Do people who dislike Mars Matrix also...

[BulletMagnet]

A lot of people here appear to be not-so-secretly involved in some clandestine, cultish effort to summon the invincible Xoxak back from the astral plane to which he journeyed all those years ago: I certainly hope they know exactly what it is they're chanting for, because when he returns his all-consuming judgment shall be swift, terrible, indiscriminate, and Downy soft.

[Ed Oscuro]

Gay pride, man. Anyway I have to admit that I haven't ever really enjoyed Mars Matrix. Giga Wang is just more accessible to me.

brb, catchin cubes

[Herr Schatten]

I used to feel indifferent to Takumi's games. While Giga Wing seemed mildly interesting, Mars Matrix always just looked like a butt-ugly game not really worth sinking time into.

However, after being forced to spend time with either during various STGTs, my opinion of those games changed quite a bit. Turned out I found cube chaining in Mars Matrix compelling and highly satisfactory to pull of, and ended up enjoying Mars Matrix quite a bit, although I still think its prerendered crap graphics are an insult to the eyes. After spending a week of intensive play with Giga Wing, I now find it annoying (COME ON!) and dislike it strongly.

[musicalbacon]

getting tips for giga wing 1 is the reason i signed up for this forum.

[Special World]

Mars Matrix is amazing. Giga Wing 1 and 2 are nowhere near as good. But anybody who doesn't like Mars Matrix is a crazy in my book.

ED: Also, the DC version is massively better than the arcade version, imo.

[Kollision]

Takumi was the only company that could go head to head against Cave. Too bad they folded too soon.

[gs68]

Mars Matrix is very well-done although the cube chaining scares me from playing it as much as I play Giga Wing.

[Special World]

Takumi was the only company that could go head to head against Cave. Too bad they folded too soon.

imo Qute is poised to be the next great scrolling shooter dev

Eschatos and Ginga Force are already some of my favorite shooters ever, with some of the most original design I've seen from any dev, and I can't wait to see what they make next.

[nZero]

Takumi was the only company that could go head to head against Cave. Too bad they folded too soon. :(

imo Qute is poised to be the next great scrolling shooter dev

Eschatos and Ginga Force are already some of my favorite shooters ever, with some of the most original design I've seen from any dev, and I can't wait to see what they make next.

Was Ginger Force actually a sales success? I know Eschatos did quite well, in relation to their expectations, but the release of the double pack so shortly after GF's release worries me a bit.

Also Cardinal Sins was the best part of Eschatos

[MrOldSchoolCool]

Not that it makes a game, but the production values in Eschatos are really lacking.

[Drachenherz]

I really, really want to like MM (I even got the board)...

But I hate it.

Go play Gigawing 2.

[null1024]

Never been much of a Giga Wing fan, but I fucking love Mars Matrix.

[Leandro]

Mars Matrix got me into the genre, I was exclusively 2d fighter player before it

[beatsgo]

I think the reason why people don't like MM (dunno about the GWs) is that delay before the mosquito shield is activated. That frame or two lag can really frustrate people who are use to instant bombs/shield.

[Ed Oscuro]

Instant bombing isn't a problem for me. It's mostly the general awkwardness of the reflect mechanic, for me, which you have to use all the time. It's certainly more involved than the usual "go here to do this" model which is very easy to grasp and use.

[Sinful]

Instant bombing isn't a problem for me. It's mostly the general awkwardness of the reflect mechanic, for me, which you have to use all the time. It's certainly more involved than the usual "go here to do this" model which is very easy to grasp and use.

This is the main reason I'm having a tought time getting into these games. If the bullet reflect thingy was completely optional, then I wouldn't mind.

[Rob]

If the bullet reflect thingy was completely optional,

You can choose to use it or not, so. But why would you not? It's what makes the games unique.

[Special World]

Takumi was the only company that could go head to head against Cave. Too bad they folded too soon.

imo Qute is poised to be the next great scrolling shooter dev

Eschatos and Ginga Force are already some of my favorite shooters ever, with some of the most original design I've seen from any dev, and I can't wait to see what they make next.

Was Ginger Force actually a sales success? I know Eschatos did quite well, in relation to their expectations, but the release of the double pack so shortly after GF's release worries me a bit.

Also Cardinal Sins was the best part of Eschatos

imo cardinal sins was the worst of the three games. Still pretty fun, though. Neither probably sold a ton, but I'd imagine Qute didn't have high expectations.

Not that it makes a game, but the production values in Eschatos are really lacking.

The graphics are pretty basic, but they're used to incredible effect. The dynamic camera adds a ton of energy to the game, and the moment where you blast off into space is incredible. Until that point there's no reason the game needs to be on a next-gen console, but then you see those thousands of stars, and it's really one of the clearest moments of "ah, this is high def" I've ever seen.

Also, production value is more than graphics. The music is stellar and the game has a ton of content, with three games and a ton of unlockable options.

But yeah, the graphics are pretty bare overall. Looks like a pretty basic Dreamcast game for the most part.

[Ed Oscuro]

If the bullet reflect thingy was completely optional,

You can choose to use it or not, so. But why would you not? It's what makes the games unique.

We're all graphics whores and can't be bothered to play games different from Twin Cobra, though.

GOLDEN CUBES EVERYWHERE is probably the best collecting mechanic ever. I just realized that I'm not too big into collecting most of the time.

[autumnmotor]

I remember, developers of Takumi said, "GigaWing is for Beginner. MarsMatrix is for Mania." in interview early Magazine Arcadia.

[jasoncslaughter]

I'm not generally a huge fan of chaining, but I find the "customizable" aspect of the gold chaining a lot of fun.

[Acid King]

I really enjoy both Giga Wing and Mars Matrix. Both games reward aggressive play, Mars Matrix with copious amounts of horizontal movement and Giga Wing's point blank reflecting, and I think that's a stumbling point for a lot of people. You hear "shield" and "reflect" and think "defense" when you should be aggressive and use them as offensive weapons. I'd liken it to learning about point blanking in the Raiden games or Viper Phase 1. The bosses become a lot easier when you learn where the fat bullet sprays are and they go down way quicker than when you're just reacting to them and playing defense. Playing offensively also might help with people who have a problem with the delayed deployment of the shields, since you're not waiting until you're in a shitty spot to use them.

This is the main reason I'm having a tought time getting into these games. If the bullet reflect thingy was completely optional, then I wouldn't mind.

This sounds like an arbitrary thing to get hung up on. It's the main mechanic, the thing the games are designed around. Playing Mars Matrix or the Giga Wings without using the reflect powers would be like playing R Type without using the force pod or the charge shot, or EspGaluda without kakusei. I don't know why you would want to actively ignore the basic powers of your ship.

[Kollision]

I'm not generally a huge fan of chaining, but I find the "customizable" aspect of the gold chaining a lot of fun.

this

you think DDP's chaining is too strict?
go play Mars Matrix
and make your own chaining route for great justice

[professor ganson]

I really, really want to like MM (I even got the board)...

But I hate it.

Go play Gigawing 2.

I think GW 2 was the first bullet hell I ever played. It was so brutal that I had genuine doubts about whether there was any point to my playing modern shmups.

[dark]

Around 2002, I forced my friends to play 4 player Gigawing 2.
It actually did not increase the fun. It was certainly a spectacle, but it was a lot harder to tell what was going on (megabombs going off every other second), and feel like you were using skill to get through the game.

[professor ganson]

4 player Gigawing 2

I hear they're beta-testing on xbox live.

A lot of people here appear to be not-so-secretly involved in some clandestine, cultish effort to summon the invincible Xoxak back from the astral plane to which he journeyed all those years ago: I certainly hope they know exactly what it is they're chanting for, because when he returns his all-consuming judgment shall be swift, terrible, indiscriminate, and Downy soft.

I guess Rob couldn't resist after such an eloquent (re)introduction.

[BulletMagnet]

Rob is merely Xoxak's favored vessel for journeys to our mortal realm. He still awaits his master's call.

[Bee Cool]

I would pay money for someone to make a ROM hack of Mars Matrix where shot power ups are items like typical Cave and Raizing titles instead of them being tied to the score.

[gs68]

I remember someone complaining that Giga Wing is a bad game because shmups are not supposed to be 1CC'd without defense gimmicks. Whoever it is, you should play Sine Mora for score.

[GaijinPunch]

Is it still pretentious to point out the goofiness of the port, even though it fixed some other problems? I know not everyone cares about pixels and whatnot, but it's such a lazy problem.