Seems all old school dev's will all be retired soon. :(

[louisg]

I'm just gonna pop in and say Minish Cap was great, and it was a joint design with Capcom guys IIRC

[Obiwanshinobi]

Capcom also developed the original Four Swords (GBA), Oracle of Seasons/Ages and - last but not least - Ōkami.

[Ed Oscuro]

Excellent points

Unfortunately, Capcom's had quite the slow drip of talent from their company too.

[Drum]

Jesus, what the hell is happening to our forum of respectable seasoned gamers. LTTP "isn't too special"?

Have you guys played it? I get the impression Drum's main beef was visual, which leads me to believe he hasn't.

I've beaten it twice. To this day I couldn't tell you why.

[Drum]

I also don't like Johnny Cash or Bob Dylan.

[Skykid]

Minish Cap and Seasons are ok games. Not up to Nintendo's earlier handheld standard of Link's awakening sadly.

Between Ocarina and Majora, L.Bee is correct, Ocarina is considered to be the people's favourite

This question, what the "fan favorite" is, doesn't matter - and nobody is even really promoting OoT as such here. Bringing in the supposed wisdom of the community confuses (and dumbs down) the topic even more. Ditto for the rather amusing suggestion that we need look no farther than LttP, Castlevania IV, and Super Metroid for the SNES' best games.

Well they're three utterly incredible games. I suppose that would be fair comment. Ocarina, too, is godlike, so not sure why the irritation over Bee's input.

[Ed Oscuro]

so not sure why the irritation over Bee's input.

Just read my comment again: It's not Leader Bee's input, but just "I don't know where I stand so I'm going to try to change course by talking about what other people supposedly like!" What's that supposed to do for anybody?

[Skykid]

Fair enough, I didn't really see it that way.

[Leader Bee]

Just read my comment again: It's not Leader Bee's input, but just "I don't know where I stand so I'm going to try to change course by talking about what other people supposedly like!" What's that supposed to do for anybody?

I know just fine where I stand. I think Lttp is a stellar game and I wanted to put some points across as to why. I disagree with Drums statement that LTTP is "just above average" to paraphrase him and while perhaps unnecessary I felt i'd mention a couple of other games which I feel share the same level of quality. What Drum thinks about this game is his opinion and we all have our own here.

"What other people supposedly like" is entirely down to them but when you see polls about the greatest Zelda ever you will find that oot generally has the top spot in them. Sure, taking this from one or two polls wont give wide enough scope to come to a conclusion that this is the peoples favourite but when you see it mentioned in the top spot in nearly every one then you find it hard to be dissuaded that it is NOT the fan favourite.
As evidenced:

Here: http://www.thetoptens.com/top-legend-zelda-games/
Here: http://www.nintendofuse.com/2012/01/13/ ... me-so-far/
and here: http://www.zeldauniverse.net/forums/gen ... -game.html

I'm sure there are more but Oot and MM top all 3 here so please don't tell me that when the community themselves have given their feedback on what they consider the best zelda that this isn't fan concensus. You are daydreaming Ed.

As for there being only 3 decent games for the SNES, that is just ridiculous nit-picking on your part, there are plenty of other wonderful titles that are on the format but I was not going to list off the ream of classics that are certainly on par quality wise with the three I decided to mention simply to tie up any loose ends you'd like to nit-pick there.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Monster Hunter may not be doing for 3DS what it did for PSP, but the franchise appears to be for Capcom what PES is for Konami - I doubt either company would have much trouble finding right people to work on these.

[Ed Oscuro]

I know just fine where I stand.

Then why don't you tell us?

This has all been an issue because you clearly didn't want to stake any particular weight on your own opinion but you wanted to easily criticize Drum's "BS" for having the courage to go against (wrong) mainstream opinion. Hiding behind "public acclaim" is weak. And no, more links to random websites isn't going to change my belief.

By the way, you might be interested to know that your whole line of attack is based on a misreading of what I wrote. When I said "(the best is) Majora's Mask, clearly," I was speaking for myself, not everybody else. Why would you think for a moment that I was trying to argue about what the masses think? That should be fairly obvious, considering what I've been criticizing...

As for there being only 3 decent games for the SNES

You're really not tracking today. I'm saying there's plenty of better (in some cases, much better) choices for a top three than those three.

[evil_ash_xero]

Mikami retiring makes me sad.

I'm still a fan of Kamiya. He's still about, but his output is slow.

[Ed Oscuro]

I wonder whether Mikami's last project really has the stuff to be considered better than RE4. That's a really high hurdle to pass and just looking at the setting gives me a bit of pause.

I also wonder why he's retiring already - I thought he was pretty young. But hey, maybe it's time to drive race cars or take up the culinary arts for a while.

[Rob]

It's the large expansive world, well designed areas and colourful art direction

For fun- http://www.segabastard.com/rub/oasiszelda.html

[Skykid]

This has all been an issue because you clearly didn't want to stake any particular weight on your own opinion but you wanted to easily criticize Drum's "BS" for having the courage to go against (wrong) mainstream opinion.

This is madness Ed! In the case of LTTP and Ocarina, public opinion is for once completely accurate. Since that's as common an occurence as a hybrid solar eclipse, it's beyond all logic as to why you two rebels are piping up with the combative rhetoric. Not that it matters especially: you're wrong now and will continue to be so after the discussion is over.

Ocarina and LTTP are two masterpieces - an absolute rarity in the entire history of videogamedom - and there's no question about it.

Majora's Mask on the other hand, I agree with you, and our understanding and beliefs about the game certainly aren't public consensus because it's so misunderstood. Their loss imo. It's not the first stroke of genius the world has happily ignored.

[Ed Oscuro]

In the case of LTTP and Ocarina, public opinion is for once completely accurate.

It's completely irrelevant, and also very rude to insist that the opinion of people who aren't a party to this discussion can render Drum's (or anybody else's) opinions "BS."

What would that be called...not an appeal to authority, because what knowledge do these people HAVE? The Sega Bastard article makes it even more grim than I had recalled. I wasn't completely hooked on Beyond Oasis either - both games feel like quite a bit of aimless trudging, but LttP doesn't liven it up nearly as much as Oasis does. Super Metroid's combat isn't entirely captivating either, but it's an improvement in all ways. There are two things I'd credit LttP with - first for having story-setting distinct phases - a necessity when it otherwise sets the scene so poorly; secondly, for keeping that sense from the original Legend of Zelda of finding mysterious hidden things.

[Skykid]

In the case of LTTP and Ocarina, public opinion is for once completely accurate.

It's completely irrelevant, and also very rude to insist that the opinion of people who aren't a party to this discussion can render Drum's (or anybody else's) opinions "BS."

If it makes you feel any better I think Drum's opinion is BS.

Beyond Oasis was a day-one purchase for me as a kid - most anticipated game of the year iirc. It's not even in the same ballpark as LttP. I don't even think they should rightly be muttered in the same breath, letalone compared to each other.

[Ed Oscuro]

Progress, slow but sure. We're still a ways away from being able to have nice things with this level of conversation, though.

[Necronopticous]

My opinion is that A Link to the Past is one step forward and three or four steps backwards from the original. I don't like any of the others enough to even bother discussing them. The original is, like, a perfect video game if there is such a thing.

[BIL]

I dig the very first game more than the third too. It has the simple, authentic thrill of going rambling with the real possibility of getting your shit ruined by a bear or a merman.

[GaijinPunch]

I also don't like Johnny Cash or Bob Dylan.

A....nd scene.

[Ed Oscuro]

[system11]

It's sad to see the industry in such a dire creative situation, but as BulletMagnet says there are enough older games to keep me busy for the rest of my life.

I don't buy this situation, there are still a constant flow of good games coming out. They may not be what you personally want, but they do exist. Stand out titles just from the past year for me would include The Last Of Us, Metro: Last Light, Bioshock Infinite, Remember Me, and that new Tomb Raider was actually excellent taken on its own merits. I think my pick of the year so far would be Remember Me, because it was so different in atmosphere to everything else, although it wasn't without issues.

[Hagane]

I played three out of those and I think they are pseudo movies with little value as games, one of the main problems of today's industry. My statement stands.

[system11]

I played three out of those and I think they are pseudo movies with little value as games, one of the main problems of today's industry. My statement stands.

That's my point, they're not what you want. You're stuck in the past, gaming has changed and old tastes are niche, mostly catered for by small and independant developers. Actually within the last year would also include CoD BO2 since that came out last November, that's absolutely first class gaming. Sure, it's a refinement of a long established gameplay system so the innovation level is low, but so was Mushihimesama Futari, and nearly everyone here loves that. I forgot DOA5/U too, that's as good as DOA has ever been, good enough to earn a port to the arcades.

[Drum]

I submit the inverse: that those are bad games that you personally like.

[Drum]

let's fight

[system11]

I submit the inverse: that those are bad games that you personally like.

If you truly believe the games I just listed are all bad games, I can't see you getting any enjoyment out of the next 10 years. I still approach games how I always have since they were black & white bat & ball TV games. Am I enjoying it? Yes/no. If the answer is yes, the game has achieved what any game should strive to do, entertain, kill some time.

[Ganelon]

I've never been enamored with Zelda or Metroid for some reason. Consequently, I don't think any Zelda game is in the ballpark of Beyond Oasis. Beyond Oasis excels in visuals, music, controls, secrets, and overall fantasy atmosphere.

As for modern games, ignoring troll posts, I'd say it's normal to not enjoy them. As with anime since the late 90s, most games of this millennium don't click for me. Even niche titles like Demon's Souls and 2D games like Disgaea D2 don't seem interesting nowadays. There's nothing in the PS4's launch window that excites me currently.

However, referring to modern critical and commercial hits as "bad games" makes us sound more like curmudgeons than connoisseurs. I have a vision of a more immersive game for the future that I'll enjoy, but it may be some time off before such a game can be realized. For now, rather than looking down on modern games, I just accept that my tastes are quite different from those of the modern gaming community.

[system11]

Give that man a cigar, or a cookie, whatever.

I don't think it's a bad thing that the old guys are moving on, quite often we just see aped re-hashes of past success, usually not as good at that. This thread reminds me that it's time to pick up Remember Me again, I sold it after finishing it while the residual value was still high, but I imagine it can be had quite cheap now - I'd like to replay it. GTA5 on the other hand, I can't see myself ever touching that again, I really need to ebay that tonight, complete with unused DLC code.