Pope Resigns

[Koa Zo]

I'd really like that someone got there and reformed the mess that is the catholic church now.

Too big a job for God?

[O. Van Bruce]

I'd really like that someone got there and reformed the mess that is the catholic church now.

Too big a job for God?

Nah, it would take just an honest man in the right place and with enough time... the pope is powerful enough to impose his authority over the church without too much problems. It almost happened 55 years ago.

[Skykid]

May I ask are warnings indefinite then?

Would a mod mind getting back to me to clarify this? Sorry it's not OT, but since it came up here, may as well not open a new line of enquiry.
Would genuinely like to know, since I assumed (incorrectly perhaps) that warnings had a lifespan before expiry. Thanks in advance.

[Aguraki]

pope obv wanna try sex b4 he goes

[Skykid]

pope obv wanna try sex b4 he goes

Ha ha, new headline: "Life of celibacy too much for Pope to handle".

Where's dem choir boyz at.

[O. Van Bruce]

pope obv wanna try sex b4 he goes

Just, what?

[nZero]

May I ask are warnings indefinite then?

Would a mod mind getting back to me to clarify this? Sorry it's not OT, but since it came up here, may as well not open a new line of enquiry.
Would genuinely like to know, since I assumed (incorrectly perhaps) that warnings had a lifespan before expiry. Thanks in advance.

Oh my, yes. The little number goes down over time due to how PHPBB3 is set up, but the actual warnings are there forever, and they tend to be treated that way.

[Hagane]

Good thing this pedo defender, conservative ex-nazi went away. The next one will probably not be much better though.

As for the debate: who cares. Any religion is fine as long as it works to improve their believers. Some people need something to believe in to give them strength in harsh situations, others follow religion to actively do good deeds for the community, and so on. Inspecting each other's beliefs with a microscope in search of trivial canonical inconsistencies is so pointless. It doesn't really matter if you pray to Saints or celebrate festivities like Christmas that are full of Pagan elements, really.

[O. Van Bruce]

Good thing this pedo defender, conservative ex-nazi went away. The next one will probably not be much better though.

As for the debate: who cares. Any religion is fine as long as it works to improve their believers. Some people need something to believe in to give them strength in harsh situations, others follow religion to actively do good deeds for the community, and so on. Inspecting each other's beliefs with a microscope in search of trivial canonical inconsistencies is so pointless. It doesn't really matter if you pray to Saints or celebrate festivities like Christmas that are full of Pagan elements, really.

Hahahaahaha. Well, he couldn't do anything since he wasn't fit for the task and he obvioulsy was very conservative. About the next pope... I think some good things can happen because there isn't a figure of concensus as strong as Ratzinger now. Besides, the last conclave was very inconclusive and this will be even more... I have hope in this one.


About the debate... I just think everyone here need to read the bible. You can get lots of information and comprehend so much things just by reading some books of it... more than in any sunday school or any catechesis.

PD: I'm not exactly a religious person (I like lolicon, that would make a fucking perv... not of 3D, god forbid it) but I like most of christian teachings and you can understand lots of things about the western civilization through the bible.

[Skykid]

Oh my, yes. The little number goes down over time due to how PHPBB3 is set up, but the actual warnings are there forever, and they tend to be treated that way.

Good to know, thanks for getting back to me.

About the debate... I just think everyone here need to read the bible.

Got to hand it to you, that's the most surreptitious technique for spreading the faith I've encountered yet.

[O. Van Bruce]

Oh my, yes. The little number goes down over time due to how PHPBB3 is set up, but the actual warnings are there forever, and they tend to be treated that way.

Good to know, thanks for getting back to me.

About the debate... I just think everyone here need to read the bible.

Got to hand it to you, that's the most surreptitious technique for spreading the faith I've encountered yet.

Did you read my PD? I barely go to church ... what I think is that there are too much people talking freely about the christian religion while most of then haven't even read the bible thoroughly. How can you debate about that without reading it first?

Same happens with the muslims. I've even read some parts of the Koran...

[KAI]

The bible is a compilation of stories about moral, love and shit like that. Do you really think you can be converted by reading it?

[Skykid]

About the debate... I just think everyone here need to read the bible.

Got to hand it to you, that's the most surreptitious technique for spreading the faith I've encountered yet.

Did you read my PD? I barely go to church ... what I think is that there are too much people talking freely about the christian religion while most of then haven't even read the bible thoroughly. How can you debate about that without reading it first?

I'm just yanking your chain dude, I know what you were getting at.

[dex]

he is the first pope to resign in 600 years. also the papal prophesies say that the next pope will be the last. very interesting to read. it predicted all 112 popes.

Those were actually a medieval forgery to apparently stop some cardinal [allegedly] named Peter from becoming the pope back then.

Actually they were a forgery to get a pope elected (the only one to fit the description of the pope they were about to choose). The gambit failed.

But yes, the popes before the text was 'discovered' fit the 'predictions' perfectly, then abruptly every one after needs completely unrelated and outlandish facts to make a connection. Almost like someone was writing vague descriptions and then after the pope was chosen, someone made the 'predictions' apply retroactively.

The text of these predictions was never any use in predicting the pope before election. Pretty obviously a scam.

[Casey120]

It is pretty shocking, though. I figure the resignation couldn't be in anticipation of personal scandal, since this would draw even more attention.

There's a rumor in the Vatican that he wasn't attracted to little Boys so he really had to go !

[antron]

Giving up the papacy for Lent seems a little extreme. Couldn't he just give up coffee or something?

Ok, took that from Jezebel..

rumor is he has a bad ticker.

[Vyxx]

The bible is a compilation of stories about moral, love and shit like that.

We really must not have read the same book then.

[antron]

I read all about the scourging and the crowning with thorns and I could viddy myself helping in and even taking charge of the tolchoking and the nailing in. Being dressed in the height of roman fashion. I didn't so much like the latter part of the book which is like all preachy talking than fighting and the old in-out. I like the parts where these old yahooties tolchok each other and then drink their Hebrew vino and getting on to the bed with their wife's handmaidens. That kept me going.

[O. Van Bruce]

I read all about the scourging and the crowning with thorns and I could viddy myself helping in and even taking charge of the tolchoking and the nailing in. Being dressed in the height of roman fashion. I didn't so much like the latter part of the book which is like all preachy talking than fighting and the old in-out. I like the parts where these old yahooties tolchok each other and then drink their Hebrew vino and getting on to the bed with their wife's handmaidens. That kept me going.

Real men read the books of Samuel without crying manly tears.

[Friendly]

The bible is nothing but a disjointed collection of fairy-tales created and continually altered over the course of several centuries (old testament: between 3,000 and 2,500 years ago) that reflects the morals that were deemed desirable for their society at the time by the group of people who created it and who wished to control their society with it. Between 250 BCE and 100 CE they stopped changing and updating the collected texts (see: Septuagint) and it has remained the same since. Obviously its many authors had a very limited understanding of the universe. Philosophically, it's rather primitive and understandably often contradictory; for instance ancient Greek philosophy had already reached a much higher intellectual level around 600 BCE.

I consider it nothing more than a curiosity that should be of interest only to scholars who wish to learn more about the morals and believes of a small group of people from a small geographic region some 2,500 years ago. (=Not to me).

As such, it is of little use to modern society and often quite harmful ("Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it"). On a personal level, it puts its recipients into a continuous state of fear and guilt; certainly not a blueprint on how to lead a happy and fullfilled life. Better not to clutter one's mind with it.

[Friendly]

The new pope should be a chicken.

Best post in this thread.

[O. Van Bruce]

The bible is nothing but a disjointed collection of fairy-tales created and continually altered over the course of several centuries (old testament: between 3,000 and 2,500 years ago) that reflects the morals that were deemed desirable for their society at the time by the group of people who created it and who wished to control their society with it. Between 250 BCE and 100 CE they stopped changing and updating the collected texts (see: Septuagint) and it has remained the same since. Obviously its many authors had a very limited understanding of the universe. Philosophically, it's rather primitive and understandably often contradictory; for instance ancient Greek philosophy had already reached a much higher intellectual level around 600 BCE.

I consider it nothing more than a curiosity that should be of interest only to scholars who wish to learn more about the morals and believes of a small group of people from a small geographic region some 2,500 years ago. (=Not to me).

As such, it is of little use to modern society and often quite harmful ("Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it"). On a personal level, it puts its recipients into a continuous state of fear and guilt; certainly not a blueprint on how to lead a happy and fullfilled life. Better not to clutter one's mind with it.

Nobody is saying that you should read it to learn morals. If you really want to take an ethical approach in the Bible, just the gospels are fine... unless you want to read also the epistles.

I'm an scholar myself . been studying history since a kid. You should try to read it taking in account the context in which they were written or compiled. For example, most of the old testament books were compiled sometime bettwen 800-600 a.C.

Really, don't discard it just because it's a religious book or an old compilation. There are some good stories in it like the books of Samuel I've mentioned before or the Maccabees

If you want to take it to a greek philosophy level then go read the church fathers, but beware, they are hard to read

[Ed Oscuro]

[Lord Satori]

I'd have to say one of the worst abominations to arise from that book (other than revalation, which is just the ravings of a schizophrenic lunatic) is the story of abraham trying to kill his son "because god tells him to". But then "Oh! An angel spares him! This means you should always listen to gods word!" No. This means that you tried to murder your flesh and blood in the name of religion. I'm with Friendly, that book does far more harm than good.

[EmperorIng]

I think some people forget that Benedict XVI was one of the greatest intellectuals in the modern Church.

No further payment is required, Christ cried 'It is done' whilst on the Cross, the spiritual transaction has been paid in full at the cost of God's only Son. So in light of that, works-based religions encouraging good deeds as part of the way thru Heaven's gates don't seem to fall nicely into place within this model. It just isn't logical in my opinion.

Not trying to stir the pot too hard, but this is how Scripture tells it. And the only way to test Scripture is with...more Scripture. Anything not present and correct is likely a human invention, or an idea cultivating mans word, not Gods.

See, this line of reasoning is funny, because protestant denominations cut out the part of the bible that said "works are just as important as faith"

Some cry Sola Scriptura, and then ignore the Letter of St. James.

I'd have to say one of the worst abominations to arise from that book (other than revalation, which is just the ravings of a schizophrenic lunatic) is the story of abraham trying to kill his son "because god tells him to". But then "Oh! An angel spares him! This means you should always listen to gods word!" No. This means that you tried to murder your flesh and blood in the name of religion. I'm with Friendly, that book does far more harm than good.

Sort of misses the point of the story of Abraham, which is ultimately a story about faith and the nature of absolute faith.

Look up the videos of Fr. Robert Barron, here is a video about Abraham for reference, who has some of the most lucid and informative videos explaining Catholic doctrine. Fr. Robert Barron is a great man whom I've had the pleasure to know through my older brother for several years, and he is one of the great voices of Catholicism in our modern age (a little extravagant, perhaps, but I like 'em).

[antron]

I figure he gets the point about absolute faith, which is exactly what many of us have a problem with. Nothing should have the power to convince an individual to commit such an act. Or I should say, no one should let such an influence into their mind.

To say to yourself, "this seems wrong, but I must trust that God has a plan" is a very dangerous thought. You can point it anywhere, without even realizing why. How many evangelicals salivate at the thought of proselytizing the Arab world as we stomp all over it? Trust in god!

By the way, if god speaks directly to you it's not faith at all anyway.

[Ed Oscuro]

The problem (slim as it may be) with saying you can't trust in god is that there's no guarantee what is meant to replace it is anywhere close to being infallible either. I do suspect that "God" often stands in for "tradition and common sentiments" but the idea of it, at least, is interesting, and there's also surely something that underlies right action (or at least, if you are a nihilist, underlying conventional "right" action). And as it turns out, people are willing to do terrible things in service of one set of views, however they justify it, and somebody else is willing to call it terrible. Whether or not either person in this process is justified seems completely opaque.

There are a couple other points we should consider, though.

On most and the broadest issues (such as: torture, murder, the importance of honesty, etc.) religious people (who might try to justify their beliefs with a god) have the same beliefs as other people. Whether or not you have justified something in the right way is of secondary importance (at least in day-to-day life) to having the right motive, intuition, or belief, which would seem to be the harder thing to figure out if there wasn't a common source of beliefs.

And there is also nothing stopping people who profess to hold the same belief from having disagreements about right conduct. The modern Christian probably has misgivings about whether the Binding of Isaac is a good model for conduct. Others will point to the apparently unique circumstances of the story as a sign that their god wouldn't ask something so unreasonable about them.

Of course there is always the most obvious question - whether in truth the Christian attempt to justify right conduct really solves the problem, since it asserts something is true which we can't test.

A possible response to that is simply that if there is any path that will lead to right conduct, that is the one. But this argument seems to work for non-religious or areligious views, too, about conventional belief, and perhaps is stronger for that side because it seems easier to admit that there can be no way of finding the source of goodness in right conduct - although that doesn't mean there isn't one. Yet the main advantage of this view - the source of righteousness could be god, could be something else, could just be the story we have as a result of being alive - takes us right back to the original problem, which is: How do you know this is the right thing? And the last of these views is essentially to say "it doesn't really matter, we just believe it."

[Friendly]

God is but a reflection of the the minds of those who invented him; a projection if you will. That's why "God" is anthropomorphized: Man created God in his image (not the other way around), and that's why the image of God/Gods evolved over the course of history instead of being absolute. Praying is a form of soliloquizing. Religion may actually have provided an evolutionary advantage for societies at one point, for instance the way Judaism dictates strict rules of procreation in order to ensure genetic continuance while offering protection to the members of their group.

That's all there is to it, mystery solved. No need to write walls of text. I realize those cold hard facts are difficult to accept for those who have been brainwashed into believeing that supernatural beings are watching their every move 24/7 at a young age. I assume that at one point in your life you managed to accept that Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny aren't real either. So deal with it.

[EmperorIng]

Wow, you're right. Everything just got answered. Time to close up shop, people.

[Friendly]

I think the jig is almost up for Catholicism et al.