Solo Shmup League: Rules, Guidelines & Game Choice Thread

[DMC]

It's nice that you pick up this thing, but I think to many people what defines STGT is:
1) multiple gaming weeks with diverse selection of shmups
2) teams

Thus, if you delete any of those two it's not STGT but a different thing imo. of course adding redux denotes that, but maybe just change the name altogether?

[PAPER/ARTILLERY]

Hey Heisenberg, nice one for picking this up. I'm just happy to be able to participate in my first tournament as a member of this forum, crack on mate.

[heisenbergman]

It's nice that you pick up this thing, but I think to many people what defines STGT is:
1) multiple gaming weeks with diverse selection of shmups
2) teams

Thus, if you delete any of those two it's not STGT but a different thing imo. of course adding redux denotes that, but maybe just change the name altogether?

Yeah, sure. I don't mind the name, really. Not sure of trap15 or dex mind that I use the term "STGT". I don't mind changing it. I just can't think of anything right now

[DMC]

Once the format is set is easier to give it a name.

As the STGT is extremely intense tournament, 1-2 months with 5-6 gaming weeks, an idea is to make this thing a a less compact, intense format. Like maybe one week a month for a number of months? Then this could be called Shooting League (STL) or something and STGT can remain STGT. just a thought. It depends on where you wanna go with this thing.

[ACSeraph]

Why you people no voting for Sengoku!? Dafuq is wrong with you!?

[heisenbergman]

Gotta admit, Sengoku Blade seems mighty fun.

[Erppo]

Posting once more about the teams. The team thing is exactly what made me enjoy STGT so much and I probably wouldn't put nearly as much effort into any solo tournament.

Not to say that I'm not interested in any other possible tournaments, I'll likely still take part unless the time is really bad for me.

Like maybe one week a month for a number of months? Then this could be called Shooting League (STL) or something and STGT can remain STGT.

I kind of like this idea.

[Eno]

Voted GB2 because I really need a reason to get back into it and Giga Wing because I always wanted to play it seriously anyway.

Like maybe one week a month for a number of months? Then this could be called Shooting League (STL) or something and STGT can remain STGT.

I kind of like this idea.

Not sure I got how that would work, but seems it would make things more manageable; as this STGT is going to be midterm, whereas it usually takes place in the first month of classes here.

[dunpeal2064]

Not that it is needed, but I would also be much more inclined to participate to the full extent of the jam if teams were included. Solo competition is what a lot of us do outside of any organized event, so having a solo tournament is basically just calling folks to focus on a game and play it like we would any day of the week. Having a team changes things up completely (for me), and makes me much more likely to play something out of my comfort zone.

That said, I will still likely participate, assuming Batsugun doesn't win.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

No teams? No point in playing.

If I wanted to score attack solo, I'd post to the hiscore thread for the games (like we already do). Team play makes it way more motivational to invest time in a game you might not otherwise be terribly interested in playing alone, and adds a social element that really made STGT what it was.

[Zerst]

Additionally, the team format encouraged more people to play sign up, because they could miss a week and not be out of the tournament. Really I don't get the whole point of changing much about the tournament, it worked very well for what it was, verification argument aside. Also I would strongly advise against putting game choice in the hands of individual participants, even if it *is* going to end in a popular vote, unless you want week 3 voting to look like "Dangan Feveron/ESPgaluda/Donpachi/Dangan Feveron (Time Attack)/Dangan Feveron" and week 4 voting to look like "Touhou 7/Touhou 8/Touhou 9/Touhou 12/Ketsui"

Also what the heck is the implication with that scoring formula...You want to base peoples' standings on how they've done in completely different tournaments? That seems unnecessary.

Also also I hate voting in general for this because lobbying drama sucks and we end up only playing games everyone has heard of. I would never have found P-47 Aces if it weren't for Dex, and now we're just going to play Dodonpachi and Gunbird 2, get the scores all of us have already gotten within a credit or two, instead of more people having an excuse to try out Soukyugurentai?

[Icarus]

It's nice that you pick up this thing, but I think to many people what defines STGT is:
1) multiple gaming weeks with diverse selection of shmups
2) teams
Thus, if you delete any of those two it's not STGT but a different thing imo. of course adding redux denotes that, but maybe just change the name altogether?

This.

No teams? No point in playing.
If I wanted to score attack solo, I'd post to the hiscore thread for the games (like we already do). Team play makes it way more motivational to invest time in a game you might not otherwise be terribly interested in playing alone, and adds a social element that really made STGT what it was.

This.

Also I would strongly advise against putting game choice in the hands of individual participants, even if it *is* going to end in a popular vote...

And this.

It's nice you're proposing a tournament, but changing the format from what STGT has been and always was, since the first one many years ago, does not make it "STGT".
And out of the games listed, at least two already been in an STGT, one has been played to death by a huge majority of the forum (therefore skewing results towards those who have invested a large amount of time in the game), one or two have quirky and broken scoring systems, and the rest have no scoring systems at all. And one has system-intensive emulation that requires a decent computer.

[Zerst]

And one has system-intensive emulation that requires a decent computer.

Souky has problems? RSG is the only ST-V game I remember ever running like shit.

[Icarus]

And one has system-intensive emulation that requires a decent computer.

Souky has problems? RSG is the only ST-V game I remember ever running like shit.

ShmupMAME 4.2 has missing graphics for Soukyugurentai, at critical parts in a number of stages, and even on my i7 takes a lot of system resources (though that might be because of ShmupMAME itself).
ST-V in general was ruled out when I was helping the guys organise STGT 2011, for that reason. Otherwise we could have shortlisted Soukyugurentai, RSG and Cotton Boomerang.

[heisenbergman]

Name change in thread title to emphasize that, yes, this is indeed not "STGT" as most people have come to know it So as DMC pointed out, it has to be called something else, and I agree, since calling it STGT may mislead people.

Yeah, this is a solo league. It works more or less how the high score threads work except that there is a point system put in place and scores from each week will carry over to the succeeding weeks to factor into the overall rankings.

If that's your thing, then great! If not having teams is a dealbreaker, I'm sure a new STGT will come along in a few months Cheers.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

That's not to say that a solo tourney is bad, it's just that the team thing was what really set STGT apart.

Also what the heck is the implication with that scoring formula...You want to base peoples' standings on how they've done in completely different tournaments? That seems unnecessary.

This seems quite odd - I've never heard of a tournament where your score is partially based on how you did at a previous, unrelated tournament.

[heisenbergman]

"You want to base peoples' standings on how they've done in completely different tournaments?" --- can't see where I said this, tbh.

[Zerst]

"You want to base peoples' standings on how they've done in completely different tournaments?" --- can't see where I said this, tbh.

It's your wording in point 4 under scoring. You said "previous STGTs", which implies bringing in rankings from dex's tournaments as weight; I assume you meant "previous weeks".

[Icarus]

"You want to base peoples' standings on how they've done in completely different tournaments?" --- can't see where I said this, tbh.

It's your wording in point 4 under scoring. You said "previous STGTs", which implies bringing in rankings from dex's tournaments as weight; I assume you meant "previous weeks".

Seeding could be interesting if implemented correctly, mind.

[heisenbergman]

"You want to base peoples' standings on how they've done in completely different tournaments?" --- can't see where I said this, tbh.

It's your wording in point 4 under scoring. You said "previous STGTs", which implies bringing in rankings from dex's tournaments as weight; I assume you meant "previous weeks".

Ah, yeah I meant previous weeks of this league. The other previous STGTs ran by dex or trap15 have no bearing on this, neither with regards to seeding nor with anything relating to how the scores are computed.

[heisenbergman]

Will let the poll run for around a day more and then will seriously consider starting this.

[chum]

Personally, I cannot feel hype towards this if there are no teams... I was really looking forward to STGT this year since I had a lot of time and motivation around the time when I thought it was gonna pop up, but it never did. I mean no disrespected but I was hoping this would actually reinvigorate STGT, complete with teams, and now I am once again disappointed :<

[heisenbergman]

Sorry you feel that way chum. I feel like I don't want to take the STGT format since trap15 at least has said that he plans on continuing it a few months from now. Thus, this will be a different thing altogether.

Also, it looks like the first two weeks will feature DoDonPachi and Gunbird 2. After that, if this thing catches on, I'd still want to see what comes of having the winner of Week 1 nominating games to play for Week 3.

Hoping to stick with arcade games, btw.

I know people have reservations about it, but if it works, then great. If not, life goes on No harm in trying to see what happens imo.

[ACSeraph]

Yeah I think its better that we just look at this for what it is and consider it something totally different from STGT. I'm sure one of our more experienced members here will get it rolling in due time.

Someone mentioned earlier in this thread about just making this a monthly (1 game, 1 week a month I'm guessing?) thing and I think that could be a good idea to give us an excuse to focus on specific games together.

I was thinking if we did it that way you could award points based on number of participants for a given game and have a winner each week, and then also keep up a running scoreboard of each participants combined overall scores just to see who has been performing the best overall through the life of the shooting league.

Also you seem interested in having the winners choose future games, and I'm a bit interested in that myself but I doubt everyone agree. How about this compromise: The top 3 for a given week/month/however we do this can nominate 2 or 3 games each, and then everyone can vote from their nominations what the next game will be.

[heisenbergman]

Also you seem interested in having the winners choose future games, and I'm a bit interested in that myself but I doubt everyone agree. How about this compromise: The top 3 for a given week/month/however we do this can nominate 2 or 3 games each, and then everyone can vote from their nominations what the next game will be.

Yes, that is certainly something that can be done.

[heisenbergman]

Updated this for further thoughts and comments, thanks.

Rules & Guidelines:

1. This is a purely individual competition. No teams or anything.
2. This will be a bi-monthly event (twice a month). One week of competition then one week off alternately.
3. No registration needed. If you want to join for that week, just submit a score.
4. To ensure the validity of a score, a screenshot will at least be required when you post your score on the thread.
5. General format of score submission:

   Code: Select all

   |SSL|<score>|<link to screenshot of score>

   • • • no need to include player name. user account used to post the score will be used as the player name by default
       • other information (e.g. - ship, stage, etc) will be included depending on what is applicable for the game that week
       • I plan to write a program that will automatically gather the scores from the game thread so the format for submission of scores will be strictly required

On Game Choice:

1. To start things off, vote in the poll above. The two games with the most votes will be the games that will be played for Weeks 1 and 2.
2. The Top 3 players of Week 1 will PM to me 2-3 games each. Those will be the poll choices for the Week 2 thread. The game with the most votes from that poll will be the game for Week 3.
3. The Top 3 players of Week 2 will then PM to me 2-3 games each to be voted on to be played for Week 4, so on and so forth.
4. If any of the Top 3 for that week have already taken a turn nominating games, the next highest placers for that week who haven't had a turn yet will be the ones to pick games instead.
5. You may nominate any arcade STG that hasn't been played for SSL yet.

On Scoring:

1. This might be a controversial subject, so I'm going to compute the points two ways to eventually see what works best.
2. The maximum points that could be had per week is 100pts, which will be given to the player with the highest score for the game that week.
3. METHOD #1: Points of players will be computed as a percentage of the winner's score
4. METHOD #2: Points of players will be assigned based on the number of total players
5. METHOD #3: An average of the two methods above
6. So, for example:
   
   R=Player & Score & Method #1 & Method #2 & Method #3 R=chum & 7993530 & 100.00 & 100.00 & 100.00 R=Zerst & 7373300 & 92.24 & 92.82 & 92.53 R=jepjepjep & 5883120 & 73.60 & 85.68 & 79.64 R=clp & 5872040 & 73.46 & 78.54 & 76.00 R=Erppo & 5362480 & 67.09 & 71.40 & 69.25 R=Nifty & 4932760 & 61.71 & 64.26 & 62.99 R=ciox & 4623620 & 57.84 & 57.12 & 57.48 R=TrippyCake & 4362410 & 54.57 & 49.98 & 52.28 R=shadowbringer & 3740900 & 46.80 & 42.84 & 44.82 R=chummademeregister & 3704530 & 46.34 & 35.70 & 41.02 R=Deca & 3696840 & 46.25 & 28.56 & 37.41 R=KevinDDR & 3622170 & 45.31 & 21.42 & 33.37 R=DocHauser & 3588030 & 44.89 & 14.28 & 29.59 R=trap15 & 3493280 & 43.70 & 7.14 & 25.42
7. Each participants' points will be accumulated and averaged from week to week to determine overall ranking.
8. Overall ranking will be computed using the following formula:

• • 

• • W = player's overall score for ranking
  • R = player's average score across all weeks/games they've participated in
  • v = number of weeks/games the player has participated in
  • m = minimum weeks/games required to be ranked (we can set this to 1 for the meantime)
  • C = the mean average score across all league participants

[PAPER/ARTILLERY]

Whichever scoring system you choose I'd advise you to pick it before you start the league and stick with it. If you decide to change things half way through people will almost certainly be miffed. Particularly if it has an effect on the rankings.

[heisenbergman]

^ Indeed.

I added a third method, which is an average of both earlier mentioned methods of computation and I thought that seems to make sense since it assigns points as a measure of (1) one's raw score; and, (2) one's placement among all participants. I'm most partial to that right now, fwiw.

[ACSeraph]

Looks solid. On overall scoring though, I think simpler might be better. Why not just use a running tab of every weekly score you've ever earned. It's not as important as the weekly score anyhow, it's just there to see how many points you have collected over the life of the league relative to other players.

Also what are the limitations for games we can nominate? I feel like we ought to at least be able to nominate console games seeing as we are voting. If no one wants to play them or they don't have access to them then that will be reflected in the votes I think. We could always just take a vote to see how many people want console games to be nominate-able versus how many don't? Maybe make a limitation of only 1 console nomination allowed (of your 3 nominations) in order to keep Mame options open. Just throwing out ideas, I hate to see this limited to only Mame.

[Pinehed]

Voted for both Psikyo games.

Overall ranking will be computed using the following formula:

• • 

• • W = player's overall score for ranking
  • R = player's average score across all weeks/games they've participated in
  • v = number of weeks/games the player has participated in
  • m = minimum weeks/games required to be ranked (we can set this to 1 for the meantime)
  • C = the mean average score across all league participants

One concern I have with this is that posting a score could decrease one's average score and overall ranking. Scoring system should encourage participation and posting scores in subsequent weeks, not discourage it.