Hardest Shmups?

[Op Intensify]

X-Multiply

Whaaaaat? That's right down there with R-Type 1 and Leo as one of Irem's easiest shmups.

[stryc9]

Gaiares.

It's rather a tough nut to crack. I got this late last week. You gotta love it, I steal three levels of firepower from the 2nd stage midboss, and it's the most powerful shot I've found so far. Then I get to the giant clam/mermaid boss and find that the shot doesn't even hit the weak spot as it's too wide (looked a bit like Wave from TFIII). But then I found you can actually hit the boss with this shot - if you point blank it with your sprite overlapping the boss's weak point. I had shield so that helped.

Great game, I'm surprised it doesn't get more of a mention, it's kinda like the Mega Drive's Gradius, except you don't have the issue of space cow syndrome on recovery.

[Ed Oscuro]

X-Multiply

Whaaaaat? That's right down there with R-Type 1 and Leo as one of Irem's easiest shmups.

That end boss.

Tougher than other Irem titles I can think of at the moment, like Fire Barrel.

[Sly Cherry Chunks]

X-Multiply

Whaaaaat? That's right down there with R-Type 1 and Leo as one of Irem's easiest shmups.

Yet you find R-Type III and Amiga games hard? X-Multiply is a real bitch! Full defailts and turn that autofire off! Whats goin on in this thread????

[Op Intensify]

I never said any Amiga games were hard. I have barely any experience with them myself, so I guessed that "probably" some of them might be hard. You're putting words into my mouth.

R-Type III turns into the most brutal memorizer ever from Stage 4 on. Worse than Rezon and Image Fight. I needed like 15 continues from the same checkpoint to get through Stage 4's fire tube maze.

[Sly Cherry Chunks]

ITT: Game that are probably hard

[xbl0x180]

I dunno... maybe Sky Soldiers. The stages are short, but, god damn, I used to get killed on it real fast, which is why I only played it a few times and gave up

Interesting thing about Sky Soldier: The game has some kind of anti-autofire rank that increases boss toughness based on how fast you're shooting. This is seen as early as the first boss (the snake helicoptor thingie). Playing with no autofire, I can normally destroy it in 3 or so passes. Next trying it with max autofire and holding it down the whole level. Even with a solid stream of bullets hitting the boss, it suddenly takes me around 12-15 passes to beat. That's just crazy.

The other kicker is that most of the interesting-looking boss aircraft are in the latter stages

[Ruldra]

In every shmup I've ever played, there was at least this sense that I was getting better, learning the game, and making progress.
This feeling does not exist in Gradius III.
There is only pain. And death. And bubbles.

I felt like this until I learned how to consistently get past stage 2. The game became much more fun after that...then it became hell again when I reached the cube rush.

As for hardest shmups:

- Dimahoo
- Tatsujin Oh
- Late Psikyo games (Gunbird 2, Strikers 1999, Dragon Blaze)
- Dodonpachi Daioujou (bonus points for Death Label)

[Mortificator]

For the moment, I'll go with Truxton II for verts and Gradius III arcade for horis.

Can't think of any famously hard NES shmups.

Starship Hector's pretty tough.

X-Multiply

The last stage is a cunt.

[Ed Oscuro]

Huh, the Sky Soldiers thing makes sense...a very primitive version of Battle Garegga rank, maybe?

[Master O]

Another vote for Gradius III

In every shmup I've ever played, there was at least this sense that I was getting better, learning the game, and making progress.
This feeling does not exist in Gradius III.
There is only pain. And death. And bubbles.

And cubes! Lots of $%&%$^&*% cubes!!!!!!

Oh and that fire level with the rocks that break up but you can't destroy them completely.

[Drum]

So what are the criteria people use to judge how hard a game is? Margin of error? Severity of punishment? Like, is there some formula?
R-Type is pretty hard at first, but it's pretty easy once you've memorised it. So where does that fit? idk

[xbl0x180]

So what are the criteria people use to judge how hard a game is? Margin of error? Severity of punishment? Like, is there some formula?
R-Type is pretty hard at first, but it's pretty easy once you've memorised it. So where does that fit? idk

I don't think you can memorise patterns and enemy locations with Sky Soldiers. You just know you're going to lose... a lot

[Volteccer_Jack]

So what are the criteria people use to judge how hard a game is? Margin of error? Severity of punishment? Like, is there some formula?
R-Type is pretty hard at first, but it's pretty easy once you've memorised it. So where does that fit? idk

Basically how often the game throws stuff at you and how hard it is to avoid that stuff. I say "how often" instead of "how much", because I think being forced to make several decisions in rapid succession is more fun than solving one big wall of bullets. I prefer a more chaotic game like Raiden Fighters over the big choreographed curtains in stuff like Ikaruga. Punishments are almost always uninteresting (though I think Gradius is a rare counterexample), so I don't care about them. Don't much care about memorization, either. I consider R-Type 1 to be pretty easy compared to other shmups (though I never did beat the last level).

Image Fight isn't so bad with autofire. Dimahoo is only bad when playing for score.

Image Fight is the only one of the four I listed that I've even come close to beating. Dimahoo, I can make it as far as the third boss/stage 4 if I pick Solo Bang, otherwise I tend to fumble into everything in the latter part of stage 2.

One level of Gradius III is more fun than entire other games, which is good because I've only seen the fourth stage maybe twice. Most of my deaths are in that clusterfuck near the beginning of the third stage, where a bunch of generators and gun turrets are shooting more crap at me than the final stage of R-Type Leo, and they're doing it while hiding behind walls so I can't even shoot back.

R-Type III (Stage 4 in particular)

Really? I only played it once or twice, because the beginning of the game bored me to tears.

Interesting thing about Sky Soldier: The game has some kind of anti-autofire rank that increases boss toughness based on how fast you're shooting. This is seen as early as the first boss (the snake helicoptor thingie). Playing with no autofire, I can normally destroy it in 3 or so passes. Next trying it with max autofire and holding it down the whole level. Even with a solid stream of bullets hitting the boss, it suddenly takes me around 12-15 passes to beat. That's just crazy.

With button mashing and liberal application of missiles, you can kill him on the first pass. So weird when you do the same thing with autofire on and it takes all day.

Not sure if I like the feel. When you're doing well, it seems like you're breezing right through, so when you do get hit, it's like sudden onset torture. Still think it may grow on me though. Reminds me a lot of another one I used to play when I was a kid, had some generic name like Strike Fighter or something.

Gaiares

Okay, I'm not entirely sure what's going on in this game, but I'm pretty sure it's amazing.

Tatsujin

This is exactly the sort of thing I was looking for. It wants to kick my ass, and it wants me to know it wants to kick my ass. Upon investigation, it seems the local junk shop has a Genesis Truxton cart among their collection of ancient games. I think I might have to go buy it; look for Gaiares while I'm at it.

[Drum]

So what are the criteria people use to judge how hard a game is? Margin of error? Severity of punishment? Like, is there some formula?
R-Type is pretty hard at first, but it's pretty easy once you've memorised it. So where does that fit? idk

Basically how often the game throws stuff at you and how hard it is to avoid that stuff. I say "how often" instead of "how much", because I think being forced to make several decisions in rapid succession is more fun than solving one big wall of bullets. I prefer a more chaotic game like Raiden Fighters over the big choreographed curtains in stuff like Ikaruga. Punishments are almost always uninteresting (though I think Gradius is a rare counterexample), so I don't care about them. Don't much care about memorization, either. I consider R-Type 1 to be pretty easy compared to other shmups (though I never did beat the last level).

Yeah, this seems like a pretty good way to do it, this in particular summarises my feelings pretty well:

I say "how often" instead of "how much", because I think being forced to make several decisions in rapid succession is more fun than solving one big wall of bullets

Games that are hard even once you've beaten them are ones that just constantly spew new situations at you, and target the player directly which makes memorisation impractical or outright impossible.
I really can't stand Gradius III though, and I love the Gradius series.

[finisherr]

Shooters are tough. Nature of the beast.

[stryc9]

Shooters are tough. Nature of the beast.

Yeah, but obviously there are degrees. MUSHA Aleste and Thunder Force III went down in a matter of nights on defaults (and Hard mode in the case of TFIII). I beat Mushi 1.5 Original Non-Max on my second credit, which I guess makes that mode easier even than the two MD games I just mentioned.

I'll second Ketsui as a toughie, stage 5 is a pain in the arse. Oh, and someone mentioned Raiden IV. I find this one really challenging past level 4, and considering 360 Mode adds two extra stages to the regular 5, this definitely goes in here.

[indico]

I've always found the later stages (3,4,5) of Ikaruga absolutely brutal. It's like my mind can cope with switching polarities fast enough for some reason and I always choke at some point.

[gs68]

Gradius IV.

(ﾉﾟдﾟ)ﾉ 彡ǝbɐʇs ǝןqqnq

It's worth noting what while Seahawk0027, purveyor of Gradius games on hardest difficulty, is able to 1-ALL GIII Very Difficult, he can't even reach the high speed stage in GIV.

[Bloodreign]

X-Multiply

Got the PS1 version recently (along with Image Fight, hurrah), it starts out tame enough, but the teeth of this thing really kicks in around stage 4. I believe this is the stage where you must avoid the acid drops. Do not die to that boss as I find it has the games worst checkpoint, right before the boss, not a powerup in sight.

[Ruldra]

R-Type III (Stage 4 in particular)

Really? I only played it once or twice, because the beginning of the game bored me to tears.

People often mention stage 4 being hard because you'll end up dying at the maze or the mid-boss, and recovering from there is tough. But the game is actually incredibly easy when you're at full power.

This game was a personal favorite of mine in the past, but after playing so many arcade shmups, now I find R-Type III VERY slow paced. I still like it but playing it is painful.

[Jeneki]

R-Type is pretty hard at first, but it's pretty easy once you've memorised it. So where does that fit? idk

Anyone have a video of someone actually defeating the stage 7 boss? Every video I've found just tucks in a corner and waits for a timeout.

[ChainsawGuitarSP]

R-Type stage 7 boss isn't worth any points, so everybody just milks it until it times out rather than killing it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L56sOChegBc#t=5m50s

[Ed Oscuro]

Note: Psychic Storm is not a tough game

[Master O]

Gradius IV.

(ﾉﾟдﾟ)ﾉ 彡ǝbɐʇs ǝןqqnq

It's worth noting what while Seahawk0027, purveyor of Gradius games on hardest difficulty, is able to 1-ALL GIII Very Difficult, he can't even reach the high speed stage in GIV.

Of course, as soon as you say that, Seahawk will post a video doing exactly that.

[Drum]

I found Gradius IV quite a bit easier than III, but I didn't play either on the hardest setting.

[EmperorIng]

people play gradius games on settings besides Very Easy?

[shaowebb]

Bangai-O games. Its hilarious how many people turn on missile command, brace themselves and then die within the first second unsure how to knock back anything.

[Deca]

ITT: everyone just sort of names games they can't beat.

[Jeneki]

I commend this "hardest" topic for going on this long without someone posting you-know-who from Gynoug.