Are you religious?

[Ed Oscuro]

Every crime has it's own story and every case is different. Individual circumstances must be taken into account by the judge, jury, and the people actually related to the case.

It's one thing to say "we can't rehabilitate people," quite another to say "punishment is the goal." Deterrence, sure, I'll give you that one, but you have to wonder how much of it is really revenge. Are the two separable? Maybe not.

[Hagane]

Atheist. I used to be annoying and militant about it, now I don't really care.

[BrianC]

I'm a follower of Christ.

[xbl0x180]

Every crime has it's own story and every case is different. Individual circumstances must be taken into account by the judge, jury, and the people actually related to the case.

It's one thing to say "we can't rehabilitate people," quite another to say "punishment is the goal." Deterrence, sure, I'll give you that one, but you have to wonder how much of it is really revenge. Are the two separable? Maybe not.

Well, abraham's religion states God is vengeful... and jealous. There are a lot of instances in the holy bible where transgressions are met with death or some form of cruel and unusual punishment.

Who here would slit the throat of their first-born kid as an offer/proof of devotion to yahweh

[BrianC]

Well, abraham's religion states God is vengeful... and jealous. There are a lot of instances in the holy bible where transgressions are met with death or some form of cruel and unusual punishment.

There are also examples where transgressions are forgiven like the woman at the well who was treated kindly by Jesus despite her reputation.

Who here would slit the throat of their first-born kid as an offer/proof of devotion to yahweh

Abraham was asked to sacriface his son Issac, but God spared Issac. Abraham had faith that God wouldn't kill his son and he didn't.

[xbl0x180]

Well, abraham's religion states God is vengeful... and jealous. There are a lot of instances in the holy bible where transgressions are met with death or some form of cruel and unusual punishment.

There are also examples where transgressions are forgiven like the woman at the well who was treated kindly by Jesus despite her reputation.

Who here would slit the throat of their first-born kid as an offer/proof of devotion to yahweh

Abraham was asked to sacriface his son Issac, but God spared Issac. Abraham had faith that God wouldn't kill his son and he didn't.

Exactly. It isn't very consistent when it comes to meting out justice. Some are cast into hell to burn for eternity, others are killed off in a holocaust in the form of fire from the heavens (as others are turned to pillars of salt), and a few more are killed off in another holocaust in the form of a great flood... while a few others are simply forgiven; very random. Shoot, that's the kind of thing I'd expect from a maniac tyrant.

Also, it's very surprising the pause some people give whenever the rhetorical question is asked as to whether they'd sacrifice their own first-born as proof of devotion to God. I mean, if God knows everything and knew that ol' Abe had faith that he wouldn't have to murder his own son as proof, then what was the point of the exercise in the first place? Was it just for show? What kind of a brutish display of devotion is this? After all, God is like Santa - he knows when you're good and bad. There was no need to take little Isaac to be slaughtered like an animal, even in gest. Actually, God should know a little more than that - he knows when you're going to be good and bad. So, by extension, what's the point of receiving "judgment" from God at all? There was someone who wrote the analogy about creating a statue of a pig only to lash out at it because it looks like a pig and not something else

[CIT]

So can we deduce some correlation between playing shooters and lack of religiousness?

Or are the results due to half the forum being from outside the US?

Or is it simply that less religious people are more inclined to take polls?

[Gus]

You should have included an option for "I don't give a fuck either way."

[JBC]

I'm independently religious. I'm sure whatever I'm praying to at night would understand why I don't invest in any specifics and if it didn't it would be a self-righteous asshole anyway.

Praying sends me into a meditative state and makes me feel more grounded. I still ask for forgiveness because it helps me to feel clean and allows me to move forward without being weighed down by guilt. I'm aware that none of us can ever be perfect so as long as we try to be good people and learn from our mistakes we shouldn't have to bear the burden of guilt. We are more effective without negativity anyway and the more positive & productive you are, the better you are as a person.

I'm not so concerned about an afterlife. I feel lucky as an individual to have ever existed at all. When we die it seems most probable that, just like our molecules, our consciousnesses also 'go back into the mix'. How you define what that entails is up to you. Seems kinda shallow to expect mansions and streets of gold if you ask me.

It's funny how some organized religions tend to capitalize on fear and desire by promising you an afterlife appealing to whichever weakness you're most a slave to. I see it as an outdated system of control we need less and less as communication technologies spread and educational media becomes more readily available. A smarter people is a less violent people, and people need to start being good for the right reasons anyway.

[ebarrett]

the fuck I know

[Moniker]

You should have included an option for "I don't give a fuck either way."

I actually did consider apathy/areligious as an option, but decided against it since, in my view, everyone defaults to one world view or another, even if they don't really think about it. I.e., those that don't care are probably agnostics or atheists deep down.

[ebarrett]

those that don't care are probably agnostics or atheists deep down

That doesn't cover the people who care a lot about not caring.

[Drum]

It would be wrong for me to believe in god, because I don't have any good reasons to believe in god.

[kernow]

It would be wrong for me to believe in god, because I don't have any good reasons to believe in god.

He created the very earth you walk on!

[Ruldra]

I'm a Scientologist.

I'm on a deep cover mission to infiltrate Casino arcade and lure the regulars into the Scientology temple next door so the head priest can convert them with his mind powers.

Don't tell them.

When I visited the Casino Arcade, I wandered into that Scientology building thinking it was a regular bookstore. The woman in there tried really hard to drag me inside and watch some video about Dianetics. I felt something was fishy and left in a hurry.

On topic: I'm an atheist.

[hzt]

I remember you posted about it in the thread; lucky escape.

They normally leave us alone but the other day a particularly enthusiastic woman started talking to MX7 and me - I mostly ignored her but MX7 talked to her a bit. When she asked him what he knew about Scientology he said "it's a cult, isn't it" and she happily replied "yes, that's right!" or something along those lines... I thought they weren't supposed to like people saying that.

[BrianC]

Exactly. It isn't very consistent when it comes to meting out justice. Some are cast into hell to burn for eternity, others are killed off in a holocaust in the form of fire from the heavens (as others are turned to pillars of salt), and a few more are killed off in another holocaust in the form of a great flood... while a few others are simply forgiven; very random. Shoot, that's the kind of thing I'd expect from a maniac tyrant.

Not what I was saying at all. It's not random at all. God does everything for a reason and doesn't just blindly kill people. Adam and Eve brought sin into the world by disobeying God (putting himself above God is how Satan became evil, not due to God). Sin is not something that is taken lightly and God punishes those who disobey him. However, since God is good and the creator or good following him allows salvation from sins. Rules were more strict in the old testament (before Christ) becuase people had to sacriface animals to prove obedience to God, but God made the ultimate sacrifice to allow salvation, despite our sins.

Also, it's very surprising the pause some people give whenever the rhetorical question is asked as to whether they'd sacrifice their own first-born as proof of devotion to God. I mean, if God knows everything and knew that ol' Abe had faith that he wouldn't have to murder his own son as proof, then what was the point of the exercise in the first place? Was it just for show? What kind of a brutish display of devotion is this? After all, God is like Santa - he knows when you're good and bad. There was no need to take little Isaac to be slaughtered like an animal, even in gest. Actually, God should know a little more than that - he knows when you're going to be good and bad. So, by extension, what's the point of receiving "judgment" from God at all? There was someone who wrote the analogy about creating a statue of a pig only to lash out at it because it looks like a pig and not something else

God was testing Abraham to help teach Abraham a lesson, not for himself. God isn't like Santa. He doesn't give handouts for every single person who does good. He tests us (but not tempts) and wants us to grow. He wants us to trust in him and do good works. Good works isn't what gets us into heaven, but it's how we show love for others.

[louisg]

Quote:
Also, it's very surprising the pause some people give whenever the rhetorical question is asked as to whether they'd sacrifice their own first-born as proof of devotion to God. I mean, if God knows everything and knew that ol' Abe had faith that he wouldn't have to murder his own son as proof, then what was the point of the exercise in the first place? Was it just for show? What kind of a brutish display of devotion is this? After all, God is like Santa - he knows when you're good and bad. There was no need to take little Isaac to be slaughtered like an animal, even in gest. Actually, God should know a little more than that - he knows when you're going to be good and bad. So, by extension, what's the point of receiving "judgment" from God at all? There was someone who wrote the analogy about creating a statue of a pig only to lash out at it because it looks like a pig and not something else


God was testing Abraham to help teach Abraham a lesson, not for himself. God isn't like Santa. He doesn't give handouts for every single person who does good. He tests us (but not tempts) and wants us to grow. He wants us to trust in him and do good works. Good works isn't what gets us into heaven, but it's how we show love for others.

If I were writing the Bible, the lesson would've been the opposite: If you take your kid out to be sacrificed just because an authority figure told you to, then you're clearly not thinking for yourself. If you believe God created us, then that means he created us to have a brain and to use our own judgement, not just to blindly follow.

This is also interesting: I found a retcon of the story on a Bible studies site:

If we think it seems cruel, remember that God only asks Abraham to go through what he himself has gone through in sacrificing his own son for us. Abraham did not have to go all the way through with it, but God did.

I guess Star Wars fans aren't the only ones that do that!

[Vyxx]

Sin is not something that is taken lightly and God punishes those who disobey him.

It is indeed something that is taken with a grain of salt considering your average good citizen could find himself burning in the depths of hell for merely wearing a shirt that is made of wool and linen woven together.

but God made the ultimate sacrifice to allow salvation, despite our sins.

Oh yeah I head about that. God sacrificed himself to himself to appease himself. Not only that, being the omniscient being he is, he already knew he was going to have to do this, so he could have just skipped that part all together anyways.

[BrianC]

Sin is not something that is taken lightly and God punishes those who disobey him.

It is indeed something that is taken with a grain of salt considering your average good citizen could find himself burning in the depths of hell for merely wearing a shirt that is made of wool and linen woven together.

Things like this were abolished after Jesus's sacriface and were guidelines due to the culture at the time. Accoring to my beliefs, we are inherently evil becuase of Adam and Eve's sin and good comes from God. God doens't randomly punish people for no reason, or punish those who don't deserve it. There are many parts of the new testament that show that many of the old testament laws (aside from the 10 commandments) don't apply any more. Also, in the new testament, many people who had strict adherence to these laws without putting God first were shown in a bad light.

but God made the ultimate sacrifice to allow salvation, despite our sins.

Oh yeah I head about that. God sacrificed himself to himself to appease himself. Not only that, being the omniscient being he is, he already knew he was going to have to do this, so he could have just skipped that part all together anyways.

No, he sacrificed himself so we could have salvation from the sins that we let into the world by disobeying God. Skipping the sacriface would do nothing for our sins.

[ryu]

so basically it's okay to murder, because jesus died so that people can still go to heaven and have nice afterlifes even if they commit murder?

why don't we just kill each other and all go to heaven together? sounds good. everyone can live happilyafter afterwards i reckon.

[BrianC]

so basically it's okay to murder, because jesus died so that people can still go to heaven and have nice afterlifes even if they commit murder?

why don't we just kill each other and all go to heaven together? sounds good. everyone can live happilyafter afterwards i reckon.

No. It's not ok to murder. I think you missed the "(aside from the 10 commandments)" in the last post, which covers murder. I was saying that it's ok to eat shrimp, pork, the laws like that (though we should still respect those who believe otherwise). Stoning people is highly discouraged in the new testament, as well. I should have been more clear. I wasn't saying everything was ok, and I was perhaps too vague. I do believe that someone can be forgiven for murder if they turn from their old ways, but I wasn't saying it's ok to sin. As far was who goes to heaven of hell, my belief is that if you believe in Jesus as lord and savior you go to heaven, but with that belief comes trust in him and the holy spirit in your heart, who guides you to do good. While we still sin, it's most likely someone who claims God is in his heart, yet murders and continues to constantly sin and do things against Him, doesn't really believe.

[antron]

BrianC, do you think slaves should obey their earthly masters? That's in the New Testament four times.

[BrianC]

BrianC, do you think slaves should obey their earthly masters? That's in the New Testament four times.

I feel slavery is wrong, but this is a different time period where it wasn't illegal (doesn't make it right). I think people should be treated with love and respect period, but slavers were also encouraged to set slaves free in the NT, something I have quite often seen overlooked.

[antron]

BrianC, do you think slaves should obey their earthly masters? That's in the New Testament four times.

I feel slavery is wrong, but this is a different time period (doesn't make it right, but Slavery was common back then). I think people should be treated with love and respect period, but slavers were also encouraged to set slaves free in the NT, something I have quite often seen overlooked.

So the NT is wrong there?

If so what else is it wrong on? Hell maybe? God loves us, right? Do you torture things you love?

[BrianC]

BrianC, do you think slaves should obey their earthly masters? That's in the New Testament four times.

I feel slavery is wrong, but this is a different time period (doesn't make it right, but Slavery was common back then). I think people should be treated with love and respect period, but slavers were also encouraged to set slaves free in the NT, something I have quite often seen overlooked.

So the NT is wrong there?

If so what else is it wrong on? Hell maybe? God is love, right? Do you torture things you love?

No, I think your interpertation of the NT is wrong. It never said whether or not slavery is ok, but it tells slaves and slavers to treat other with respect and encourages slavers to set slaves free. Tell me one place where it says it's ok to torture slaves. I read nothing of that nature in any of those verses.

[antron]

I apologize for not being clear. Could you go back and directly answer my very first question? Not state something about the topic, but directly answer the question?

Do you think slaves should obey their earthly masters?

I am clearly just trying to open the door that something in the NT could be wrong.

[BrianC]

I apologize for not being clear. Could you go back and directly answer my very first question? Not state something about the topic, but directly answer the question?

Do you think slaves should obey their earthly masters?

I am clearly just trying to open the door that something in the NT could be wrong.

I find it to be a loaded question. You know what it says and I do believe obedience is more peaceful than the alternative, but if I answer directly, it opens a big can of worms.

[antron]

I apologize for not being clear. Could you go back and directly answer my very first question? Not state something about the topic, but directly answer the question?

Do you think slaves should obey their earthly masters?

I am clearly just trying to open the door that something in the NT could be wrong.

I find it to be a loaded question. You know what it says and I do believe obedience is more peaceful than the alternative, but if I answer directly, it opens a big can of worms.

So ignore it and hope the little problem goes away?
By the way, my mention of torture was in reference to Hell. Where God tortures the beings he supposedly loves.

Sorry we are all ganging up on you. You may feel persecuted but don't. Athiests are far more persecuted in America these days. (which I am not, by the way) Where's the Deist catagory?

[Moniker]

Where's the Deist catagory?

"Independently religious."