Mushi Futari BL Japanese vs International "Another Ver"

[jepjepjep]

The real question is this: if you get a Shit Label Shitty Ver. PCB is a conversion possible to the proper Japanese Black Label?

It seems possible, going by some of the posts in this thread: http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=50042 . Actually if someone were to figure it out, it looks like it would be possible to convert any futari pcb version to any other (1.0, 1.5, BL, BLA) since the sound roms are the same.

[CStarFlare]

Someone remind me - doesn't BL have a code that allows you to fight Spiritual Larsa regardless of deaths? I seem to remember something like that from the cave-stg days.

[trap15]

It'd probably only need a program data replacement, which would be very quick and easy. If someone wants to loan me one for science, I could take a look at it (and if you'd like, keep it converted when I send it back).

Science!

[BareKnuckleRoo]

I bought a Futari BL PCB from a buyer who is turning out to be very sketchy (said would ship within 3 days of payment, been over a week and hasn't sent any tracking info, expected delivery date is listed as sometime between April 4 - April 24!) so if it turns out that the board he sends isn't an actual BL but this Another Ver. crap I would be totally grateful for a conversion (assuming it ever arrives...).

Edit: nope, buyer's cool. He wasn't aware the batch he was selling was the Another Ver release and not the Japanese one. Very apologetic, offered a full refund if I wasn't happy, etc, got me tracking info (I was stupid and forgot it was Chinese New Year, hence holiday delays).

[system11]

Another Ver is a version of Futari BL.

[system11]

It'd probably only need a program data replacement, which would be very quick and easy. If someone wants to loan me one for science, I could take a look at it (and if you'd like, keep it converted when I send it back).

Science!

Honestly, I think that's one genie that probably needs to stay in the bottle. It will be carnage if converted SH3 become a common thing, there are too many people who will just start harvesting any game they can get for less than $x to create game worth $y.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Another Ver is a version of Futari BL.

I don't know what this comment was supposed to be directed at, but it's a "version" of Futari BL in the sense that the Hong Kong Donpachi is a "version" of Donpachi or that the US Metamorphic Force is a "version" of the original Japanese one. The word "version" here is essentially synonymous with unnecessarily changed for the worse. It also makes it more complicated for scoring competitions if you suddenly realize there's multiple versions floating around of the same game with various difficulty tweaks. Another Ver. isn't even an update in the sense like Futari 1.0 to 1.5 was, it's just got already low health bosses made even weaker with slight pattern tweaks, and isn't the copy that's considered to be the 'official' one (i.e. the one that is on both the Xbox 360 and iOS ports).

CV1000 conversions were already being done constantly by Cave themselves, and updating Another Ver. to JP BL is basically a fix or upgrade similar to how you could send in a Futari 1.0 to get updated to Futari 1.5. I don't think you're suddenly going to see a rush of people looking to convert boards just for a cash grab (and the ones who would probably have been doing so already). :/

[nesrulz]

I like Another Ver.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

I like Another Ver.

That's nice.

Okay, so I have a BLAV input replay in God Mode up to stage 3 that is currently synched perfectly when replayed in BLJP. This lines up with my initial couple of runs; I haven't been able to notice any differences. I suspect that Original and Maniac are the only two 'obviously' affected modes, whereas God Mode was untouched in the creation of Another Ver.

BLAV God Mode may still have had something like its Spiritual Larsa requirements changed (such as only requiring a 1CC as opposed to a No Miss run), but I'm nowhere near good enough to test for such a thing currently, and I don't know how to cheat and enable invulnerability in MAME which could potentially check for such a thing.

[pestro87]

I like Another Ver.

That's nice.

Okay, so I have a BLAV input replay in God Mode up to stage 3 that is currently synched perfectly when replayed in BLJP. This lines up with my initial couple of runs; I haven't been able to notice any differences. I suspect that Original and Maniac are the only two 'obviously' affected modes, whereas God Mode was untouched in the creation of Another Ver.

BLAV God Mode may still have had something like its Spiritual Larsa requirements changed (such as only requiring a 1CC as opposed to a No Miss run), but I'm nowhere near good enough to test for such a thing currently, and I don't know how to cheat and enable invulnerability in MAME which could potentially check for such a thing.

Many thanks for verifying this, Roo!

[BareKnuckleRoo]

I was bored and it was annoying me to wonder what exactly had changed. Granted, it's not much - unless you've played one of the modes extensively or you know what to look for, Original and Maniac will feel the same. It's really only the bosses that have had minor tweaks as far as I can tell.

I'm just really annoyed by region-specific difficulty tweaking, as if you need to dumb down a mode or make a mode super hard just for one country. Grr.

I suppose it's nowhere near as bad as something like Xexex that had an entire weapon system stripped out. How did this become a thing? So freaking stupid.

[xMetalliCx]

Honestly, I think that's one genie that probably needs to stay in the bottle. It will be carnage if converted SH3 become a common thing, there are too many people who will just start harvesting any game they can get for less than $x to create game worth $y.

honestly, I think this already happening, for quite long time.

[system11]

I'm just really annoyed by region-specific difficulty tweaking, as if you need to dumb down a mode or make a mode super hard just for one country. Grr.

Game changes happen because local markets did/do have different tastes or different levels of what they'd accept from a game - for example the US suffered several 'quarter munching' adjustments to games, while asia is known to prefer easier games. There are examples where the default settings vary by region according to the manuals, typically though in most cases Japanese games are harder. There are 6 different versions of Ghosts n Goblins alone with various tweaks in different regions.

It's all about money, and trying to get more of it.

[system11]

Looking forward to getting the PCB. I'm curious if they changed anything else, especially on God Mode. I wouldn't mind if they made the TLB requirements a bit more lenient tbh or perhaps slightly nerfed a few of Larsa's patterns so that it's not mandatory to drop at least like 3 bombs on Larsa...

I just tested Original and God modes.

Original - similar to Maniac, core difference is lower bullet density at the boss, immediate de-sync.

God - played back identically with the same score in BL and BL/AV, frame for frame.

Now it's worth noting that I only tested stage 1, there may be any number of changes, balance changes or bug fixes further in, in any of the modes.

[Dave_K.]

Honestly, I think that's one genie that probably needs to stay in the bottle. It will be carnage if converted SH3 become a common thing, there are too many people who will just start harvesting any game they can get for less than $x to create game worth $y.

honestly, I think this already happening, for quite long time.

Isn't there a way to determine the difference between an original BL and a converted Futari? Original BL should have "MFBL" in the serial right?

[system11]

Honestly, I think that's one genie that probably needs to stay in the bottle. It will be carnage if converted SH3 become a common thing, there are too many people who will just start harvesting any game they can get for less than $x to create game worth $y.

honestly, I think this already happening, for quite long time.

Isn't there a way to determine the difference between an original BL and a converted Futari? Original BL should have "MFBL" in the serial right?

Just CA-xxxxx on those.

[pestro87]

Isn't there a way to determine the difference between an original BL and a converted Futari? Original BL should have "MFBL" in the serial right?

Just CA-xxxxx on those.

I'm not an expert at these things but I think MMB-xxxxx as well, like the one that Tops currently has for sale (I assume that these were originally Medal Mahjong Moukari Banchou PCBs) :

http://ec.tops-game.jp/products/detail. ... ct_id=2473

[xMetalliCx]

I'm not an expert at these things but I think MMB-xxxxx as well, like the one that Tops currently has for sale (I assume that these were originally Medal Mahjong Moukari Banchou PCBs) :
http://ec.tops-game.jp/products/detail. ... ct_id=2473

it can't be Medal Mahjong PCB, there no DB9 serial connector for touch screen PCB.

MMB-xxx looks strange indeed, must be CA-015B, but its common case - Cave itself did a lot of conversions, repairs/reconditions/etc. no single partially broken piece of shit was trown away to trash, it was somewhat restored and sold as "new game PCBs" to Cave/shmups (stupid) fanboys lol.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

I went through God Mode. Couldn't see any obvious/major changes. It's still hard as hell.



Spiritual Larsa still requires a No-Miss in Another Version. Not sure if there's other ways to trigger her such as not bombing (too hard for me to manage, even with savestates, how the hell do you reliably pass the stage 2 misbosses sphere's without bombing?).

[pestro87]

I went through God Mode. Couldn't see any obvious/major changes. It's still hard as hell.



Spiritual Larsa still requires a No-Miss in Another Version. Not sure if there's other ways to trigger her such as not bombing (too hard for me to manage, even with savestates, how the hell do you reliably pass the stage 2 misbosses sphere's without bombing?).

Many thanks for investigating the TLB requirements on Another Ver, Roo! To answer your question about how to NB the Stage 2 mid-boss, I just recorded a run where I NB that part in case you're interested. It's a lot easier to show it rather than explaining it in words (feel free to skip Stage 1 and the first half of Stage 2 - I couldn't be bothered to edit the video - the gameplay is not my greatest but it's passable I guess). Basically, just stay aggressive so that you don't have to deal with it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbQt_wysikI

OT: I seriously need to look into how to capture off of JAMMA...

EDIT: Normally I drop 2 bombs on that boss so that you can build up a 30k counter from the point blanking by sitting on top of him during the invincibility period. By speedkilling him, three additional lobsters appear and another manta ray meaning lots of things to cash in on by all the bullet cancelling! As mentioned previously, the video is just to demonstrate how to NB him.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

OT: I seriously need to look into how to capture off of JAMMA...

Ask colour_thief. He had it setup at one point for capturing his puzzle games I think, he could probably show you how he's got it rigged the next time he has a meet in Waterloo.

[pestro87]

OT: I seriously need to look into how to capture off of JAMMA...

Ask colour_thief. He had it setup at one point for capturing his puzzle games I think, he could probably show you how he's got it rigged the next time he has a meet in Waterloo.

Oh really? Will do! Thanks

[BareKnuckleRoo]

I just noticed why I was having so much trouble - Reco is strong enough at that point that she can kill the st.2 midboss before the spheres arrive, whereas the slightly weaker Palm kills the tortoise when you're just after the center of the first set of spheres. Hm.

[Skykid]

Honestly, I think that's one genie that probably needs to stay in the bottle. It will be carnage if converted SH3 become a common thing, there are too many people who will just start harvesting any game they can get for less than $x to create game worth $y.

honestly, I think this already happening, for quite long time.

Isn't there a way to determine the difference between an original BL and a converted Futari? Original BL should have "MFBL" in the serial right?

Wait, people are converting 1.5s into BLs?

That really is a crime, and I don't mean in the profiteering sense.

[system11]

Wait, people are converting 1.5s into BLs?

That really is a crime, and I don't mean in the profiteering sense.

I've never heard of a confirmed case so far.

[pestro87]

Isn't there a way to determine the difference between an original BL and a converted Futari? Original BL should have "MFBL" in the serial right?

Just CA-xxxxx on those.

I'm not an expert at these things but I think MMB-xxxxx as well, like the one that Tops currently has for sale (I assume that these were originally Medal Mahjong Moukari Banchou PCBs) :

http://ec.tops-game.jp/products/detail. ... ct_id=2473

Apologies for going back to this as it is slightly OT but I failed to mention that another indicator that a board might have been converted (by Cave I presume) is if you look at the inspection mark ( 検査印 ) on the back of the PCB. The MMB-xxxxx BL on Tops has two stamps with dates on them, indicating that it was probably converted on the date in the right column whereas the MFBLA-xxxxx boards that showed up on ebay only have one stamp in the left column, indicating that they are original boards.

[xMetalliCx]

Wait, people are converting 1.5s into BLs?

That really is a crime, and I don't mean in the profiteering sense.

converting 9 year old game PCB to 6 year old is a crime ? you make me LOL.
original IP owners don't care about such old games, they are both outdated enough to become non-profitable property.
only collectors cares, because it can make their "investments" costs (much) less.

[brentsg]

Wait, people are converting 1.5s into BLs?

That really is a crime, and I don't mean in the profiteering sense.

converting 9 year old game PCB to 6 year old is a crime ? you make me LOL.
original IP owners don't care about such old games, they are both outdated enough to become non-profitable property.
only collectors cares, because it can make their "investments" costs (much) less.

He didn't mean it was a crime in the literal sense, more of a crime against humanity.

You can't blame people for not wanting a market full of converted and/or bootleg products. It's bad for the market, whether you're a collector or not.

And to your comment about it being 9 years old, it wasn't long ago that Cave was releasing these on Xbox. It's still viable IP.

[system11]

original IP owners don't care about such old games

Tell that to Cave who harassed trap15 over his Ketsui Arrange ROM, so he had to release it as a patcher instead of a usable image.

[Skykid]

Wait, people are converting 1.5s into BLs?

That really is a crime, and I don't mean in the profiteering sense.

converting 9 year old game PCB to 6 year old is a crime ? you make me LOL.

Thanks for not being able to read.

Generally speaking I disagree with conversions of games because you're destroying original artifacts, but the idea of converting 1.5s to BLs is even more heinous since you'd be destroying an incredible game to make a lesser one.