Question about japanese Saturn output on scart

[Lawfer]

And using a system like a Wii on a 15khz CRT is rubbish anyway. You should use systems that are capable of 31khz output (XBox, Cube, Wii, DC) with 31+khz monitors. Otherwise you're throwing away half the resolution.

Then I will use the Wii on my other CRT who has two scart input, how much Khz do the KV series from Sony with FE-1 chassis have?

[Fudoh]

Every Scart connection is limited to 15khz (240p and 480i).

Scart in general - while nice - is still a consumer connection. If you want Scart, you're limited to consumer TV sets and a very few monitors which hardly will give you better quality than a TV set. If you want "better", then you have to upgrade your cabling as well. A Scart breakout adapter is an easy solution to that.

[Lawfer]

Every Scart connection is limited to 15khz (240p and 480i).

Scart in general - while nice - is still a consumer connection. If you want Scart, you're limited to consumer TV sets and a very few monitors which hardly will give you better quality than a TV set. If you want "better", then you have to upgrade your cabling as well. A Scart breakout adapter is an easy solution to that.

Okay so are there any custom BNC cables to hook on consoles or whatever that wont be limiting the Khz?

This guy did his own custom BNCs cabling:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52BrbQlpMN0

Also aside from the Wii, any other non-HD consoles that ouput more then 15Khz?

Just trying to know which consoles is more suited for what kind of crt.

[Fudoh]

Okay so are there any custom BNC cables to hook on consoles or whatever that wont be limiting the Khz?

a bit complicated to answer. Usually the source system limits itself to 15khz once a Scart cable is connected.

This guy did his own custom BNCs cabling:

it's pretty safe to say to almost everybody here on the board uses custom cabling.

Also aside from the Wii, any other non-HD consoles that ouput more then 15Khz?

Dreamcast (90% of the games output in 31khz)
Cube (80% of the NTSC games output in 31khz)
PS2 (hard to put a number on it, but many of the important titles output in 31khz)

[Lawfer]

a bit complicated to answer. Usually the source system limits itself to 15khz once a Scart cable is connected.

What to do then?

it's pretty safe to say to almost everybody here on the board uses custom cabling.

I dont lol. What should I start to look for to change the cablings?

Dreamcast (90% of the games output in 31khz)
Cube (80% of the NTSC games output in 31khz)
PS2 (hard to put a number on it, but many of the important titles output in 31khz)

So strictly scart connection are only good enough for Saturn, Playstation, Super Famicom/Nes/Nintendo, Genesis/Megadrive and anything older, because these consoles and their games do not output higher than 15Khz, right?

[kamiboy]

31khz games on consoles are traditionally played via component cables. If your display supports 31khz component then buy such a cable for each and call it a day.

[Lawfer]

31khz games on consoles are traditionally played via component cables. If your display supports 31khz component then buy such a cable for each and call it a day.

I already have everything I need on that end, the thing is I never really liked the way SD games from SD consoles look like on non-SD gaming setup.

So I want the best performance and best visual all around for SD gaming, componant doesnt deliver that.

I mean component was pretty good for 3D PSP games like The 3rd Birthday, but on the other hand Wii games (aside from Dead Space Extraction) and pixel based SD games do not look as they should.

Anyways what do you guys use? Because from what Fudoh is saying is that you are neither using Scart, nor composite, nor componant or any other official consumer based cabling.

[Fudoh]

On a system that outputs both - RGB via Scart or component you will hardly be able to tell a difference in picture quality (provided you look at the same game using the same cable).

So strictly scart connection are only good enough for Saturn, Playstation, Super Famicom/Nes/Nintendo, Genesis/Megadrive and anything older, because these consoles and their games do not output higher than 15Khz, right?

that's right.

[Lawfer]

On a system that outputs both - RGB via Scart or component you will hardly be able to tell a difference in picture quality (provided you look at the same game using the same cable).

So what kind of custom cabling should I seek? Please answer, this is not a secret is it?

that's right.

I see, great.

[Fudoh]

So what kind of custom cabling should I seek? Please answer, this is not a secret is it?

it's not a secret, but can't be answered until you decide for a monitor.

For example: to use 15khz Scart sources on that Sony BVM I mentioned you need a Scart to BNC breakout cable. Something like this: http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=43883

If you use a 31khz CRT for those newer systems, you either use component cables or a VGA connection. VGA to component or component to VGA can easily be done using a box called a transcoder.

PS: forgot to add XBox to the 31khz list. Most games output in 31khz.

[Lawfer]

So what kind of custom cabling should I seek? Please answer, this is not a secret is it?

it's not a secret, but can't be answered until you decide for a monitor.

Well it is because I did not have all the information in hand, so what about getting two monitors, one monitor like those 15Khz PVM QM or KX PS1 for the 15Khz gaming systems like the Playstation, Saturn and anything older and another monitor appropriate for 31Khz gaming systems like the Dreamcast, Playstation 2, Xbox, Gamecube and everything else that came after?

For example: to use 15khz Scart sources on that Sony BVM I mentioned you need a Scart to BNC breakout cable. Something like this: http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=43883

If you use a 31khz CRT for those newer systems, you either use component cables or a VGA connection. VGA to component or component to VGA can easily be done using a box called a transcoder.

Which is best in terms of quality, fidelity, authenticity and performance? VGA or Component?

PS: forgot to add XBox to the 31khz list. Most games output in 31khz.

Yeah figured that out as it was obvious, since Xbox was from the same generation as the Playstation 2 and especially since Xbox was way ahead of its time.

[kamiboy]

I already have everything I need on that end, the thing is I never really liked the way SD games from SD consoles look like on non-SD gaming setup.

So I want the best performance and best visual all around for SD gaming, componant doesnt deliver that.

You seem to be very confused as to the nature of component. It is just an analoug signal, like RGB. In terms of quality they are evenly matched for any type of signal, SD or HD. I use component for any SD console of mine that supports it and I play them all on a CRT.

Get yourself a CRT that supports 15 and 31khz signals and can accept both component and RGB via BNC. That is all you will ever need for SD gaming. Something like PVM 20L5 or A/D series PVM 20F1U's.

[Lawfer]

You seem to be very confused as to the nature of component. It is just an analoug signal, like RGB. In terms of quality they are evenly matched for any type of signal, SD or HD. I use component for any SD console of mine that supports it and I play them all on a CRT.

I know what Component is, I used it for the first generation Xbox 360, Playstation 2, PSP-2000, PSP Go, Gamecube and Wii. The thing is, I was not aware that there was such as thing as a non-HD SD CRT that has component inputs, I thought it was just a thing for 2000s TVs that are not SD.

Get yourself a CRT that supports 15 and 31khz signals and can accept both component and RGB via BNC. That is all you will ever need for SD gaming.

Okay.

Something like PVM 20L5 or A/D series PVM 20F1U's.

I am in Europe.

[kamiboy]

Those models exist in Europe as well, but they might have a different model number, I am not sure.

I'll leave it to Fudoh to sort you out on that departement. Of course being in Europe will complicate things as far as availability. Professional displays of that caliber are decidedly rarer to find over there.

But there are a few consumer CRT's in Europe that accept progressive scan (480p) via component. They came out mostly in the early to mid 2000's. These days they are are dirt cheap and plentiful because people want to be rid of them.

I remember I had a PAL Panasonic TV, 4:3 chassis with progressive scan capable component inputs, so they exist.

[Lawfer]

Those models exist in Europe as well, but they might have a different model number, I am not sure.

Of course, for example PVM-2950Q in the US is PVM-2730QM in Europe.

I'll leave it to Fudoh to sort you out on that departement. Of course being in Europe will complicate things as far as availability. Professional displays of that caliber are decidedly rarer to find over there.

Okay.

But there are a few consumer CRT's in Europe that accept progressive scan (480p) via component. They came out mostly in the early to mid 2000's. These days they are are dirt cheap and plentiful because people want to be rid of them.

I remember I had a PAL Panasonic TV, 4:3 chassis with progressive scan capable component inputs, so they exist.

Never heard of any around here, but yay for knowledge.

[Lawfer]

Well Fudoh seem to be offline...

[Fudoh]

Well, decide what you want. You can use a multisync monitor or TV set or you can use two displays. If size is not this important (seems like it), you can use a nice PC CRT (17 to 21") for the 31khz systems (but then you need a YUV to VGA transcoder).

Of course, for example PVM-2950Q in the US is PVM-2730QM in Europe.

I owned an european PVM-2950QM. That's the top of the line "cube" PVM and several years younger than a 2730 (which I owned as well).

[Lawfer]

Well, decide what you want. You can use a multisync monitor or TV set or you can use two displays. If size is not this important (seems like it), you can use a nice PC CRT (17 to 21") for the 31khz systems (but then you need a YUV to VGA transcoder).

Ideally for the size I would like something between 20" to 29".

Well I will just get two Systems:

One native 15Khz SD CRT 50/60Hz to hookup using Euro-scart, so either:

PVM-1440QM
PVM-2130QM
PVM-2730QM
PVM-2950QM
KX-21PS1
KX-27PS1

Another one native 34Khz SD CRT, to hookup using custom Component/VGA-to-BNC cables, but I have no idea which TVs/Monitors of this kind are good though.

Are there regional restrictions that apply on VGA and Component based connections like there is for Scart?

I owned an european PVM-2950QM. That's the top of the line "cube" PVM and several years younger than a 2730 (which I owned as well).

Oh I thought that was the American version, well since you owned both which is the best in your opinion the 2730 or 2950?

[Fudoh]

Another one native 34Khz SD CRT, to hookup using custom Component/VGA-to-BNC cables, but I have no idea which TVs/Monitors of this kind are good though.

in Europe the last 2 generations of Panasonic TVs did accept progressive component video.

Are there regional restrictions that apply on VGA and Component based connections like there is for Scart?

If you get progressive from a system it will be 480p60. Can't think of anything with 576p50. PAL Gamecubes don't have progressive support.

well since you owned both which is the best in your opinion the 2730 or 2950?

The 2950's tube is darker and flatter and it's about 10 years younger. Not easy to find though.

[Lawfer]

If you get progressive from a system it will be 480p60. Can't think of anything with 576p50. PAL Gamecubes don't have progressive support.

The Euro gamecube does not have progressive scan? Really, wow that sucks. I have a US gamecube with official component cables, so I wouldnt have guessed.

The 2950's tube is darker and flatter and it's about 10 years younger. Not easy to find though.

Indeed, I will try though.

[Fudoh]

I have a US gamecube with official component cables, so I wouldnt have guessed.

Nintendo removed the component connection from later NTSC units as well, so no progressive on those either.

[Lawfer]

Nintendo removed the component connection from later NTSC units as well, so no progressive on those either.

That I knew of, I remember reading back in 2007 that they removed it to save money and because not many were using progressive.

[Fudoh]

because not many were using progressive.

I think they actually discontinued the matching cable before that already. And what about US units ? Didn't US machines have the digital outputs, but no cables available at all ?

[RGB32E]

because not many were using progressive.

I think they actually discontinued the matching cable before that already. And what about US units ? Didn't US machines have the digital outputs, but no cables available at all ?

The only way to purchase the component cable was to call NoA. I'm pretty sure more people would have used component if they sold the cable in retail. Then again, SoA did the same thing with the DC VGA box. However, generic VGA boxes were available.

[Lawfer]

I think they actually discontinued the matching cable before that already. And what about US units ? Didn't US machines have the digital outputs, but no cables available at all ?

Lol I think so because when I wanted one the only available means of getting a component cable were all for the japanese version, I got mine from some Japanese guy on ebay years ago.

[Lawfer]

Fudoh could you tell me if the PVM-2950QM has Scart input like the PVM-2130QM and PVM-2730QM?

[Fudoh]

no, it does not. It takes RGBs through BNC connections.

[Lawfer]

no, it does not. It takes RGBs through BNC connections.

Okay thanks, damn I am having a real hard time finding this monitor.

[iflexx]

Get any monitor you like and then get the proper cables. For example you can get a PVM to female scart adapter, right here http://www.retrogamingcables.com/ (or here on our board in the Trading Station). Those cables are available with a DB25 connector for the really old PVMs or with BNC for the more common PVM sets or even with a Sync cleaner installed in case your PVM requires a pure sync signal.

Then just get any Saturn RGB cable with European Scart layout to match the PVM adapter cable.

Hey Fudoh this sound the like best option for me - I just picked up a white japanese saturn and I want to hook it up to my PVM!
I already have that PVM to female scart cable from RGC, I just wanted to know if you had any recommendations on where I should get my Saturn RGB cable from?? (with European Scart layout to match the PVM adapter cable). RGC is sold out it seems and I'm just hesitant to pick one up from any old place...

Also are you sure this works? I thought i read accounts online of euro scart cables not working on Japanese saturns - but as your are the ever knowledgable I trust your opinion over all others!

[Fudoh]

Also are you sure this works? I thought i read accounts online of euro scart cables not working on Japanese saturns

I used an official PAL RGB cable on both my model 1 and model 2 japanese saturn units.