Which version of Futari should I play?

[n0rtygames]

What's wrong with it? The stupid blue/green counter crap that serves as the basis for the awful score system, which, in turn, ensures that there's no fun to be had at all in the first two stages. The excessive slowdown that the game is balanced around. The difficulty curve that puts the hardest section of the game in stage 3.

Weird, I really like it's scoring system with the shot switching being reduced to every 3k in BL.. I find if you're playing for score this score system leads you in to taking more risks. Maniac is the better system. Original is just easier for a beginner to understand and serves as an entry in to competitive play. No chains, no strict timing, yet some simple risk/reward mechanics to observe. But yes, stage 3 is everyones nemesis.

Gotta admit tho, I played futari before mushi and the slowdown made me go 'WTF have I bought' for a while... Eventually I learned to love it..

You're clearly just being blasphemous and I sense one day you will rejoice in saving the humans from.... Toxic levitation energy.... >.<

[Obscura]

I still don't understand why people think BL original is easy.

Because it only took me a few tried to clear. BL maniac also only took me a handful of attempts, meanwhile 1.5 maniac took me years of on and off play to 1CC with a half decent score. 1.5 is definitely harder to clear, although I can't speak for world record level scores.

I've spent way too much time with this pile of shit, trying to find something redeeming in it. It's a crap game- like almost all Cave post-Ketsui.

As one of those people who can't clear BL Original...

I can understand being frustrated with the sporadic slowdown and stage 3. I was certainly stuck with maniac 1.5 for a long time before having a 1CC in sight. I'm not sure if calling it a pile of shit is justified simply because the game is beyond your ability though. I'm also not too keen on original's shot switching mechanics, but maniac mode is completely different and done extremely well.

I'm not calling it a pile of shit because it's beyond my ability; Dragon Blaze and Strikers 1999 rape me far harder than Futari, and yet I still enjoy both of those games- particularly DB.

I'm calling it a piece of shit because it simply isn't any fun to play and is filled with questionable at best design decisions.

[chempop]

Let's argue about Futari's difficulty some more...
...where is Gus and Trouserpants?

[AntiFritz]

Well gus can't post in this subforum, and havn't seen trouserpants much lately...

[BareKnuckleRoo]

easier boss fights.

Uh, were you not paying attention to how fast bosses die in BL?

The stages aren't significantly more crowded than 1.5, especially not as Reco whose shot causes massive slowdown everywhere and clears the screen. Unless you don't know how to rhythmically tap dodge (which trivializes things as a lot of stuff is aimed), clearing BL Original is definitely easier.

BL Original is only arguably harder than 1.5 if you're seriously aiming to score (which is probably a bad idea if you can't clear it), and even then that's only in the stages where the maxed out stage counter jumps up the speed. And with the massively improved shot types, even with the rank increase it's not unreasonably difficult compared to 1.5.

The difficulty curve that puts the hardest section of the game in stage 3.

oh god not this again

you're probably still using MAME which doesn't have the slowdown properly emulated, lol

Also, I have to agree with mesh control's response of "none of them". Futari sucks.

i'm moving

[Special World]

I think Black Label Original is great, but I can see how somebody would dislike it. Having to stay on top of enemies all the time can be kind of stupid, and the shot switching is pointless. But MFBL Maniac/God feels like a pure refinement of Cave's chaining systems. It's constantly rewarding and doesn't require you to be in a specific place at all times. I find I like it for many of the same reasons I like Ketsui's scoring.

And Futari Black Label was my first ever 1CC, so I very much doubt it's harder than anything else besides Deathsmiles/Deathsmiles 2.

[Obscura]

easier boss fights.

Uh, were you not paying attention to how fast bosses die in BL?

Who cares about wall-clock time of boss death? With 1.5 Abnormal Palm, you see fewer patterns, the patterns are slower, and there's less overlap.

The stages aren't significantly more crowded than 1.5, especially not as Reco whose shot causes massive slowdown everywhere and clears the screen. Unless you don't know how to rhythmically tap dodge (which trivializes things as a lot of stuff is aimed), clearing BL Original is definitely easier.

What? The stages are much more crowded in BL. There's constant additional popcorn waves, and about twice the number of medium sized enemies.

you're probably still using MAME which doesn't have the slowdown properly emulated, lol

Setting blitter to 61% gives you, if anything, more than correct slowdown. It's still much harder than DOJ.

[burgerkingdiamond]

1.5 Original is the shit. Fast bullets, not very dense patterns and a simple scoring system. My favorite STG ever.

[n0rtygames]

It's still much harder than DOJ.

I'm sorry... did you just say that Futari Black Label original was in fact harder than DaiOuJou?

You're talking about the original DOJ right, not DOJ:BL? Either way, I can't believe that you think Futari is harder than DOJ.

DOJ is basically a rapist. Futari is just a mild pervert in comparison.

[Obscura]

It's still much harder than DOJ.

I'm sorry... did you just say that Futari Black Label original was in fact harder than DaiOuJou?

You're talking about the original DOJ right, not DOJ:BL? Either way, I can't believe that you think Futari is harder than DOJ.

DOJ is basically a rapist. Futari is just a mild pervert in comparison.

I am referring to DOJBL, which is the only version of DOJ I've played.

Futari is much harder. I can consistently hit stage 5 in DOJ, and have made it to the stage 5 boss with multiple lives more than once. Futari? There's not a single version where I've ever made it to Larsa without credit feeding, and if I'm lucky, I might make stage 5 about once in ten tries.

[KAI]

In Scoring terms both DOJ ver. rape Futari.

[Obscura]

Nah, DOJ is easier to score, too.

I can get both extends in DOJ by the end of stage 2, and on a good run, can end with over 100 mil. It's rare I get even the first extend in Futari BL.

[To Far Away Times]

There is no way that Futari BL is harder than DOJ.

Futari BL was one of the first shmups I ever beat and I was a newbie at the time. I usually recommend it as a good beginner game, right after Deathsmiles.

Futari 1.5 is a huge jump. It doesn't seem that much harder at first, but the dreaded stage 3 "wall" is much more pronounced and your weaker shot types make it harder to sweep the stages. I'd say Futari 1.5 doesn't always get as much credit as it should for being a hard game, I'd say it's at least average in difficulty, probably somewhere above average.

DOJ:BL is definitely one of the hardest shmups I've ever played. It took me 60+ hours and I basically had to use a heavily memorized route combined with some really tough dodging, some carefully planned bomb/hyper usage, and more than a little luck to beat it.

[cstle]

Is Obscura still doing these bizarre rants on Futari based on what he's played with the shitty SH3 emulation in MAME months later?

jesus. It's not the game, it's you (and your bad inaccurate emulator.) It shouldn't take months to figure that out when it's almost universally accepted that BL Original is rather easy to clear.

[sirmax]

Yeah, MSFBL Original is easy. If I can clear it by playing like a panicked girl on coke, anyone can.

[shmuppyLove]

Ok I'm feeling good about going for the BL Original clear then.

It's going to be this or DeathSmiles ...

[Eaglet]

God Mode is what it's all about.

[moh]

Ok I'm feeling good about going for the BL Original clear then.

It's going to be this or DeathSmiles ...

deathsmiles wont even challenge you.

its a boring clear.

[Special World]

Ok I'm feeling good about going for the BL Original clear then.

It's going to be this or DeathSmiles ...

deathsmiles wont even challenge you.

its a boring clear.

It's tough if you're going for a max rank clear.

1-2-3 is pretty easy though, yeah.

[KAI]

Pinksweets~

[chempop]

deathsmiles wont even challenge you.

its a boring clear.

Once you play at all rank-3+canyon, it get s tricky by the end, certainly a satisfying clear I'd say.

Pinksweets~

How many non-japanese do you think have cleared this without infinite lives. I bet only a couple at best. I was always amazed that EOJ really seemed to master the game with every character.

[Cuilan]

deathsmiles wont even challenge you.

its a boring clear.

Sure, if you avoid triggering death mode, and avoid the canyon. And if you're avoiding both of those things, you aren't playing the game seriously.

[Muchi Muchi Spork]

deathsmiles wont even challenge you.

its a boring clear.

Once you play at all rank-3+canyon, it get s tricky by the end, certainly a satisfying clear I'd say.

Pinksweets~

How many non-japanese do you think have cleared this without infinite lives. I bet only a couple at best. I was always amazed that EOJ really seemed to master the game with every character.

Are you sure he beat the pcb without using the infinite lives? I never read that. Only with the trick.

[chempop]

I'm not positive but I think I remember reading that he said triggering Infinite Lives was about as hard to do as clearing without because you can keep rank low, where as triggering Infinite Lives required skyrocketing the rank early. Not sure though.

[KAI]

That's not true, you can trigger the infinite lives trick by playing like a fag too.

[mesh control]

In before EBarrett

[Muchi Muchi Spork]

It doesn't require skyrocketing the rank but that is what people used to believe.

Yes I'm sure E Barrett will drop in to let us all know yet again how much he hates the infinite lives trick.

[Obscura]

There is no way that Futari BL is harder than DOJ.

Futari BL was one of the first shmups I ever beat and I was a newbie at the time. I usually recommend it as a good beginner game, right after Deathsmiles.

Sorry, but the difficulty gap between Futari BL and Deathsmiles is a gaping chasm.

Futari 1.5 is a huge jump. It doesn't seem that much harder at first, but the dreaded stage 3 "wall" is much more pronounced and your weaker shot types make it harder to sweep the stages. I'd say Futari 1.5 doesn't always get as much credit as it should for being a hard game, I'd say it's at least average in difficulty, probably somewhere above average.

Today on the shmups forums: taking a difficult section, and adding more waves of popcorn to it, makes it easier!

DOJ:BL is definitely one of the hardest shmups I've ever played. It took me 60+ hours and I basically had to use a heavily memorized route combined with some really tough dodging, some carefully planned bomb/hyper usage, and more than a little luck to beat it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvlKU2h2 ... e=youtu.be

Three runs that show just how fucking hard BL is for me- someone who can consistently hit stage 5 of DOJBL. The third one, starting at about 25:30 is pretty much the run of a lifetime for me, and even with absurd amounts of luck, I barely make a dent in stage 5 (even making stage 5 is super-rare for me).

I do not understand how anyone can call this game easy and call any other Cave other than Ibara, Pink Sweets, and maybe Dangun Feveron even remotely challenging.

[Special World]

If you find Futari Black Label so difficult, I can only imagine it's because you can't deal with the increased shot speeds that rank brings to Black Label Original. Maybe try Maniac mode. I can beat Black Label Original, and I rarely ever reach stage 4 in DOJ or Ketsui.

Then again, if you are playing in MAME, that's a problem.

[cstle]

Today on the shmups forums: taking a difficult section, and adding more waves of popcorn to it, makes it easier!

It does, yes, because it adds much more slowdown, which your busted MAME build doesn't replicate correctly. Not that hard to figure out.