Has everybody fallen out of love with Gradius V?

[null1024]

Gradius V is supposed to be epic, that's why!

extending beyond the usual or ordinary especially in size or scope
For once, that word has been used right.

All this talk of Gradius V, I should fire it up right now.

[Drachenherz]

Fuck you all... Really, fuck you...

This thread just made me spend 35 EUR for a japanese Gradius V from amazon.de...

I'm astonished that they deliver to switzerland... Electronics and games, they're usually excluded from shipment to switzerland.

[Spyke]

Love the game.

Just hate my crapness at it.

Ant

[Squire Grooktook]

Hey, I'm not saying they're identical or anything, but they are kinda similar. I mean, if I say the cell level you know what I'm talking about. If I say the green goo level you know what I'm talking about. If I say the mechanical base level then I could be talking about like half the game. Then you play II/III/IV/Gaiden, and every level is unique.
The game's also less diverse because the levels are so long. Gradius Gaiden gives you an interesting stage, then you finish it and go to the next interesting stage. Gradius V gives you a stage, and even if it is great it just keeps going and going. Four minutes of cell stage then four minutes of plant stage is a lot better than eight minutes of cell stage.

Naw, I think your problem is aesthetics. I can completely tell the difference between mechanical city stage 3 and mechanical base stage 7. They have very different designs, completely. They're just not aesthetically different enough besides the color scheme. The problem is that there's no "nature" areas like the original Gradius. Every thing is space station space opera themed.

And like I said, I think Gradius V is more diverse. maybe not aesthetically, but each stage feels so wildly different from the last one, and the length of each stage is okay because the first half of the stage might be wildly different from the second half. Almost nothing is ever really recycled ('cept the last stage).

Cell stage first half = Gau rush, shifting walls, suiciding tentacle things blocking your ways, homing cells from the wall, and popcorn catepillars coming out of crevices while launcing bullets.

Cell stage second half = Regen walls, tape worm barrages, volcanoes, and worms that tunnel through the walls.

And then it caps it off with a pretty interesting boss. Gradius V is epic. End of story.

[Aleksei]

Like several posts before me and myself included, haven't played the game yet. I saw the STG weekly 1cc and I would add it to my top 25 when I do play it.

[NzzpNzzp]

Naw, I think your problem is aesthetics.

That doesn't help, but I was complaining about the levels too. Flying through the base, destroying all the turrets/hatches/duckers is cool, but it gets old fast. Even if there are some big enemies or the direction changes, it's still nothing compared to the good stuff like lava everywhere carrying terrain along, or ice crystals breaking apart and bouncing off each other, or a black hole sucking mountains/bullets/missiles away. When people say diverse in Gradius games that's what I've come to expect, not more turrets/hatches/duckers except now the screen scrolls down.

And like I said, I think Gradius V is more diverse. maybe not aesthetically, but each stage feels so wildly different from the last one

Except every other Gradius game does that too. I mean, don't try and tell me V is more creative than Gaiden. V ain't got nothing that can stand up to stuff like the crystal or the black hole stages in that.

[Squire Grooktook]

The thing is, those "terrain with enemy spawners, turrets covering the walls and floors, popcorn enemies flying by" set up is the core of every single Gradius game. Every single Gradius game I can think of, every level is basically that + a new environmental or enemy gimmick. Yes, there are some exceptions that don't have that at all, like Burning Heat, but I'd still go so far as to that the turrets are the quintessential Gradius enemy.

And I do think most of the stages in Gradius V are more diverse or creative then the rest of the series. Granted, I haven't played Gaiden yet. But Gradius V's stages are my favorites in pretty much any environmental hazard based shmup.

Like I said, the things that you mention like the lack of lava or ice crystals is mostly aesthetic because there are hazards that fulfill exactly those roles. Want bouncy environmental hazards? The Zelos in the first stage and the numerous asteroids bouncing off each-other and breaking apart fulfill that role and are perfectly fun. Want Lava? The wavy, shifting organic planes of the Cell stages fulfill that role nicely, complete with enemies riding on top and shifting back and forth with it.

[Edmond Dantes]

Hey man, for all this talk of people not loving Gradius V enough, I wonder if the real best shmup ever made was even nominated for any of those polls.

And you can guess what shmup I'm talking about (hint: ship with tentacles)

[NzzpNzzp]

The thing is, those "terrain with enemy spawners, turrets covering the walls and floors, popcorn enemies flying by" set up is the core of every single Gradius game. Every single Gradius game I can think of, every level is basically that + a new environmental or enemy gimmick. Yes, there are some exceptions that don't have that at all, like Burning Heat, but I'd still go so far as to that the turrets are the quintessential Gradius enemy.

They are, yeah, but they need something else going on to be interesting. Other enemy types, interesting terrain, something else. V spends too much time with nothing else but turrets/hatches/duckers. It's double bad since they're even less interesting to fight now with the superpowered options.

And I do think most of the stages in Gradius V are more diverse or creative then the rest of the series. Granted, I haven't played Gaiden yet. But Gradius V's stages are my favorites in pretty much any environmental hazard based shmup.

Oh, man, you haven't played Gaiden? You're missing out! Or possibly you're not missing out since you can play it and experience it new and holy shit it's the best thing ever oh god so good. I wish I could do that again.

Like I said, the things that you mention like the lack of lava or ice crystals is mostly aesthetic because there are hazards that fulfill exactly those roles. Want bouncy environmental hazards? The Zelos in the first stage and the numerous asteroids bouncing off each-other and breaking apart fulfill that role and are perfectly fun. Want Lava? The wavy, shifting organic planes of the Cell stages fulfill that role nicely, complete with enemies riding on top and shifting back and forth with it.

Hey, that's what I'm saying. Inventive stages like the cell stage and the green goo stage are good. It's the base full of turrets/hatches/duckers that I'm complaining about.

Anyway, I really doubt either of us are ever going to convince each other, so I'll just pull an argumentum ad populum and say that Gaiden is better than V since it beat it in the most recent poll of the best games and leave it at that. I'm out, woo.

[Squire Grooktook]

I definitely want to play Gaiden. But I will not concede that it's better based on popularity (though I know you were saying so in jest).

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I think that the stages in V are tight and challenging from beginning to end, with lots of cool stuff going on. But whatever.

[LSU]

I've been playing V a lot recently.

Gradius is just about my favourite all-time shmup franchise ... The first game pretty much introduced me to scrolling STGs when I was a lad... And while Gaiden still remains my absolute pick for best of the bunch, V is of course awesome. The most noticeable problems with it - purely for me - are:
- Not quite enough variation in level themes... e.g. No Maoi heads? WTF!!! ... No plant level, no rocky ground with trees, no bubbles, no ice, no fire... etc. It's almost all quite tech-heavy spaceship themes (apart from the 'planety' G2 and organic Salamander-esque levels) and overall it looks more like Ikaruga in terms of overall texturing than what we've come to expect from a Gradius game.
- Level two (and it's later reprise through the alternate route at the end) simply isn't TIGHT enough. I know it's not an arcade game and as such can be a little 'looser' - but - it just seems a little easy and out of place to me. And to use this level twice... ? (An interesting story point, sure, but a repeating gameplay point of interest..?)
- Disclaimer: I love Treasure. I love Ikaruga and I love Radiant Silvergun perhaps even more. I love the fact they had team members who were allegedly involved with the original Gradius games. And I love Gradius V. A lot. And it has some lovely level design. (Cores as mid level bosses, the green gas level, the super dense asteroids that you have to also use as shields against the boss, the 'rolling' objects you can use to block thick lasers later on... The walking / wall-hugging bosses... etc!) But still, somehow... I just can't help wishing that it looked and felt more like a traditional Gradius game... Yes, I know there are stand-ins for these features, but it still doesn't quite look or feel quite right for me, someone who's been a fan of the series ever since the first game appeared in the arcades. But of course, it's still awesome, it's still EPIC and it's still one of the finest shooters available... it IS quality.... And I voted for it! Nevertheless... GAIDEN is still the best in the series for me because it is also epic, it is also innovative... it is also quality ... it is varied... and it feels right.

[Sly Cherry Chunks]

GV's bloatedness has been getting me down recently. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that this and Gaiden are as good as each other. V overcomes its snooze-inducing length with it's superior, inovative weapon system and awesomely designed battles. Gaiden takes the traditional formula and presents it's ultimate incarnation - bigger, better, prettier.

I'm not trendy enough to hate Treasure yet.

[MSZ]

As good as I was at this game(I've reached 2-7 twice), I haven't touched GV in many years. Gaiden to me is far more enjoyable.

GV does have a killer soundtrack though.

[Special World]

Q: Is there any sort of english release of Gradius Gaiden?

[Sly Cherry Chunks]

^PSP Collection.

[Special World]

Ah, it would be on PSP. I assume the japanese PSX disc won't work on a US PS3, right?

ED: Apparently not. I'll probably order Gaiden and Gradius V once I'm done playing SMT Nocturne. Gradius Collection is dirt cheap, it seems. Like everything on PSP, I guess.

[CID]

In in my top 5. Was thinking about getting back to that one after watching episode 12 on it the other week.

[Edmond Dantes]

Ah, it would be on PSP. I assume the japanese PSX disc won't work on a US PS3, right?

No, but modchipped PS1s can be had for peanuts.

[Seahawk]

It's pretty long and does tend to drag on sometimes, especially compared to the games usually discussed on this forum. Its understandable how its generally slower approach to shooting and dodging can turn some people off.

It's kind of a learned love. I used to hate it for the above issues, but then I started to appreciate the sheer spectable and experience of those bosses. They're like nothing else in the series.

Also, Checkpoints are half the battle. I feel that you do yourself a great disservice in not playing the game with the usual do-or-die checkpoints.

[Squire Grooktook]

Yeah, the boss fights are a big part of the appeal also.

[Special World]

Got Gradius Collection and Gradius V in the mail today. How are these games so hard. These are the hardest things I have ever played.

Gradius Gaiden and Gradius V are an acceptable difficulty, but the other games are so very very difficult. Halp.

[boagman]

I haven't fallen out of love with it at all. I just haven't been able to play it in donkey's years. Superb memories of it, though. Plus, it's a horizontal shooter, which means it's got an added plus in my book.

[Drachenherz]

Yay! Got Gradius V in the mail yesterday. It is...

Beautiful!

Can't wait to play some more.

[Special World]

After playing the previous Gradius games, I was pretty disappointed that the ship styles seem so similar in Gradius V. But now that I actually tried the multiple button out - wow, that is an extremely fun mechanic.

I will agree that the levels feel too samey though, in that they all feel like they came out of Ikaruga. The game plays extremely well though. I'm really liking how they revised Gradius's mechanics in a way that feels totally natural in order to make the game not feel so punishing.

[psoslayer]

I never loved it... the option select system was too dated and the non-skipable cutscenes made it unenjoyable for me.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

After playing the previous Gradius games, I was pretty disappointed that the ship styles seem so similar in Gradius V. But now that I actually tried the multiple button out - wow, that is an extremely fun mechanic.

Once you clear the 1st loop of the game (you can use continues), you unlock Weapon Edit which lets you customize your ship's weapons/options/shield type however you like and it unlocks several new weapons to use like the classic Ripple (which fills the screen!), a Flamethrower, a charge laser and the extremely powerful (and short-ranged) spread bombs.

With enough playtime you'll eventually unlock Free Play, so even if you have trouble with the game you'll eventually get Weapon Edit with patience.

[Obiwanshinobi]

I can't recommend the practice mode enough, GV's scale is potentially terrifying until you've compartmentalised it sufficiently.

Same here and it can be said about S&P2 as well. Both have magnificent practice modes.
Everybody who thinks Gradius V doesn't excel at anything should go play around with Type 2 multiple lasers. Some Fun Weapons™ for y'all.

[Squire Grooktook]

You know I was thinking, in a lot of ways, Gradius V and Treasure shmups in general are a lot like The Lord of The Rings.

Either you think it's a masterfully crafted epic, or it's a pretentious snoozer.

Treasure is the J.R.R Tolkien of shmups lol.