Latest EGM slams three recent shooters

[LoneSage]

Their descent began with the re-design, after that their cred dropped faster than a toothless Vietnamese hooker that just saw a Ben Franklin.


What is this new Shiki game, anyways? Was it in that "Over in Japan" section of EGM?

[Specineff]

Since when did EGM cover import Ps2 games Like the new Shikigami ?

I got a better question: Since when do we care about what that overblown, full-of-hot-air Famitsu wannabee says?

Remember the "feature" with kids evaluating the old games? Gamers Republic Pwned them. Too bad it's gone. And Gamefan.

Basically, the only mag I can barely handle is Gamepro. At least their reviews are more or less fair. IMHO.

[Specineff]

Fuck those motherfuckers. I hate EGM. All they do is criticize great games for stupid shit. Unless you want to read issue after issue about how "great" and "revolutionary" GTA and Halo are, cancel that shit quick. Either that or continue to get it and just leave it in the bathroom...for toilet paper.

EGM is not worthy of my crap.

[icepick]

Well, I wasn't aware that Shiki 2 was originally Naomi, but I still wish this latest installment in the series would get a DC release.

Wish for a chance in hell of Shikigami no Shiro Episode III: Revenge of the Syth (ha ha! Non-infringing Play It localized PS2 title) seeing the light of day on DC, instead.

(Not very likely, but you never know. The finished game might still be do-able on the DC, given that early screen shots don't seem to be pushing the envelope too far, and that they brought SNSII to five or so platforms.)

I've been thinking about the idea of mentioning to Mastiff or Nippon Ichi that it'd be neat to have a localized version of Nanayoduki (I know, all signs point to me and tell me to say "Nanayozuki," but I see the domain and want to say "Nanayoduki." There's no "nanayozuki.com" either, so I have no idea of why things are the way that they are). It'd probably be too much work and too much risk, though.

LoneSage: http://forum.shmups.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2043

As for EGM talking about games... While no snowflake falls in the wrong place, it's too bad that those young ones that form their own opinions about games based on their personal feelings and enjoyment will probably feel like they'll have to defend their interests from those of their associates whom would apparently not think for themselves.

About the "must have gimmick" and "pressing only one button a lot" mentions -- I'll be that they still wouldn't be happy if a new game were to come out, featuring an advanced never-before-seen weapon control system where all ten buttons of a Dual Shock controller are used to fire a single bullet, and must be hit in the proper order for a continuous stream of fire.

Thank you for sharing, Mr Ganson!

[sethsez]

I got a better question: Since when do we care about what that overblown, full-of-hot-air Famitsu wannabee says?

In all fairness, Famitsu is also a worthless rag.

About the "must have gimmick"

Just for the sake of argument, isn't that pretty much how modern shmup fans see it? The scoring system is what makes or breaks just about every modern game in the genre, and when something like Shienryu is released, it gets plenty of "I preferred it when it was called Raiden" comments and is generally put down for being too simple.

Sure, we might say "system" instead of "gimmick," but it means the same thing either way in this case.

[Dandy J]

Sure, we might say "system" instead of "gimmick," but it means the same thing either way in this case.

Most of the time the two are related, but definitely not the same thing. In Iky's case, the 'gimmick' is the polarity mechanic, and the '[scoring] system' is the chaining. The casual gamer (or reviewer) will base much more of their opinion off the gimmick than the scoring system. Hell, most of the time I don't think they even pay attention to the scoring system.

[Bar81]

Memo to the shmups community, EGM may suck but has anyone actually taken a critical look at the games in question. If you did you would realize they suck George Michael's dick. EGM may be worthless but this only proves that once in a while they are on the money.

Oh, and for those thinking that Famitsu is some sort of holy piece of work, it's full of worthless scores every month. EVERY magazine gets paid off by advertisers so if you think that say famitsu gives honest reviews...

[PFG 9000]

If you look at those "articles" in context, they certainly don't suggest that EGM is anti-shooter or anti-oldschool. Prof. Ganson happens to have taken the Sigma Star Saga quote very much out of context, as the mini-review says something to the effect of "the game is good, but it doesn't compare to the great shooters out there." I don't have the mag in front of me at the moment, so I can't get exact quotes. But EGM was simply commenting on the games, not on shooters overall.

As for calling a game easy when it allows credit feeding, didn't they say that Gradius V's difficulty was just right, i.e. difficult but fair, and tuned just so that you continually get better just by repeated playing? Yet you can "beat" Gradius V just by leaving the game on and hitting the X button to continue once in awhile.

I don't mind EGM. I'm not a huge fan, but I prefer them immensely to GamePro, which has been horrid since the N64 days, IMO. Neither come close to GamesTM, which unfortunately is terribly difficult to come by here in the U.S. They (GamesTM) have a genuine appreciation for the Oldschool, and they have a keen eye for Art in videogames as well, both of which seem lacking in American mags.

[professor ganson]

I don't mind EGM. I'm not a huge fan, but I prefer them immensely to GamePro, which has been horrid since the N64 days, IMO. Neither come close to GamesTM, which unfortunately is terribly difficult to come by here in the U.S. They (GamesTM) have a genuine appreciation for the Oldschool, and they have a keen eye for Art in videogames as well, both of which seem lacking in American mags.

I agree completely. I used to read pretty much all the gamer magazines before I found this forum and became (almost) entirely focused on shooters. My favorites were: GMR, XBN, EGM, and GI. None were as good as GamesTM, but that's very hard to find here (and it's expensive). Now GMR and XBN are gone, and I've watched EGM truly decline under Shoe (the present editor-in-chief). GI is still ok, but they don't have the sense of humor that EGM had at its best. PSM is really unpolished and not written for a thoughtful, adult reader. The official XBox and PS mags are a bit crap, especially the former. Those guys have no sense of humor, though with a change in editor things may improve. The problem with GamePro for me is that I can usually read everything that interests me in an issue in about 10 minutes. The issues are just too thin on content.

I'm thinking that I will let all my magazine subscriptions run out except GI, and I'm thinking about subscribing to Nintendo Power. NP has changed a bit in the last year, as it's trying to appeal to a mature audience. The only reason I'm interested is that I'm a bit of a Nintendo fan at heart. The only non-shooters I buy these days are either games by Nintendo or games for Nintendo systems. Strange, I know.

[BulletMagnet]

I had an NP subscription for years, I think since 1992 or so...I let it expire right before the GC came out though, since for much of the N64 era there simply wasn't much coming out that was of interest to me. Also, as with any "official" mag, I suppose, they would heap praises on most any Nintendo-published game, it became more and more blatant as time went on. Maybe it's different now, but I haven't seen an issue for some time now.

[Kiken]

I don't mind EGM. I'm not a huge fan, but I prefer them immensely to GamePro, which has been horrid since the N64 days, IMO. Neither come close to GamesTM, which unfortunately is terribly difficult to come by here in the U.S. They (GamesTM) have a genuine appreciation for the Oldschool, and they have a keen eye for Art in videogames as well, both of which seem lacking in American mags.

I agree completely. I used to read pretty much all the gamer magazines before I found this forum and became (almost) entirely focused on shooters. My favorites were: GMR, XBN, EGM, and GI. None were as good as GamesTM, but that's very hard to find here (and it's expensive). Now GMR and XBN are gone, and I've watched EGM truly decline under Shoe (the present editor-in-chief). GI is still ok, but they don't have the sense of humor that EGM had at its best. PSM is really unpolished and not written for a thoughtful, adult reader. The official XBox and PS mags are a bit crap, especially the former. Those guys have no sense of humor, though with a change in editor things may improve. The problem with GamePro for me is that I can usually read everything that interests me in an issue in about 10 minutes. The issues are just too thin on content.

I'm thinking that I will let all my magazine subscriptions run out except GI, and I'm thinking about subscribing to Nintendo Power. NP has changed a bit in the last year, as it's trying to appeal to a mature audience. The only reason I'm interested is that I'm a bit of a Nintendo fan at heart. The only non-shooters I buy these days are either games by Nintendo or games for Nintendo systems. Strange, I know.

I used to read a variety of magazines also, buying issues of anything if I saw that it had an article of interest... however, there were always 2 that I would buy without hesitation: DieHard GameFan and Gamer's Republic (after the initial GameFan split). Now I just stick to Play... Dave Halverson is actually becoming cynical.

Nintendo Power were always good at doing one thing, making videogame maps. Aside from that, I always found the magazine to be incredibly childish in its presentation. However, I do want to snag this month's issue since it has Shadow on the cover, and a snapshot of David Hasslehoff in the letters section. Those two things = greatness!

[gamingjustin]

Well, I really like EGM. It's thanks to them I get full coverage on what's popular and new. I do my own research to find what's "old-school" and fun, since no magazine I know of provides that. But, what EGM does cover, I think they do a damn good job of it. And also, EGM only "slams" bad games, not shooters. It just so happened that all three shmups mentioned this issue... were unimpressive. Games like Gradius V, R-Type Final, Ikaruga... They all got pretty good scores (especially Gradius V) because they were pretty good games.

Oh, and when they deemed shmups as one of the most unpopular genres... I chuckled, 'cuz it's true.

[DEL]

"All this for a game in which you press a single button...a lot."

Great quote from the experts at EGM!!



Thank God I gave up reading it over 10 years ago.

In fact, when I come to think of it....I can't even bring myself to buy a copy of ANY Western game magazine nowadays, not even for long Eurotunnel train journeys, when I know I'm gonna be bored. They contain almost nothing of interest to me.
Ironic really, when you consider that I would quote "Video Games" as one of my hobbies.

[Dandy J]

Protip: When you become more than just casually interested in a specific genre, reading magazine reviews about games from said genre is completely pointless.

For example, I play mostly fighting games. If a new fighting game comes out, I'll know whether or not I want to play it long before a port is announced. Chances are I'll have read someone's impressions from Japanese arcades, watched match videos, read up on strats, etc. Why would I read a review in a magazine?

That review is not for you, it's for people that know nothing about that game, apart from the what the review is telling them. In that case, they probably aren't hardcore into that genre, and if the game isn't good enough to get a good score from their trusted source, then they will more than likely not like the game either.

Every once in a while I'll think "Hey, I like this game, I'll see what so-and-so gave it". But I don't read the review to figure out whether I like a game or not.

[dave4shmups]

Memo to the shmups community, EGM may suck but has anyone actually taken a critical look at the games in question. If you did you would realize they suck George Michael's dick. EGM may be worthless but this only proves that once in a while they are on the money.

Oh, and for those thinking that Famitsu is some sort of holy piece of work, it's full of worthless scores every month. EVERY magazine gets paid off by advertisers so if you think that say famitsu gives honest reviews...

Umm, the new Shiki game isn't even OUT yet, and there are plenty of people who like Nanostray.

It's just a shame that there are, AFIK, no gaming magazines dedicated to retro gaming that are based here in the USA. Retro Gamer is great, but for someone who lives in the US, it costs $123/year to subscribe to.

[Thunder Force]

"the two least popular genres on the planet -- text adventures and overhead shoot-em-ups..."
~ EGM (2005)

Anyone looking for a new sig?

[professor ganson]

"the two least popular genres on the planet -- text adventures and overhead shoot-em-ups..."
~ EGM (2005)

Anyone looking for a new sig?

Great idea, thanks TF.

[Elixir]

Here what they say about Shiki: "Then how about a game that combines the two least popular genres on the planet-- text adventures and overhead shoot-em-ups-- into a single $65 package? The Shiki series has so much backstory behind its bulet-ridden hide that the creators actually made an adventure game based on it. And your choices in this adventure affect the difficulty and enemy setups of the shooting sections. When did shooter plots get so complicated? Beats us-- it's to the point where developers even sell a separate DVD with artwork, interviews, and original radio-drama bits. All this for a game in which you press a single button...a lot."

Least popular? Least popular is like, shooting games, or beyond. Somehow EGM have coherency issues with understanding that a seperate DVD with artwork would be appreciated by those who understand the game to it's full.

I'm not going to let it get to me. EGM was good, in the period of 95-00 but now it's just opinionated to hell. The whole "I am a chinese guy, I dress like ninja in black clothing, I make stealth review and rove you rong time" thing was fun but they've passed their expirary date. Like how they judged Resident Evil 4 for focusing more on graphics and not enough on gameplay.

Worst magazine on the planet now.

[pixelcorps]

I read EDGE mag and nothing else.. it may be expensive in the US but at least its not packed with ads and aimed at morons.

[Dartagnan1083]

I find EGM preferable to GI, who has one of the worst grading paradigms in all of history

Read about it

[Kiken]

I find EGM preferable to GI, who has one of the worst grading paradigms in all of history

Read about it

PSM rate games on the same basis... on what they think the public will enjoy... not what they themselves enjoy.

[dave4shmups]

"All this for a game in which you press a single button...a lot."

Great quote from the experts at EGM!!



Thank God I gave up reading it over 10 years ago.

In fact, when I come to think of it....I can't even bring myself to buy a copy of ANY Western game magazine nowadays, not even for long Eurotunnel train journeys, when I know I'm gonna be bored. They contain almost nothing of interest to me.
Ironic really, when you consider that I would quote "Video Games" as one of my hobbies.

Hey, maybe the EGM people could come do reviews on this site! Like, "I'd rather try shaving with a chainsaw then play this game."

[druuna]

EGM should be criticised.
here's the verdict: they suck. They can't help it that they got their heads in EA's asses. fuck 'm

Best post for 2005 on shmups forum?
I think it's a candidate for the Top10...Thx D

[Alske]

The comment about pressing one button a lot, struck me as referring to the act of paging through the reams of text that playing a Japanese adventure game entails.

[Neon]

I don't blame them really. All 3 are poor at best, or almost certainly so.

'Mashing one button over and over' is pretty unfair though. But you can't expect fair from these people, we should all expect this by now.

[Dylan1CC]

I particularly enjoyed this little nugget, from "Shoe's" review of Nanostray:

"The difference maker (in 2D shooters) is the gimmicks, like the weapon attachments in the R-Type series or the black/white dynamic in Ikaruga (GC). Without 'em, who cares?"

ahhhh....good times.

Ha, wow. That right there is 10 X worse than the slight in the Shiki impression. How about "FMV in the FF games, without 'em, who cares?"

[professor ganson]

I particularly enjoyed this little nugget, from "Shoe's" review of Nanostray:

"The difference maker (in 2D shooters) is the gimmicks, like the weapon attachments in the R-Type series or the black/white dynamic in Ikaruga (GC). Without 'em, who cares?"

ahhhh....good times.

Ha, wow. That right there is 10 X worse than the slight in the Shiki impression. How about "FMV in the FF games, without 'em, who cares?"

Yeah, that quote from Shoe is unbelievable. Maybe I should add it to my signature.

[sethsez]

It was a snide way of saying that a game based on absolutely nothing but action is kind of a ridiculous basis for an adventure game. And it's a sentiment I agree with. The plot may be okay for a shooter, but it sure as hell isn't enough to sustain a full game by itself (in my opinion).

As for Nanostray, I love the game, but some people right here at shmups.com hated it, or thought it was heavily flawed. If they're allowed to think it's a mediocre product, EGM is as well. Keep in mind that as someone already pointed out, they gave good reviews to Ikaruga, Gradius V and R-Type Final. The games they gave bad reviews to are, more often than not, the same games that people here play for a couple weeks and then stop talking about because there are better ones out there.

In a way, this reminds me of a conversation over at adventuregamers.com, where people bitched for over 100 pages about a PC Gamer review that gave The Moment of Silence a very low score. The review said that the game was just the same old thing, with horrible translation issues, a myriad of bugs and a plot that was more interesting in theory than in reality. Now, people at that site complained for god knows how long about how stupid mainstream publications like PC Gamer just don't get their genre, and how unfair it was to knock it for stuff like that when the overall game was still fun (mind you, they hadn't played it yet). The outrage was... well, similar to the reactions to EGM here.

Then people played it.

At first, they loved it. But slowly, the complaints trickled in. The translation was awful. The bugs were getting to people. The story was a good idea, but could have been executed better. And overall, it really wasn't much fun.

Of course, nobody actually said "hey, maybe PC Gamer was right." No, people grew to hate the game, but they still disagreed with PC Gamer's review, even if they agreed with every individual point in it, just because PC Gamer was the enemy.

The Sigma Star Saga blurb says that it's kinda fun overall, but the shooting sections are way too easy. Now, be outraged all you want, but when the actual game comes out, I'm willing to bet a lot of people here will express the exact same opinions. The Nanostray reviews claim that the game is just a clone of previous games that had done it better. Once again, people here have said the same thing. But it's a mainstream magazine, so by god, they must be wrong.

Finally, they say shmups are hugely unpopular. What's wrong with this statement? With the exception of a couple, most shmup-devoted companies have either died off or are in financial trouble. And although they do have a devoted niche following, they still don't sell at the numbers of most other genres, overall. Sad, but true.

[Dylan1CC]

I particularly enjoyed this little nugget, from "Shoe's" review of Nanostray:

"The difference maker (in 2D shooters) is the gimmicks, like the weapon attachments in the R-Type series or the black/white dynamic in Ikaruga (GC). Without 'em, who cares?"

ahhhh....good times.

Ha, wow. That right there is 10 X worse than the slight in the Shiki impression. How about "FMV in the FF games, without 'em, who cares?"

Yeah, that quote from Shoe is unbelievable. Maybe I should make it my signature.

The thing is, obviously it's true that without an interesting gameplay mechanic they'd be dull. R-TYPE without the option system would be bland and make the pattern memorization all the more painful and not in the good way. However, it boils down to the fact that Shoe is a poor writer and thinks he is being a "cool" irreverant smartass when he says "no gimmick = no legitimacy." Just another american gaming magazine writer trying to be hip.

What game would be enjoyable without the gameplay mechanic that makes it unique? It's a non-point. Again, this is a classic case of a western gaming magazine editor talking a generic half truth and spinning it just so he can sound like a smug smartass for "hip" editorial tone which in turn makes it sound like he is slamming the entire genre.

Oh well, I guess I could also say "Madden without 3D models and FF without choreographed FMV cut scenes...without 'em, who cares?"

I will also add that he has got a whole mess 'o crow to eat after his editorial from a spring issue where he flat out said it was almost inevitable that PSP would drown out the DS solely on Sony's "mainstream appeal." The next month someone wrote in asking if maybe he was jumping the gun a bit and he groused at the letter writer of course.

Regardless of the DS and PSP's respective lineups which are both sagging right now, the DS is still beating the PSP. EGM tea bagged us on the system.

Anyways, don't wanna get too OT.

[sethsez]

Oh well, I guess I could also say "Madden without 3D models and FF without choreographed FMV cut scenes...without 'em, who cares?"

Aesthetics versus central gameplay mechanics. Not a valid comparison.