting.

I do think that it is ethically wrong to sell these without at least checking what the applicable copyright is if you are going to continue doing exact copies of screenshots, however. As I said above, I seriously doubt that ZUN would care in the slightest, but if you are going to keep this up you should make sure you know what you're getting into. I think most of the discussion in this thread arose from the fact that you said you were only "inspired" by the patterns whereas this really is more of an outright copy.

I ran into shmup-related copyright issues myself a month or so ago; I came up with some designs for shirts of characters from Battle Garegga and Armed Police Batrider. I'd very much like to print them, but I don't have rights to the likenesses of the characters. I sent an email through formal channels to the company which likely inherited the rights, requesting permission to print my designs and explicitly stating that I would be doing so as fan work rather than for any profit or mass distribution. They have yet to reply.

For reference, some rough mockups of the designs I came up with can be viewed here:
http://imgur.com/a/AWqnW
1CC List | youtube | twitch
I love Ibara.
User avatar
PurpBullets
Posts: 115
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2010 12:41 am
Location: Kentucky

Re: Shmup Art

Post by PurpBullets »

If this got taken to court it would be laughed the fuck out. They could not get y3mbailey on anything...
It is altered enough to not be criminal in any way. Even if it was, worst case scenario? They try to send a C&D? :lol:

Softdrink117, you are worried about nothing in your case. Although, your art profession is serious business, (so you taking those measures is wise) but you already answered your own question.
Non-profit, as simple as that. +raizing is no more, print yourself some shirts.


A little while back I saw someone selling a canvas print of a gradius stage background on ebay.
That was blatant, and unchanged, I am positive nobody got permission to do that, and nobody cared.
It sold for quite alot of money too...

EDIT: Actually, looking at your photos softdrink... Yours is altered as well.
You could totally use that.
y3mbailey
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2013 6:30 pm

Re: Shmup Art

Post by y3mbailey »

Right time to do an 'inspired by' one then :p
User avatar
Softdrink 117
Posts: 562
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2012 4:15 am
Location: Los Angeles
Contact:

Re: Shmup Art

Post by Softdrink 117 »

PurpBullets wrote:If this got taken to court it would be laughed the fuck out. They could not get y3mbailey on anything...
It is altered enough to not be criminal in any way. Even if it was, worst case scenario? They try to send a C&D? :lol:
Lol, true enough. But it never hurts to be careful.
PurpBullets wrote:Softdrink117, you are worried about nothing in your case. Although, your art profession is serious business, (so you taking those measures is wise) but you already answered your own question.
Non-profit, as simple as that. +raizing is no more, print yourself some shirts.
Raizing is no more, but they were absorbed into Eighting, which still very much exists. I seriously doubt they would care in the slightest, but it is reasonable to assume that they may have inherited the copyright. Plus, technically speaking even non-profit work is violation. Fanart of any kind is a legal gray area, yet nobody takes action because it has proliferated to such an extent that it would be totally unreasonable to do so.
PurpBullets wrote:EDIT: Actually, looking at your photos softdrink... Yours is altered as well.
You could totally use that.
They're not really that different. I literally created the vectors by overlaying a pixel grid on screenshots from the games. Are they pixel-accurate to the originals? Not at all, that would look lame (believe me, I tried). But since it originated as essentially a trace, legal precedent suggests that it would be interpreted as an infringement on the original copyright. I do, however, plan to get them printed, at least for personal use so that I can include them in my portfolio. And wear them. When I do, I'll raise the issue with my design professors, and ask what they think. I know that there is some interest in the community in these designs, and I'd love to make them available if I can do so-- even if no money comes to my pocket for it.

However, we've gotten quite a ways off topic. :wink:

y3mbailey, I'm excited to see what you come up with for the next one.
1CC List | youtube | twitch
I love Ibara.
User avatar
PurpBullets
Posts: 115
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2010 12:41 am
Location: Kentucky

Re: Shmup Art

Post by PurpBullets »

You know, I was thinking the very same thing. Its a grey area for sure.
Reminds me of music sampling. How music sampling goes, as long as a sample is not longer than 5 seconds? IIRC it is usable fairly according to the law.

I have not read into the laws about this that much.
but from what I can recall from watching Judge Joe Brown, it can be as simple as a color being changed for it to be "legal".
Also percentages.


Although... If I made a game and somebody made a stencil of a pattern I worked on, it would make me really proud.
Flattered...
I would not even consider trying to sue someone over that. Its not like "if only I had made a stencil, my company could have made millions." :lol:

I dont even see how someone could try to say, THAT IS HOW I ARRANGED THOSE CIRCLES, YOUPAYNOWWW
because the pattern is only a percentage of the game...

Super grey area.

Nice designs btw softdrink. That blunt! :wink:


I wish everybody understood how much goes into making a stencil like what y3mbailey did.
Im still impressed.
User avatar
BareKnuckleRoo
Posts: 6693
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 4:01 am
Location: Southern Ontario

Re: Shmup Art

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

Softdrink 117 wrote:I think most of the discussion in this thread arose from the fact that you said you were only "inspired" by the patterns whereas this really is more of an outright copy.
This is exactly the issue. I thought when he said stencil, he meant he made a stencil for each bullet type and laid them out individually to resemble that pattern. There's a difference between manually laying the picture out to closely resemble a danmaku pattern and simply copying it from a screenshot you found in a Google search. That's not 'inspired by' Zun, that's just a trace job with paint. Sure, it looks pretty, but that's mostly thanks to ZUN to begin with. Don't get me wrong, I don't necessarily think stuff like this where ZUN's characters sell merch without him likely seeing a cent is much better, but at least they do more interesting/original stuff with the designs in the fanworks.
I have taken a screen and copied it into a different medium.... that is kind of the point
Yeah, without properly attributing the original source, i.e. the screenshot you literally copied piece for piece. Basically, all you're doing is taking a picture and painting it in another medium without actually crediting the original picture. If you had actually cared about crediting the original 'inspiration' you would've posted at least posted the screenshot you used .

I'm more than cynical enough to believe you're making excuses for your 'inspired by' remark because you didn't expect to get caught. You can claim to be an artist all you want, but if you don't respect the artist whom your work is clearly a derivative of, you're just a dumbfuck.
Last edited by BareKnuckleRoo on Tue Oct 29, 2013 3:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
chum
Posts: 1042
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 8:08 pm

Re: Shmup Art

Post by chum »

Personally I'm only bothered by the inclusion of the FPS counter, the timer, and the (blurred out) spellcard text.
User avatar
PurpBullets
Posts: 115
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2010 12:41 am
Location: Kentucky

Re: Shmup Art

Post by PurpBullets »

Barenuckleroo is a funny bastard. There is no fucking difference in what you just described your expectations were compared to your BRILLIANT realization. :roll:
He did manually layout the picture to resemble the pattern.

& Again, you must not be able to comprehend how stencils are made, even by the great Banksy.

Not to mention your BRILLIANT example of something that does not resemble any frivolous issue you have with what this guy did.

What you posted was a half ass blog, showing someone who vectorized photographs entirely by whoever.
& That had no resolution, that guy was able to legally vectorize those pictures, and nobody could do shit to him.
User avatar
BareKnuckleRoo
Posts: 6693
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 4:01 am
Location: Southern Ontario

Re: Shmup Art

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

Sorry, but I think art is as much about the process of making it as it is the about the end result. It looks too much like it's been simply copied from the screenshot to be brushed off as 'inspired'.
& That had no resolution, that guy was able to legally vectorize those pictures, and nobody could do shit to him.
You must be new to this whole literacy thing. This was posted near the top of the Facebook link on that page - the gallery apparently pulled all of his work pretty much immediately.

http://blogs.miaminewtimes.com/riptide/ ... steali.php

You don't fuck around with not crediting your original sources in the art world unless you want to risk being seen as a plagiarist.

Related:

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/com ... formative/
User avatar
PurpBullets
Posts: 115
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2010 12:41 am
Location: Kentucky

Re: Shmup Art

Post by PurpBullets »

BareknuckleRoo wrote:Sorry, but I think art is as much about the process of making it as it is the about the end result. It looks too much like it's been simply copied from the screenshot to be brushed off as 'inspired'.
You have no insight about art or its complexity.
You have no idea what y3mbailey did in his process of making it.
You dont even know how stencils are made, by real artists.


Well, again, that is a photograph, vectorized in its entirety.
Which has no value in comparison with what you are trying to make a problem out of.
Do you know how many other people get away with it? :lol:

Also, those shirts are expensive.
y3mbailey is not even making profit off of this.
:roll:
:lol:
y3mbailey clearly stated to everyone that it was from "Perfect Cherry Blossom"
User avatar
BareKnuckleRoo
Posts: 6693
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 4:01 am
Location: Southern Ontario

Re: Shmup Art

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

PurpBullets wrote:You have no insight about art or its complexity.

y3mbailey clearly stated to everyone that it was from "Perfect Cherry Blossom"
Image
User avatar
chempop
Posts: 3466
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2005 7:44 am
Location: Western-MA USA

Re: Shmup Art

Post by chempop »

Hey guys I just made a painting of an apple, but I think maybe I should credit the farmer who planted the first apple tree. Anyone know how I can get in contact with him (or her)?
OK TNX

















:roll:
"I've had quite a few pcbs of Fire Shark over time, and none of them cost me over £30 - so it won't break the bank by any standards." ~Malc
User avatar
ZacharyB
Posts: 571
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2006 6:16 am
Location: Queens NY
Contact:

Re: Shmup Art

Post by ZacharyB »

As an artist myself, I can say that the means by which the work was produced were legally sound.

Changing the medium resulted in a remix.

When a remix is involved, the original artist can try to sue, but it won't hold up in a copyright court.

When 5pb stole code from Arika to make the XBox 360 Dai Ou Jou port, that was not legally sound, because the medium used was the same. The two were competing companies.

Established video game developer studios will also occasionally send out Cease and Desist letters to developers of fan games for the same reason... especially right before they plan to release something and that release has been preempted by a fan game's release.
User avatar
rancor
Posts: 2815
Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2010 12:33 pm
Location: Tokyo
Contact:

Re: Shmup Art

Post by rancor »

Image
User avatar
trap15
Posts: 7835
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 4:13 am
Location: 東京都杉並区
Contact:

Re: Shmup Art

Post by trap15 »

chum wrote:Personally I'm only bothered by the inclusion of the FPS counter, the timer, and the (blurred out) spellcard text.
Same.
@trap0xf | daifukkat.su/blog | scores | FIRE LANCER
<S.Yagawa> I like the challenge of "doing the impossible" with older hardware, and pushing it as far as it can go.
User avatar
n0rtygames
Posts: 1001
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:46 pm
Contact:

Re: Shmup Art

Post by n0rtygames »

From Dictionary.com
in·spired

adjective
1.
aroused, animated, or imbued with the spirit to do something, by or as if by supernatural or divine influence: an inspired poet.
2.
resulting from such inspiration: an inspired poem; an inspired plan.
3.
inhaled: inspired air.
This word you are all berating him for using? Does not actually mean what you think it means.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STXq1VAdj8E

http://www.photoshoptutorials.ws/photos ... asy-steps/
facebook: Facebook
User avatar
BareKnuckleRoo
Posts: 6693
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 4:01 am
Location: Southern Ontario

Re: Shmup Art

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

Saying "I took this PCB screenshot and made and turned it into a painting" would've been completely different than what was implied by simply saying something as vague as he was "inspired by" the game in terms of the production process of the piece. If you guys can't understand the difference in intent, I'm at a loss at how to make it any clearer. It's especially unusual that the screenshot wasn't mentioned or posted by the artist when, as Elixir pointed out, it's posted everywhere online (both with and without the score/lives bar on the right). I don't understand why it wasn't mentioned or posted for comparison by the artist himself.

Andy Warhol's art is problematic, too. How many people have seen "Marilyn Diptych" but actually know where it's from or who the photographer that took the iconic image was?
To that end, then, is Warhol's use OK because it's a mass marketed item with a recognizable appearance?

Warhol wasn't exactly running around screaming "it's a Campbell's can!" or "it's Marilyn Monroe".

Should the artist have posted the original photo with attribution?

If you grew up in the back woods somewhere without Campbell's or Marilyn Monroe, and were shown Andy Warhol's work in a book, should it always be paired up with what it was derived from or attributed?

I wish this were a simple question.
Name the photographer that took the Marlyn Monroe photo he's famous for using in his prints. I'm a fine arts major and I didn't even know. Hell even googling it I found it hard to find the name of the photographer who took the original photo. As much as I'm sure photographers would love to say this is different, it's not. Gene Korman the photographer was never paid because of laws protecting contemporary artists. Here's a long boring law article about it skip to section 3.1.2 http://www.law.ed.ac.uk/ahrc/script-ed/ ... torsen.asp
Obviously I'm not saying a screenshot is the same as professional photography, but this is still an issue of properly crediting your sources.
Post Reply