The Resident Evil 6 trailer is out

[Hagane]

What filler?

It's fair enough if people prefer the older style, but preferring the newer games and rating RE5 better than RE4? That's madness. RE5 is down there with RE0 as the low point of the main series for me.

Lots of parts of nothing happening and backtracking.

RE5 takes the system of RE4 and improves on it in every way. Probably since most people played it in console and had to put up with pad controls they don't hold it in such high regard (playing a third person shooter / FPS with a pad is like playing a fighting game with a driving wheel). Skykid is spot on in that it isn't nearly as good near the end, though.

I personally don't see the appeal of older REs. The action was rubbish, and if I want puzzles there are better games for that (such as graphic adventures). I really don't get how older RE fans can call RE5 "lazy" when there's not that much variation between RE1-CV. And I'm puzzled to see people criticize action on a shmup forum.

Finally, I'll always take Sheva, who usually does what she needs to do over "HELP ME LEON!!!, HEEEELP!!!".

[drauch]

Probably since most people played it in console and had to put up with pad controls they don't hold it in such high regard (playing a third person shooter / FPS with a pad is like playing a fighting game with a driving wheel).

This is some silly business. I certainly prefer my FPS games and the like on the PC, but lots of games are fantastic nowadays on a pad. Hell, I know plenty of people are better on pad than a PC. I'd say a more appropriate analogy-and one that make sense-would be "like playing a fighting game with a pad rather than a joystick". Butttt...that sort of stuff clearly doesn't matter if you have skill in one or the other.

[Hagane]

My analogy was a hyperbole, but really playing FPSs with a pad is quite awful, especially if you've been playing them with keyboard and mouse for a long time. Pads are nowhere near as good for anything that requires precise aiming. And developers usually have to resort to wacky combinations or cut actions off to fit them in their limited button count.

[Obiwanshinobi]

I'm pretty sure some sort of PC first person shooters can't be done well with a joypad (although both Tribes and UT had console iterations, they are most likely dead in the water now).

RE5 takes the system of RE4 and improves on it in every way. Probably since most people played it in console and had to put up with pad controls they don't hold it in such high regard (playing a third person shooter / FPS with a pad is like playing a fighting game with a driving wheel).

RE4 was mostly a walk in the park with a joypad, though. Properly done mouse and keyboard controls would take away what little tension it provides as is.

[Ed Oscuro]

Dino Crisis 2 was a pretty Terrible Dino Crisis.

Edit: I did 'er all the same, and I enjoyed it.

I'm pretty sure some sort of PC first person shooters can't be done well with a joypad

To be reasonable about it, many of these are poorly designed to begin with. Lots of FPSes (especially from the tacticool genre) put way too much emphasis on being able to put enemies into the far distance where they end up rendering two pixels tall, and ask you to shoot the dust off their eyebrows with a Razer mouse at 1080p resolutions (even though the game I'm describing could be one of the Delta Force games from the late 90s/early aughts). The real benefit of mouse + keys isn't "can't be done on joypad" but "won't be as fast as DOOM RPG otherwise." Won't Diablo be on consoles, anyway?

[evil_ash_xero]

I dunno...I'll certainly give it a shot, but while I liked RE5, it didn't bring almost anything new to the table, and wasn't as weird as the others. I don't have a lot of faith in the series, since the original guys left it. We'll see, but Capcom aren't really kicking ass anymore.

[Ed Oscuro]

[RE5] wasn't as weird as the others.

There's wierd, and there's eerie. It's not eerie the 480th time you find a key piece of Romantic era (vaguely satanic) design and engrish lettering in the base.

I played Zero though a few months ago (didn't have the patience to try the Leech Hunter mode on the hard difficulty, though) and was vaguely annoyed to discover that the first encounter with the old man didn't take place at the end of a dock in some swamps like a video I saw years ago seemed to suggest. Online videos - can't trust 'em.

[JBC]

I played Zero though a few months ago (didn't have the patience to try the Leech Hunter mode on the hard difficulty, though) and was vaguely annoyed to discover that the first encounter with the old man didn't take place at the end of a dock in some swamps like a video I saw years ago seemed to suggest. Online videos - can't trust 'em.

I wonder if maybe it was a clip from the N64 version development of Zero began with? From my understanding when they made the jump to Gamecube quite a bit of stuff was changed or axed altogether, much like RE 1.5 starring Leon and Elza Walker.

[Paradigm]

RE5 takes the system of RE4 and improves on it in every way. Probably since most people played it in console and had to put up with pad controls they don't hold it in such high regard

Well that's a silly thing to say because I (like most people I'm sure) played both games with a pad and controls weren't an issue or had any bearing on why 4 was a much better game. Like Obiwanshinobi said, the games don't need the controls to be any more precise than they are with a pad. RE4 with a wiimote is too easy (but still enjoyable).

For what it's worth I thought 5 was a good game, as are all in the main series IMO. It just happens to be one of my least favourites. To be fair, RE4 was a masterpiece and it was only ever gonna be downhill from there. I can't see them reaching those heights again.

[Hagane]

I'm sure you could eventually get to play a fighter with a driving wheel too, but it still is an inferior control setup. RE5 (and any decent FPS / third person shooter) is much better on keyboard + mouse.

Also, please explain in detail how the system in 4 is better than 5. What got worse and for which reason. Because most of the time I get a RE4 fan complaining about RE5 their reasons are characters, story, setting and other secondary stuff like that.

[Ed Oscuro]

I played Zero though a few months ago (didn't have the patience to try the Leech Hunter mode on the hard difficulty, though) and was vaguely annoyed to discover that the first encounter with the old man didn't take place at the end of a dock in some swamps like a video I saw years ago seemed to suggest. Online videos - can't trust 'em.

I wonder if maybe it was a clip from the N64 version development of Zero began with? From my understanding when they made the jump to Gamecube quite a bit of stuff was changed or axed altogether, much like RE 1.5 starring Leon and Elza Walker.

Nah, it was clearly a CG and I've seen a bit of the N64 "beta" stuff (footage from TGS or E3 actually) - out of RE games known to have a lengthy production time, Zero is the one that has a reputation for changing the least. Becca had a red beret at one time, and the game took so damn long that they ended up changing her outfit in line with RE Remake, which is fine by me. The train scenes were essentially identical on the N64 - just missing the CG (in-game cutscenes = blah). Like I said, I might just be misremembering things or might have not really paid attention to what I was watching. Strikes me as really strange, though. I've got to keep a running count of the times I thought I saw something in a game which turned out to be totally different from my memory.

Also, please explain in detail how the system in 4 is better than 5. What got worse and for which reason. Because most of the time I get a RE4 fan complaining about RE5 their reasons are characters, story, setting and other secondary stuff like that.

Who is this guy?

Mr. Hagane, you'll notice that a partial answer has already been supplied in the thread to your query. The partner system in RE5 was pretty widely reviled because whats-her-name is a spendthrift with ammo. I also question whether I could take anybody seriously after dismissing the importance of "characters, story, setting and other secondary stuff like that" in a Resident Evil game. Sure, I would enjoy a third person shooting game that could carry the torch for Contra or what-have-you, but RE is mass-market. What is more important to the developers is giving the impression of having fought a tough battle than actually having done so. It's from the "movie you control" playbook of action game design, rather than an update to arcade-style favorites.

RE "driving wheels" - so razorknife's Tenchu 2 walkthrough has the following pearl of wisdom:

Some advice: Don't use the analog function for this game. There's no
benefit and it will only mess you up. This would be akin to playing Tekken
with a flight sim joystick (and I know some of you do this. Please stop,
it's embarrasing.).

I still use it because it's comfortable (at least as comfortable as you can be playing Tenchu 2).

I think taking a holistic approach to game design makes sense: Given a control setup, you design the system to make good use of the controls - instead of wishing you could be developing for another platform. I'll admit exceptions to this (here, use this rotting log as a game controller) but they are few and far between. Even the N64 has a third person shooter with a decent control setup in WinBack.

[Hagane]

Mr. Hagane, you'll notice that a partial answer has already been supplied in the thread to your query. The partner system in RE5 was pretty widely reviled because whats-her-name is a spendthrift with ammo.

She only really wastes recovery items. If you feel like she wastes ammo (I never had that problem), give her a sniper. Slow fire rate, and she never misses.

So, that's all there is bad about RE5?

I also question whether I could take anybody seriously after dismissing the importance of "characters, story, setting and other secondary stuff like that" in a Resident Evil game.

I'd consider stuff that isn't playable to be secondary to, you know, the quality of the things you can do.

[Ed Oscuro]

Mr. Hagane, you'll notice that a partial answer has already been supplied in the thread to your query. The partner system in RE5 was pretty widely reviled because whats-her-name is a spendthrift with ammo.

She only really wastes recovery items. If you feel like she wastes ammo (I never had that problem), give her a sniper. Slow fire rate, and she never misses.

So, that's all there is bad about RE5?

There's that, and the minor fact that they didn't nail the setting or the dramatic exposition like RE4 did.

Exposition is for chumps!

I also question whether I could take anybody seriously after dismissing the importance of "characters, story, setting and other secondary stuff like that" in a Resident Evil game.

I'd consider stuff that isn't playable to be secondary to, you know, the quality of the things you can do.[/quote]
So punching garbage cans (we'll just pretend they're boulders) > spooky ambiance and a gripping storyline, now? You note that "the quality of the things you can do" is meaningless in isolation from the "purely aesthetic" elements; otherwise you might as well be playing a PhysX tech demo.

You're barking up the wrong tree. It's not that anybody begrudges your wishes for a more challenging and interesting game on the PC, it's that they don't care when it comes to this series.

[Hagane]

There's that, and the minor fact that they didn't nail the setting or the dramatic exposition like RE4 did.

Exposition is for chumps!

I'd like you to define that game system to me.

So punching garbage cans (we'll just pretend they're boulders) > spooky ambiance and a gripping storyline, now?

RE never had the things after the >, except maybe for the Iron Maidens in RE4. In any case, they are secondary to how well the game plays. And to me RE5 is a refinement over RE4 in that aspect, the one that really matters when it comes to a game.

[drauch]

I dunno. I mean, I've been playing FPS games since the heyday, and yeah, I hate playing with a pad and am much better on PC. My best friend has been playing just as long and used to be a PC snob; now he prefers a pad and is undoubtedly better with it. It really all boils down to what you prefer. Hell, didn't some dude win an HDREMIX Evo event(or at least get close) playing Zangief with a pad? Same deal.

[TransatlanticFoe]

Also, please explain in detail how the system in 4 is better than 5. What got worse and for which reason. Because most of the time I get a RE4 fan complaining about RE5 their reasons are characters, story, setting and other secondary stuff like that.

The inventory system is frustrating, because it overcomplicates things like combining herbs each owned by one of the characters - you can't, you have to somehow get both in your inventory, combine, then swap back/pick up whatever made way. It's somehow supposed to be more realistic than having a magic briefcase, but then you have the magical storage space-cum-shop between levels which is somehow more ridiculous than a magic briefcase and a random merchant.

Sheva will regularly ignore orders if something gets in the way - you'll call her to you and she'll end up fighting a bunch of stuff. I kept dying at the part where you're chased by hundreds of lickers and have to get in a lift - because Sheva absolutely would not stop fighting the lickers and get in the lift. When called, she'd run a bit, get hit/touch a licker and then start fighting again. Eventually I had to waste ammo to clear enough lickers for her to stop fighting them and get in the damn lift! Constantly having to worry about managing your partner is frustrating - unlike Ashley (who is helpless, so protecting her is an acceptable game mechanism), Sheva's meant to be hard enough to look after herself. Which would be fine if she didn't run around like a headless chicken and end up in trouble, needing rescuing. It is intensely annoying that you have to waste your inventory space with recovery items because Sheva will waste them. The system was designed to be played online with real people, which severely handicaps those of us who want to play alone because we're stuck with the rotten AI.

None of this makes Resi 5 a terrible game. They're annoyances which weren't present in Resi 4. Resi 5 doesn't improve anything from 4 - it takes the same core gameplay and introduces new features which are rubbish. Ergo it's still a good game but Resi 4 is better.

[Skykid]

For what it's worth I thought 5 was a good game, as are all in the main series IMO. It just happens to be one of my least favourites. To be fair, RE4 was a masterpiece and it was only ever gonna be downhill from there. I can't see them reaching those heights again.

Agreed.

[neorichieb1971]

I played RE5 before and after playing Dead Space. I liked it before, hated it with a passion afterwards.

The controls just felt way way wrong and the inventory system was pants. If RE5 makes you scared its because you can't figure out the controls which leads to ridiculous running in circles until the cut scene appears.

I then went to RE4 again on my GC. It felt great to play, which says to me the dual shock has something to do with it.

And the partner system, OMFG! What a burden that was. Made playing really unexciting indeed.

[Obiwanshinobi]

My best friend has been playing just as long and used to be a PC snob; now he prefers a pad and is undoubtedly better with it.

Makes me wonder what sort of first person shooters he is better at. I know some people play Quake III on the original modded Xbox against PC gamers online, but never heard about anybody winning any high level competition this way. Maybe the likes of TF2 are more pad-friendly since one can stick to the less discriminating classes and weapons.

[Skykid]

The controls just felt way way wrong and the inventory system was pants. If RE5 makes you scared its because you can't figure out the controls which leads to ridiculous running in circles until the cut scene appears.

I then went to RE4 again on my GC. It felt great to play, which says to me the dual shock has something to do with it.

Highly likely, the Dual Shock was passable for the pace of the early titles but the pain of trying to play RE4/5 with such loose analogue sensitivity would definitely detract from the experience.

[Obiwanshinobi]

On the PS3 the input lag might have been more of a hindrance than the DualShock's deadzones. I don't recall the DS2 causing any pain in RE4 (the game was still too easy).

[JBC]

I know you shouldn't have to, but giving Sheva a sniper and taking away everything else really does fix her routines. I rarely notice her getting in the way, in fact she's quite helpful that way.

[SuperSoaker360]

I found some more information. Take a look for yourself!

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=459781

They claim that there's going to be more emphasis on fear now. If that's the case, I'm looking forward to the game.

[Strider77]

Enough controller preference bitching. Dual shock and 360 controllers are both completely fine. Enough with the mouse vs controller BS. Millions of folks use BOTH just fine. I didn't find myself stumbling when I have used any of the above methods for playing RE5 or any other game.

[Skykid]

Enough controller preference bitching. Dual shock and 360 controllers are both completely fine.

I'd go as far as to say the 360 controller is excellent for current gen game types, I think MS did a surprisingly good job (especially after the original Xbox controller.)

The Dual Shock was fine ten years ago, but it's old hardware now and it shows. It was incomparable vs the Gamecube pad for RE4 imo, and that's a good indicator of where its limitations lie.

I'm sure everyone will sing its praises and that's cool if you're happy with it. I know Obiwanshinobi prefers using it to play Super Metroid than an actual SFC pad, and that makes me nauseous. In my opinion only, it was eclipsed as a peripheral a long time ago.

[Strider77]

I never felt I've failed anything b/c I was using a dual shock. The thought never crossed my mind. If anything the 360s d pad has and if a game requires you to hold 2 triggers on the same side it's awkward at best.

Having said that I've never thrown either of them cursing there analogue stick for my failure.

[BIL]

LOL @ Leon shitting his pants when he sees ZOMBIE PREZ. What did he think he was gonna do? Play BINGO? Wait, is this awesome Matrix backflipping wisecracking Leon or the boring old fuck from RE2/that CG movie? That would explain it.

[dannnnn]

New trailer, no gameplay.

[Drum]

Hoping it's good :/

[JBC]

"Junior? ... Oh shit."