Third Person Action Game thread (DMC, NG, etc.)

[sjewkestheloon]

I would say that dmc 3 and bayonetta are equal in quality to be honest. Both of them have their issues but I can mostly overlook them.

As for 'bayonetta bashing' to be honest I think most of it is valid criticism that most people will point out after trying to platinum the levels. As for difficulty the dmc games are a lot harder than bayonetta if you take advantage of everything available but they make everything so customisable that you can give yourself a serious challenge. Gaze of despair and nsic will fuck you.

[iconoclast]

Most of the boss fights in NG2 are not good, there's no defense for them. Genshin is excellent, and Elizebet, Zedonious, and Alexei are decent. The rest are either mediocre or terrible (not counting the mini-boss type enemies like the Rasetsu and blind giants, those are fine). You can spam Elizebet, Zedonious, and Alexei if you're using the really overpowered moves like 360Y with the Tonfa or BotA (or doing the VF infinite combo), but if you try to fight them without exploits on the higher difficulties, you definitely need to know how to counter their patterns. They still aren't great, but good enough.

You only really get grabbed by a suicide bomb if you're not paying attention, but there are so many enemies on Mentor and MN that it's easy to lose track of the one guy who's limping around until you land right next to him and get instagibbed. The mages are especially sneaky, since once they lose an arm, they'll try to go underground and pop up right below you for a kamikaze. I've had many rage-inducing survival runs ended by those fuckers.

[Op Intensify]

I wasn't interested enough to give NG2 a second playthrough on Mentor, so it's probably much more of a threat there.

Yeah, the Genshin fights definitely come the closest to matching Murai/Doku from NGB. He's still more vulnerable to spamming, though. Dagra Dai gave me the most trouble of NG2's bosses, and you can chew him up fast with lots of aerial + Y with the scythe. For the slower normal enemies, I've found defensive strategies with Windmill Shuriken UTs to be very cheap.

One thing I wasn't too fond of in NG1 that they thankfully toned down in the sequel were all the bosses that required you to use the bow. That shit got tiresome fast, and there really was no reason to have three separate arrow types. Letting you shoot the bow while jumping was one of Sigma's few actual improvements.

[Ed Oscuro]

How is Dragon's Dogma? I saw it mentioned in connection with a possible PC port (given Capcom's MT framework), at the Steam User Forum's Dark Souls subforum, of course.

[sjewkestheloon]

Dragon's Dogma is a lot of fun for the first playthrough but there are too many flaws keeping it from becoming a great game. The game starts out fairly challenging and dishes out bosses at a reasonable clip but after level 30 the challenge starts to drop other than some nasty boss spikes and certain bits of post game. When you complete the game you can play NG+ but there is no difficulty change or enemy alteration at all making the game a chore. You only get one save spot so you have to delete your character to start a new one. The idea is that each character can switch to any class at any point, but they failed to realise that if you can steamroll everything, what's the point?

Good for one playthrough and then back to the shop.

[evil_ash_xero]

They're making a Dragon's Dogma 2. Hopefully they'll fix those problems.

[CMoon]

Really liked the idea of Dragon's Dogma and hope they make a sequel, but all the problems mentioned above are true. Also, no reason not to have a deeper move set and more potential for combos. Also needs a richer landscape replete with dungeons.

[sjewkestheloon]

Some random enemy placements would have helped too. If the enemies were hard like in the Souls games it would be different but when they are cannon fodder the could at least have the courtesy to be unpredictable cannon fodder.

[CMoon]

It's more than just difficulty--its an idea in Dragon's Dogma that you're going to get hit by enemies. It isn't worth developing a strategy to avoid taking damage (though the damage reflection off shields is rather nice), but rather to have enough dps to steamroll the enemies. This is exactly the opposite of the Souls games, which like a shmup involves developing a strategy to not get hit at all.

Even though I really enjoyed DD, it does need more danger and a better way to deal with hordes of enemies than just wading in and mashing. Admittedly, some of the classes were actually a lot better at having a game plan than others, but none of them take it to the level of the Souls games, or even something like the combat engine in the Arkham games where you actually could fight 50 people without getting hit.

Of course now we're looking at conflicting ideas because DD is ultimately about having those 3 other people in your group, and if you raise that difficulty or add a bunch of tools that allow you to play the game in a smarter manner, your 3 companions are probably still going to play like they've got bricks for brains.

[iconoclast]

I just came across this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5LB9RE_cvU&feature=plcp

It's a montage of some high-level play in DMC 3 & 4, NG2, and Bayonetta. It's nicely edited and fun to watch. Shows what makes these games so great.

[BIL]

DMC1 and Shinobi (2002, NTSCU ver) are some of my favourite games ever. The former was the first to truly bring 2D action's precision and sense of impact into full 3D, and it's still a blast today. The latter could've used either shorter levels or more interesting ones, but its speedkill to survive system is a gem. I specify the US version because after scrubby reviewers got assraped by it the later Asian and European versions removed the highest difficulty tier, which was the only one where you either play skillfully or get eaten alive by Akujiki. Fuck poor players.

Haven't gotten around to God Hand, Bayonetta or NGB/II but I made sure to pick them up for later. Annoyingly a lot of the stuff from the genre post-DMC that I have played has been sugary dreck (PS2 Castlevanias and Nano Breaker come to mind).

[Drum]

I just came across this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5LB9RE_cvU&feature=plcp

Three of these things belong together
Three of these things are kind of the same
Can you guess which one of these doesn't belong here?
Now it's time to play our game (time to play our game).

[sjewkestheloon]

You are quite right cmoon, it is indeed the fact that you can't avoid getting hit realistically that makes dragon's dogma a lesser game. I feel these way about shmups with a life bar. It is an excuse for lazy design.

Playing ng sigma at the moment and I am quietly impressed with the port, although I would not be happy to replace my copy of black with it. I like the mixes of the stages, the new enemies so far and the fact that there is a better flow between then encounters.

The Rachel level was ok but she is a bit sluggish. I think I will need some practice to get decent with her.

[Austin]

The Devil May Cry series is awesome (minus part 2). Spent a lot of time playing those, especially parts 1 and 4. I've been meaning to get around to picking up the HD collection. Anyone try it yet?

Shinobi on the PS2 was pretty cool. Some of the stages were pretty rough though and I never finished it. Likewise with Nightshade, although I think that game was even more challenging. I remember the later requiring extreme levels of endurance, with instant-death scenarios all over the place. The moving stages where you were jumping from truck to truck, or boat to boat, were especially rough.

Ninja Gaiden on the XBOX--I got into it about five years late, but I finally did, and I finished it. It's a masterpiece, for sure. I've yet to get Black, but one of these days I'll get around to it. I've also generally heard bad things about Ninja Gaiden 2, so I've been putting off trying it out. From reading this thread though, I might have to give it a shot. It doesn't sound as bad as some people have made it out to be.

Otogi on the XBOX was fun for the time. Another one I've been meaning to revisit, as well as pick up the sequel I never tried. I do recall getting to the end of the original, but it's been seven or eight years or so and don't recall if I managed to beat the final boss or not (I remember having a hell of a time at him).

I've got Bayonetta on the shelf, but I haven't played it. I've heard great things about it, and the footage I've seen looks great.

One I thoroughly enjoyed that roughly falls into the genre is the 2010 Splatterhouse remake. It was bashed pretty badly, and yeah, it has its rough spots and starts off poorly, but it was awesome once I really got a handle on it. I finished it three or four times, and for one reason or another, that's something I just don't do with games this gen. It was pretty damn fun.

[sjewkestheloon]

The DMC HD Collection is really good, I highly recommend it as a package. The graphics are nicely touched up with the exception of the cutscenes and menu screen but the speed is spot on and everything is clean. Any flaws, ie the camera in 1, are carried over into the ports unfortunately, but you can't have everything.

Oh and DMC 2 is still shit unfortunately.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Gotta try out DMC2 one of these days as I've yet to play a last-gen Capcom game I wouldn't enjoy. Shinobi also had some pretty bad reputation...

[NTSC-J]

Berserk for PS2 is pretty damn good if you're a fan of the manga/anime (and not bad if you're not). The DC game is also decent, but doesn't let you relive classic scenes from the series like the PS2 game.

I'm also a big fan of the Earth Defense Force series which is much better than the sum of its parts.

[iconoclast]

EDF is great. Before Vanquish came out, 2017 was my favorite TPS this gen. I just hope that EDF4 is a console game.

[Ed Oscuro]

I just hope that EDF4 is a console game.

I hope EDF4 is a PC game! Also a console game would be good too. "Get the EDF to the people" will be my motto.

Interesting this one was brought up though - I was under the impression that the EDF series was really quite niche, but the people who like it really like it.

[sjewkestheloon]

EDF is brilliant, at least GDF and EDF 2017 are anyway. I liked Insect Armageddon enough to finish at on Inferno but I sold it soon after due to the limits on enemies. All I want is another game with content along the lines of those two titles but with online multiplayer options.

[Op Intensify]

You guys might want to know that EDF3/2017 is getting a Vita port with new content, including the return of Pale Wing.

[mrsmiley381]

One I thoroughly enjoyed that roughly falls into the genre is the 2010 Splatterhouse remake. It was bashed pretty badly, and yeah, it has its rough spots and starts off poorly, but it was awesome once I really got a handle on it. I finished it three or four times, and for one reason or another, that's something I just don't do with games this gen. It was pretty damn fun.

I don't know why everyone bashed it so much. It even had throwbacks in it as suggested by the guy who ran West Mansion, the only Splatterhouse fan site ever. Then Namco dropped it, didn't give a shit, and we got a cliffhanger ending. I need to finish my hard mode run. I do recall some of those tiny enemies eating way too much health.

So we're all getting Anarchy Reigns, right? I mean, aside from you folks that got Max Anarchy. I had a group willing to import it but then it fell apart. At least now you can preorder it for a cool thirty bones from Amazon.

[Op Intensify]

So we're all getting Anarchy Reigns, right?

I've extensively played the demo and I can't recommend it. Underneath the stylistic allure, it's Call of Duty: Dynasty Warriors, with cheap stage hazards and items that make Smash Bros. Brawl on default settings seem balanced. All the characters pretty much play the same.

You're probably better off with the amazing OST.

[Moniker]

So while we're talking, is DMC3 Special Edition worth picking up if you've already played the standard quite a bit? I know it's the version in the HD collection...

[Op Intensify]

It's got a sidestory with playable Vergil and a new boss fight with Jester. The difficulty modes are moved around a bit, but the same ones are present. There's also some new extra videos and costumes to unlock (or you could use the code like a sane person). The main game with Dante isn't changed at all, aside from the Jester fight.

If those are worth it to you, then by all means go ahead. I think Vergil's limited moveset gets old fast, though.

[shmuppyLove]

The Red Star is the bomb, big up to Zaarock for pointing it out.

[njiska]

The Red Star is the bomb, big up to Zaarock for pointing it out.

The Red Star is awesome. Still have a copy of the unreleased Xbox version on my HDD. Legitimately have the PS2 version.

[CMoon]

Shit, it sucks that I lost virtually all my ps2 collection when I moved. I really enjoyed Red Star, but I don't think enough to buy it again.

Spent a couple hours today messing around with Ninja Gaiden Sigma. Sorry, I don't have an Xbox, but even considering how much some of you consider NGS to be gimped, it is still such an incredible game. Not perfect, but one hell of an adrenaline rush when you know what you are doing (I sort of know what I am doing.)

[Op Intensify]

Sigma isn't so much gimped, as it takes away as much stuff as it adds.

The new enemies, expanded mission mode, playable Rachel, dual katanas, and ability to fire the bow in the air are all great additions. But the lowered difficulty and Reader's Digest-ified level design ensured that Black would remain the definitive version of the game.

If you have a 360, you should know that NGB has flawless backwards compatibility support, with 720p to boot! It's even up for download on XBL. I don't own an original Xbox either.

[sjewkestheloon]

Sigmas fit comfortably alongside the vanilla ninja gaidens rather than replacing them. I just see them as another way to play with different options.