Upcoming Shmup from the Sina Mora Lead Developer

[Udderdude]

Also, way back then, there were a LOT less shmups to look to as good examples, or at least forward thinking ones. These days, there's a shitzillion shmups and forums to get info from. There's no excuse for making crap these days.

In any case, I hope the guy learns from his mistakes and makes something that's more worthy of score play.

[Alfred]

So the German made STG's on Dreamcast are amazing, but these Hungarian guys one is shit?. My problem with SM is the ship moves too fast, If they fixed that i could of enjoyed the game more. I know more is wrong with the game then just the controls.

[nZero]

So the German made STG's on Dreamcast are amazing

They are?

[BareKnuckleRoo]

I want to make a puzzle game that's a ripoff of Tetris with half the good pieces missing, the only ones that are left are ones that never fit together, you get the same score no matter how many lines at once are cleared, you can only rotate pieces in one direction, you can't speed up how fast they fall and there's no indicator of what piece is next. And randomly you'll get garbage blocks filling the screen just to piss people off.

I'm gonna make it so damn pretty it'll practically explode it's so full of eye-candy. Then I'll sit back and watch as reviewers praise me for being 'sophisticated' and 'reinventing the genre'.

[shmuppyLove]

Oh fuck yeah, my new signature.



Derp, or not ... even though it's 200px it won't let me.

At any rate, I propose that anything that's "mediocre" or "not very good" now be referred to as "shockingly sophisticated".

If the forums have a word filtering feature, this needs to be done.

[BPzeBanshee]

Also, way back then, there were a LOT less shmups to look to as good examples, or at least forward thinking ones. These days, there's a shitzillion shmups and forums to get info from. There's no excuse for making crap these days.

In any case, I hope the guy learns from his mistakes and makes something that's more worthy of score play.

QFT.

And even if it's not so out-there or deep or whatever for score stuff, if it's actually good and not broken like Sine Mora (and actually fits on a normal flatscreen TV never mind the old CRTs) I'll probably buy it.

[MEDIEVAL_MIKU]

I want to make a puzzle game that's a ripoff of Tetris with half the good pieces missing, the only ones that are left are ones that never fit together, you get the same score no matter how many lines at once are cleared, you can only rotate pieces in one direction, you can't speed up how fast they fall and there's no indicator of what piece is next. And randomly you'll get garbage blocks filling the screen just to piss people off.

I'm gonna make it so damn pretty it'll practically explode it's so full of eye-candy. Then I'll sit back and watch as reviewers praise me for being 'sophisticated' and 'reinventing the genre'.

It's Ikaruga syndrome where nobody has played the game but they hear from other people that it's sophisticated and is a step forward for the genre.

Also, Sine Mora doesn't even hold up as a game so I have zero faith in this guy making something remotely competent.

[ncc]

It's nice to know that Sine Mora was as universally reviled by the shmup community as it was by me. It felt like playing a game designed by someone whose experience with shmups is limited to the Ikaruga reviews linked on Metacritic.

[Kobayashi]

Good news.

[Vetus]

Sine Mora was so boring that I never bothered to play it till the end (the only good thing about it was the graphics) so I hope they'll make something better this time.

[ciox]

To add some news to the bump, there was an interview with Reiker recently that mentioned "Verona", hungarian machine translation sucks but apparently the game might be more "traditional".
http://animework.web4.hu/cikk/interju-t ... or-games-1

[BrianC]

Meh, it was their first try in this genre, wasn't it?

Remember guys, neither Espgaluda II nor Battle Garegga were Ikedas or Yagawas first shmups.

This doesn't excuse the poor decisions they did, Yagawa's first IIRC was Recca and that was kickass, so your point is moot.

Recca wasn't his first. He did Genius and Laserfight for MSX before that. Also, he used to work with Kid, so it's possible he could have been involved with one of thier other shmups.

[the2bears]

#shockinglysophisticatedshmup is now trending world-wide.

Bill

[qmish]

https://www.pcgamer.com/verona-is-a-sha ... sine-mora/

So it was gonna be 3rd person adventure and then got cancelled

Hey, Tetris!
https://www.destructoid.com/from-the-cr ... 4617.phtml

[Despatche]

I dunno. Mahou 1 'n DonPachi aren't the most wonderful things.

Mahou is a sequel to the Musha legacy. Musha is a terrible game. Mahou is a mostly great game. But this happened because they were taken away from crappy console design and forced to do proper arcade design.

Donpachi is also a successor to Grind Stormer and Batsugun, more than anything else. It's also an amazing game, and the fact that it's so different from its sequels is not at all a negative.

What I mean is that it also took a guy like Yakawa some time until he could create masterpieces. So I see no reason why a developer team can't grow and go from making a supposedly "bad" shmup to making a decent or good one.

Here's the problem: devs like this never learn.

Tempest 2000 is the same way as Sine Mora. It's not that good and it has a ton of problems. Unlike Sine Mora, it was also billed as a sequel to a game that is actually very good. Noone cared about any of this, because they didn't really play Tempest 2000... or Sine Mora.

Thing is, Tempest 2000 is a much better game than Sine Mora. It's a much better base to work with. That's how we got TxK, and according to sources, 3000. I heard 3000 is very different, but TxK tries to fix as many of 2000's problems as it possibly can. It's very clear that developer did not just learn, but learned without any real player feedback. He did the research himself, and truly understood what was wrong.

There are basically no other developers like Llamasoft. There are far too many developers like Digital Reality, or Prior Games, or whatever they'll call themselves in a few years.

[Special World]

The stages in Sine Mora are pretty blah (though I find the stages in many shmups to be pretty blah) but the main issues are that the special powers negatively impact scoring and there's no autofire cap. Both would be pretty easy fixes and the game would be okay. I agree that the next game probably won't be great, but the problems with Sine More aren't that *difficult* to correct, they're just pretty dumb mistakes that majorly impact gameplay.

Let's not go saying things like musha is terrible. Musha is a perfectly fine game.

[Despatche]

No, Musha actually is terrible. Offensively long levels where almost nothing happens, absolutely 0 challenge unless you're seeing the final boss for the first time, just barely not having completely broken scoring, etc. Just like Tempest 2000, all these great assets were wasted on a game that simply isn't worth them. Just like Tempest 2000, people who should know better adore it over better games by the same developers. The Musha developers learned better and made Mahou, which is simply far better in every way relating to game design. (not Shippuu, that game is wack, but that's because of how experimental it is. Shooting Mode is also still pretty fun)

(Dennin is also much better, pretty sure, even if it's by a different team. Shame we never got Dennin 2)

It really is not just "well I don't like it", that's Thunder Force. Thunder Force is alright, especially since it's a series of fairly different games. Some games are a little wonky, like III having such a strange difficulty curve and IV having broken scoring, but whatever. Gate of Thunder actually is a better game, but the Thunder Force games aren't really genuine trash like Musha is.

[Kollision]

just barely not having completely broken scorin

well I don't want to enter the discussion, but the score in MUSHA can be totally broken in less than one minute's time