Dances with taxes

[BulletMagnet]

Let's leave the rampant hypocrisy of "conservatives" attempting to change and corrupt an institution that's been working well since Flash Gordan was racing dinosaurs back on Pluto as an aside.

I've always found it fascinating how the right continually insists on commissions on top of safeguards on top of audits to 100 percent insure against even the slightest, most remote possibility of something government-related not being completely transparent (and then inevitably rail on about how much money the government wastes on bureaucracy), but recoils in horror whenever someone suggests that trillion-dollar (and taxpayer-insured, officially or not) investment banks submit to inquiries regarding their accounting practices and overall solvency, or that corporations tell us when they've genetically modified our food.

[Ex-Cyber]

I really don't see how hard it is to show an ID when voting.

I recommend that you consult your metaphorical optometrist. You appear to be metaphorically myopic.

You need an ID for anything nowadays, which to be honest it is fine with me.

For suitably privileged definitions of "anything", that might be true. If you need photo ID to room with a friend or family member and ride the bus to your shitty token-interval-above-minimum-wage job, you should probably find new friends.

I've always found it fascinating how the right continually insists on commissions on top of safeguards on top of audits to 100 percent insure against even the slightest, most remote possibility of something government-related not being completely transparent (and then inevitably rail on about how much money the government wastes on bureaucracy), but recoils in horror whenever someone suggests that trillion-dollar (and taxpayer-insured, officially or not) investment banks submit to inquiries regarding their accounting practices and overall solvency, or that corporations tell us when they've genetically modified our food.

But, see, the market perfectly, unambiguously, and instantaneously decides how much transparency is required of transnational corporations, therefore government intervention in same would be an unconscionable distortion. That's because The Government magically operates from outside the market, much like God magically operates from outside the universe. Wait; the market is supposed to be God, and The Government is supposed to be Satan, and now my metaphor is hopelessly confused. Shit.

[greg]

Ron Paul needs to just make his own party. I haven't really paid much attention to him until recently, but to me, he makes far more sense than either conservatives or liberals. He'll never get a Republican nomination. The Libertarian Party doesn't seem to go very far in any election unfortunately, but I think Paul is high-profile enough to maybe pull something off, and be more successful than Ross Perot ever was in the '90s with a third party.

Also, both Romney and Obama are full of crap when they talk about cutting spending (especially Obama). Here's why.

[BryanM]

That's a great rant by a 13 year old angry at men with guns stealing his money to give him a job.

Doesn't change the fact that the outlay for 2013 will be hundreds of billions lower.

[GaijinPunch]

I really don't see how hard it is to show an ID when voting. You need an ID for anything nowadays, which to be honest it is fine with me.

No you don't. We know you think poverty is a disease, but plenty of people don't have or need a photo ID, and they're generally on the bottom rung of the ladder.

[Ex-Cyber]

Also, both Romney and Obama are full of crap when they talk about cutting spending (especially Obama). Here's why.

For political purposes, that's a pretty standard definition of "cutting spending". It's counterintuitive, but it actually makes some sense to look at it that way when a lot of programs/agencies have to plan expansions, reorganizations, projects etc. across multiple yearly budgets.

However, that doesn't excuse the candidates/campaigns using this method while also counting programs already scheduled to end as "cuts". IIRC, Obama's campaign did this recently.

[Ed Oscuro]

However, that doesn't excuse the candidates/campaigns using this method while also counting programs already scheduled to end as "cuts". IIRC, Obama's campaign did this recently.

I'd much rather have even that on the table to be fact-checked, than go the Romney route and just say "believe in me, I'll fix the deficit (while keeping spending where I want it) without raising taxes."

[Domino]

No you don't. We know you think poverty is a disease, but plenty of people don't have or need a photo ID, and they're generally on the bottom rung of the ladder.

Well go have fun with that. Here in Florida there are more places where they are requiring IDs (looking at apartments, buying certain items at supermarkets, job hiring, using a credit/debit card, and so much more).

Saying can't get a photo ID because you are poor is a fucking excuse.

[mesh control]

http://www.romneytaxplan.com/

[trap15]

Holy shit hahah that's magical

[DragonInstall]

No you don't. We know you think poverty is a disease, but plenty of people don't have or need a photo ID, and they're generally on the bottom rung of the ladder.

Well go have fun with that. Here in Florida there are more places where they are requiring IDs (looking at apartments, buying certain items at supermarkets, job hiring, using a credit/debit card, and so much more).

Saying can't get a photo ID because you are poor is a fucking excuse.

That's how I feel about this. Photo ID is required in many aspects, to not have one is very strange. I've never met one person in my entire life who didn't have some kind of photo ID, unless they were illegal(My business deals with many illegals).

I agree that photo ID should not be enforced this election, since it's such a short notice, but after I think it should be. To say that poor people have no means to get one, really does sound like an excuse.

[Ed Oscuro]

No you don't. We know you think poverty is a disease, but plenty of people don't have or need a photo ID, and they're generally on the bottom rung of the ladder.

Well go have fun with that. Here in Florida there are more places where they are requiring IDs (looking at apartments, buying certain items at supermarkets, job hiring, using a credit/debit card, and so much more).

Saying can't get a photo ID because you are poor is a fucking excuse.

I want to live in Florida now

Enjoy your Photo ID police state, srsly

[Ex-Cyber]

To say that poor people have no means to get one, really does sound like an excuse.

The basic problem is not "no means to get one", it's that it's a disproportionately applied cost, and disproportionately applied to those least able to afford it. For people who already have one for "everything" that requires it, the additional cost to vote is practically zero. For people who don't, it's a substantial cost in effort and possibly money (if they e.g. need to get a new certified copies of identity-establishing documents like birth certificates or the closest ID-issuing office is a long distance away from where they live/work) between them and voting. It's akin to having a poll tax for which homeowners have to pay 50 cents while renters and homeless have to pay 50 dollars.

[Ed Oscuro]

And, re: "The Government will pay for your ID" argument

Shit costs money (funny thing for some Republican state Governors to find money for). Strange argument from the typically anti-tax, anti-citizen tracking crowd.

Again, it's in the damn Constitution (24th Amendment) that you can't have poll taxes, and buying IDs is considered a variant of the poll tax.

[Domino]

Again, it's in the damn Constitution (24th Amendment) that you can't have poll taxes, and buying IDs is considered a variant of the poll tax.

And here's the deal, I don't consider it a tax. Considering that it could be a safety hazard without one (hard to identity yourself to other people without it).

I mean let me put it this way, when going to places where they sale alcohol they want to see ID upfront. No ID = you get kicked out of the store and no sale of alcohol. Plenty of private companies are requested IDs for a safety measure.

The basic problem is not "no means to get one", it's that it's a disproportionately applied cost, and disproportionately applied to those least able to afford it. For people who already have one for "everything" that requires it, the additional cost to vote is practically zero. For people who don't, it's a substantial cost in effort and possibly money (if they e.g. need to get a new certified copies of identity-establishing documents like birth certificates or the closest ID-issuing office is a long distance away from where they live/work) between them and voting. It's akin to having a poll tax for which homeowners have to pay 50 cents while renters and homeless have to pay 50 dollars.

And to be honest if you didn't live without the ID for years then you should pay the $50 cost and whatever it takes to get it.

[GaijinPunch]

And here's the deal, I don't consider it a tax. Considering that it could be a safety hazard without one (hard to identity yourself to other people without it).

I mean let me put it this way, when going to places where they sale alcohol they want to see ID upfront. No ID = you get kicked out of the store and no sale of alcohol. Plenty of private companies are requested IDs for a safety measure.

So why the fuck are righties all about "Govt. can't tell me what to do..." except have a photo ID?

To me it's amazingly hard to believe and I pity these people on both sides of the political fence, but not everyone drinks. Not everyone needs a photo ID. I'll agree, I can't imagine life without one. Total pain in the ass. However, I also don't tell people how to live their lives... that's why I don't see myself ever voting Republican. Not saying it won't happen, but it's clearly the more controlling/up on high horse choice every 4 years. Having said that I'm all for gay rights, and having a gay VP is a pretty big start, so that's definitely a +1 for the Romney camp.

[CMoon]

Having said that I'm all for gay rights, and having a gay VP is a pretty big start, so that's definitely a +1 for the Romney camp.

LOL

[Ed Oscuro]

Again, it's in the damn Constitution (24th Amendment) that you can't have poll taxes, and buying IDs is considered a variant of the poll tax.

And here's the deal, I don't consider it a tax.

Does the Constitution depend on what you think? Do poor people care what you think? Should truth be decided by what you think? No. You Lose, Good Day, Sir!

Having said that I'm all for gay rights, and having a gay VP is a pretty big start, so that's definitely a +1 for the Romney camp.

LOL

JAWSOME

[BulletMagnet]

So why the fuck are righties all about "Govt. can't tell me what to do..." except have a photo ID?

Or marry someone of the same gender....or have an abortion...or deface a flag...or use medical marijuana...or say "treasonous" things about the President (Republican only)...

[GaijinPunch]

So why the fuck are righties all about "Govt. can't tell me what to do..." except have a photo ID?

Or marry someone of the same gender....or have an abortion...or deface a flag...or use medical marijuana...

Indeed. I was going to make a Gene Wilder meme about it but my adult ADD stopped kicking into over drive and I got back to work.

[lawnspic]

I have no faith in government because i have no faith in humanity

[GaijinPunch]

I have no faith in government because i have no faith in humanity

Holy shit! Where have you been? Was actually thinking about you the other day... in a totally non-romantic way.

[lawnspic]

I have no faith in government because i have no faith in humanity

Holy shit! Where have you been? Was actually thinking about you the other day... in a totally non-romantic way.

Same here haha, just working and not playing games as much as i should. Your son must be huge now i bet.

[GaijinPunch]

Yep, he's big. 5.5. I still gotta carry him sometimes though.