Audio buzz on Megadrive/Genesis 2

[cfx]

.

[Endymion]

Ain't flux wonderful? I know a lot of people who say "be careful with flux," "don't use too much," "stay away from it," "it causes more problems than it solves," and "I hate that stuff." Foo on that jive, I love flux, I use lots of it all the time, makes life a lot easier and work a lot quicker.

[Rock Man]

Hey,

Try not to let what the guy said bother you. More likely the initial mod had an unknowable effect and bricked his console. Could've been the wrong AC adapter. Usually a power plug with incorrect voltage will kill said machine. I buy cables from you all the time, no complaints here. Even with the Genesis 2 lead I knew what I was getting myself into. The disclaimer states clearly sound problems are unavoidable. This can be circumvented by swapping carts when bad sound is realized. Usually fixes the issue, using clean carts works too. The audio problem only occurs once in a blue moon on my Model 2. When it does I just powerdown, change carts, leave the seconary cart on for a few seconds, turn off the system and swap with the original cart and everything is A-OK. Does not deter my opinion of your business in the slightest.

My condolences for the dudes system but honestly... his reaction was bit rash, even hostile. There is a certain way to handle things you don't go blaming someone elses equipment on a custom machine then expect the second seller to repair your wares. Either way you have plenty of solid feedback from other people and his rep will only last a year. You'd be surprised how quickly a year passes you buy. Just so you know you have my support.

Also, wanted to ask a question. I'm using an XRGB-3, I still need a pure sync SCART, capable of working on Sega 32X combined with the Model 1 Genesis. If it doesn't work I promise I won't rage like other would-be buyers. Should it fail I will request a refund but I wouldn't mind covering the shipping cost. You already have a great track record with me, in all likelihood it's going to succeed if I'm using the XRGB-3. I think it's worth a shot! Can this be done?

[Retro Access]

I got him to remove that feedback.

As for the XRGB-3, it has a better track record than the Mini with sync, and while I've had somebody with a Mini report issues with that setup, if you want to buy the sync cable I have for Genesis 2 and try it, at the worst it gives me more info about compatibility to put in the listing so go ahead. I don't really have issues with XRGB owners who come across a problem. I only seem to get major issues from people who don't understand what I'm selling at all, are completely new to this.

To be honest that "You broke my console" neg is a worst nightmare for cable sellers, I saw it on a competitor's feedback and actually felt sorry for him. Can a cable break a console? Well sure, for example the 5V line is damn close to the ground shielding in the plug. That's why I use heat shrink and test everything first. If anyone's console breaks, it'd mine first. But no, I don't believe I'm that inept at soldering to manage it anyway, I never have.

It is really hard to convince some buyers of this, as it is hard to convince them their upscaler might not like the console, or their TV isn't taking the 240p component signal (oh god is this one a common one, and why I push VGA scalers instead). As I've said to my husband, people want to blame the cheapest part of their setup, they want desperately to believe that the console/TV/upscaler isn't the issue because that means dealing with the person who sold them a much more expensive piece of equipment. I can honestly understand that sort of mentality. I daresay I see a lot more "Item I received is not as described" than most people on eBay, it's a headache but usually people are receptive.

[Rock Man]

I'm glad you got the guy to remove that heinous feedback. Good for you.

Now, what about my question. I asked if you could produce a model 2 cable that's capable of working on the 32X with the Genesis (Model 1) under it. I do have two model 2 cables I got from you, one is regular RGB the other is raw sync. But the raw sync one doesn't work if the 32X is connected to the mod1. Did you try ApolloBoy's suggestion? I want to use the model 1 because it can bypass those sound issues. Likewise I want to still be able to play my 32X and Sega CD. The only way to do that is through a 32X RGB SCART cable with raw sync wired up to support the model 1.

EDIT: Thanks! Got your PM.

[system11]

You can also reduce the buzz by using cable that has audio individually shielded within the overall shielded cable. I went even further with mine and used a separate audio pair.

http://www.system11.org/temp/megacd_cable.jpg

(obviously for a MegaCD setup)

Quick question - are you connecting pin 8 inside the scart plug for source detect? I've recently found that's a problem on newer TVs which use pin 8 to additionally sense 4:3 and 16:9, for example my Bravia will frequently decide to switch to 16;9 regardless of auto format options. The reason is the 5v most of us have been connecting there is in the 16:9 voltage range, you need to send about 10v on that pin to select 4:3.

I'm going to modify my cable and just remove the pin 8 feed entirely.

Another option I was considering, is using a small connector that sits between the power supply and console, which goes to pin 8 in isolation.

[Retro Access]

The thing is the source detect doesn't change aspect ratio on any converter I know of. I mostly sell to the USA. Do I hook it up? Yes I do, because I'm following SCART standard.

You can try disconnecting it, but an annoying number of TVs will then happily fail to go into RGB at all, and use composite. Yes, I know this should not happen. But it does. With pin 8 left bare, and resistor to 16, it should go into RGB with default mode, right? But so many TVs just fail and use composite. I have no clue why this happens because it doesn't follow SCART standard.

The best way to fix it is a circuit to double voltage up to 10 DC. This adds more expense to the cables for a feature that a lot of people can't use, mind. Well you won't get dead on 10DC, it'll have some voltage drop. Get it over 9.5V consistently though, there's the trick.

[Hamburglar]

I got him to remove that feedback.

As for the XRGB-3, it has a better track record than the Mini with sync, and while I've had somebody with a Mini report issues with that setup, if you want to buy the sync cable I have for Genesis 2 and try it, at the worst it gives me more info about compatibility to put in the listing so go ahead. I don't really have issues with XRGB owners who come across a problem. I only seem to get major issues from people who don't understand what I'm selling at all, are completely new to this.

To be honest that "You broke my console" neg is a worst nightmare for cable sellers, I saw it on a competitor's feedback and actually felt sorry for him. Can a cable break a console? Well sure, for example the 5V line is damn close to the ground shielding in the plug. That's why I use heat shrink and test everything first. If anyone's console breaks, it'd mine first. But no, I don't believe I'm that inept at soldering to manage it anyway, I never have.

It is really hard to convince some buyers of this, as it is hard to convince them their upscaler might not like the console, or their TV isn't taking the 240p component signal (oh god is this one a common one, and why I push VGA scalers instead). As I've said to my husband, people want to blame the cheapest part of their setup, they want desperately to believe that the console/TV/upscaler isn't the issue because that means dealing with the person who sold them a much more expensive piece of equipment. I can honestly understand that sort of mentality. I daresay I see a lot more "Item I received is not as described" than most people on eBay, it's a headache but usually people are receptive.

I can't even begin to imagine the headache of selling RGB SCART cables on eBay. I consider myself a pretty big A/V and computer (and classic video game) nerd but even I have been confused to hell and back with SCART cables. However, I would never think to hound someone who sold me a $16 cable. I'd just search for the damn problem myself, especially since I know how confusing it is and that more than likely it's a problem with 1 of the 20 things needed in my setup to get SCART working, and the cable itself being one of them is least likely the culprit.

Have you considered just putting a huge FAQ/readme in every one of your auctions? A type of thing like "don't buy this SNES RGB SCART cable to plug into your N64 and expect it to work, if you don't know what composite sync is do not bid, if you don't have an upscaler and live in USA do not bid, the Genesis 1 and 32x output ugly jailbars on RGB SCART" and so forth? Should save you a lot of time. You might get a few less buyers, but those were going to be from people who didn't know that stuff and were going to hound you anyway.

[Retro Access]

Have you considered just putting a huge FAQ/readme in every one of your auctions? A type of thing like "don't buy this SNES RGB SCART cable to plug into your N64 and expect it to work, if you don't know what composite sync is do not bid, if you don't have an upscaler and live in USA do not bid, the Genesis 1 and 32x output ugly jailbars on RGB SCART" and so forth? Should save you a lot of time. You might get a few less buyers, but those were going to be from people who didn't know that stuff and were going to hound you anyway.

I marvel more at the people selling those component converters. Nowhere in the listing does it say it doesn't upscale. Nowhere does it say it's not compatible with a large amount of TVs. Heck, I bought one and it didn't work on my TV with older electronics.

Yet you look at their feedback and they are "top rated" and no complaints.

I can only assume I'm getting the fallout from that. Though most people with the 240p issue just disappear after I tell them it's the converter. Thing is the question is in my auto answers. Nobody reads the auto answers even though eBay try to force people to read them before sending a message.

My listings are already chock full of explanations so I can only assume nobody reads it.

See this: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... RK:MESE:IT

"Read description to get $5 off."

So many people were buying that not knowing what it was. So I put the $5 off thing in to make people read it.

50% of people nevertheless buy it and don't tell me what they own, and don't even ask for the $5 off. So the $5 is kind of a service charge for covering all the handholding I have to do with those people.

Sometimes it's really easy too. I got $5 extra off one guy who didn't read the listing, just for telling him to plug in the power cord.

I've been selling on eBay for 12 years. It has got more dangerous year on year.

A buyer can damage you via a negative, a neutral, a Paypal chargeback (get 3 to lose TRS, get 6 and go below standard and potentially get kicked off) an eBay case (ditto) a low star in the feedback (get 0.5% - just 3 for me to lose TRS, 2% to go below standard) only two buyers are required to screw you over too, eBay won't let you lose your standards rating if one buyer buys loads of items and dings your star on all of them, but if JUST ONE MORE BUYER knocks your stars on one more thing, eBay count them all. Everyone selling on eBay is in danger of this, even a massive seller, because anyone could buy like 100 $1 items and finish them with the star ratings. It's really stupid, but it's the best source of revenue sadly.

I get more questions then I get sales. eBay even warned me about that, because they hate their bandwidth getting used for this. Yet they banned sellers from displaying their email address a couple months ago, because they are so paranoid of potential off ebay sales which have to be really low, given buyers know very well they have you over a barrel on eBay and so it's super safe to buy there.

[BuckoA51]

Having sold to the public over the web I'm glad I sidestepped E-bay. Recently I got someone threatening to sue me, the reason, she ordered something with USPS shipping (all my dvd's are shipped from the US), thinking it said UPS and, since it didn't arrive next day, she wanted her money back. She even got my name wrong, in three e-mails despite me signing it correctly of course

For anyone who doesn't know btw, its exceptionally easy to set up your own website and sell with something like e-junkie, cutting out e-bay altogether. The hard thing is standing out of course, but for specific things many people will just Google round anyway.

[mrsmiley381]

So, Retro Access, it turns out I have that very same EGA/VGA converter. It most certainly does work with my VGA monitors. Does that "$5 off if you read the description" cable have a fix applied to make it "Genesis 1 compatible" as you have it listed? Apparently a Genesis 1 freaks out and makes massive jailbars without a resistor or capacitor or something on its sync line.

My point is that by making this thread you might be getting some of my business, because I really want my Genesis to make pretty pictures.

[Retro Access]

Well the sync stripper IC I originally used in these cables did not work with Genesis 1, I changed it and the new one does.

If you are using a raw sync cable for Genesis 1 you still need at least the capacitor. With that setup, the sync stripper cable will work. A pure sync cable for Genesis 1 should always have at least a capacitor in it. If not, you need to either put the capacitor in or replace the cable itself. I don't put the capacitor in the sync stripper, no. It should be in your SCART cable.

You only need a capacitor in your sync based Genesis cable to work with this setup. It works with the resistor+capacitor based cable too.

My guess is you may have a composite as sync based cable, yes that does not need a capacitor. A sync based cable does though, and does not suffer from jailbars.

[mrsmiley381]

Well the sync stripper IC I originally used in these cables did not work with Genesis 1, I changed it and the new one does.

If you are using a raw sync cable for Genesis 1 you still need at least the capacitor. With that setup, the sync stripper cable will work. A pure sync cable for Genesis 1 should always have at least a capacitor in it. If not, you need to either put the capacitor in or replace the cable itself. I don't put the capacitor in the sync stripper, no. It should be in your SCART cable.

You only need a capacitor in your sync based Genesis cable to work with this setup. It works with the resistor+capacitor based cable too.

My guess is you may have a composite as sync based cable, yes that does not need a capacitor. A sync based cable does though, and does not suffer from jailbars.

My research indicates that a sync stripper is basically what the Sync Strike is, but correct me if I'm wrong. So buying that cable would save me shipping from Europe. It's getting more tempting.

I actually don't have an RGB cable for my Genesis; I was hoping to grab one from you if I got the answers I needed. Are your cables composite sync? I can always do the mod if not.

It's too bad eBay does not have a way for you to better show buyer-seller relationships aside from the feedback system. A thread like this answering questions and trying to solve problems speaks more to me than your feedback rating.

[Rock Man]

Not sure if this helps... if true it may come in handy for Sega Genesis Model 1 & 32X at least.

I was told Genesis 1 needs sync pulled from both the patch cable and the RGB cable. The patch cable barring pin 2 (5volt line), on the other hand the RGB SCART lead enables composite/sync at pin 4 followed by CSYNC on pin 5. This is supposed to kill jailbars created by the 32X. Then again I'm unsure how reliable my source is, I could be wrong.

[Retro Access]

Not sure if this helps... if true it may come in handy for Sega Genesis Model 1 & 32X at least.

I was told Genesis 1 needs sync pulled from both the patch cable and the RGB cable. The patch cable barring pin 2 (5volt line), on the other hand the RGB SCART lead enables composite/sync at pin 4 followed by CSYNC on pin 5. This is supposed to kill jailbars created by the 32X. Then again I'm unsure how reliable my source is, I could be wrong.

Your source is right but sync based cables are wired that way anyway. You can't get sync from any other pin.

[Rock Man]

Not sure if this helps... if true it may come in handy for Sega Genesis Model 1 & 32X at least.

I was told Genesis 1 needs sync pulled from both the patch cable and the RGB cable. The patch cable barring pin 2 (5volt line), on the other hand the RGB SCART lead enables composite/sync at pin 4 followed by CSYNC on pin 5. This is supposed to kill jailbars created by the 32X. Then again I'm unsure how reliable my source is, I could be wrong.

Your source is right but sync based cables are wired that way anyway. You can't get sync from any other pin.

I wasn't asking if I could get sync from another pin... I was essentially confirming if this was the answer to the 32X on MD1 interference debacle. I'm happy to see you agree on this method. I found someone who can do the mod, there maybe hope for my Genesis 1 yet!

[mrsmiley381]

I'm not sure I understand what I've been told. An electronics source, mod guide, or a list of cables that I have to weave would probably help.

If I can get my Genesis 1 to look damn fine on my LCD using some equipment I already have it would be quite nice.

[Retro Access]

Well basically all you need is the RGBS to VGA cable plus the Genesis 1 SCART lead (request that I wire it for sync.) Plus your power supply for the RGBS to VGA board.

[mrsmiley381]

So I think I've got this straight now.

I have the VGA converter. To grab RGB and make it work from my consoles I need a Sync Strike or your patch cable. I can throw on an SLG circuit before plugging it into a VGA device if I want. I'm well aware of how to power these devices, so that's a non-issue. So this end is pretty good.

My SNES, Saturn, and PS2 (barring finicky games) should work on this with regular SCART leads from you. If I want N64 RGB I need a console mod and potentially an RGB signal boosting mod, but I'm not really planning to do this just for WWF No Mercy. Dreamcast is all VGA and like one or two games that need an alternative. I'll ignore that mess all together because you don't have it listed as compatible, which is fine.

The Genesis 1 is apparently the bizarre console. According to MMMonkey the Genesis was wired wrong from the start. He talks about how using a Genesis (technically a Mega Drive in his case) on a HDTV won't sync properly without this fix. Does this fix also handle the supposed jail bar issue? If so, I'd like to get a cable that would best work with this setup. I'm starting to lose track of what resistors and capacitors are being put on what pins and at what point in the wiring chain at this point.

If the Genesis ends up being a complete pain in the ass I'll still probably want Saturn and SNES leads at the very least. Answering my questions is like a bizarre investment, really!
At least I hope so.

[BuckoA51]

I can throw on an SLG circuit before plugging it into a VGA device if I want.

The SLG needs to be AFTER the upscaling in the chain, else it'll just look weird.

The Genesis 1 is apparently the bizarre console. According to MMMonkey the Genesis was wired wrong from the start. He talks about how using a Genesis (technically a Mega Drive in his case) on a HDTV won't sync properly without this fix. Does this fix also handle the supposed jail bar issue?

It certainly helps with it, though it's not guaranteed to solve it 100%. Apparently, the same fix can be done inside a cable too, without modding the MD/Genesis but I'm not that technical with electrics to understand exactly how that works.

[mrsmiley381]

I can throw on an SLG circuit before plugging it into a VGA device if I want.

The SLG needs to be AFTER the upscaling in the chain, else it'll just look weird.

The Genesis 1 is apparently the bizarre console. According to MMMonkey the Genesis was wired wrong from the start. He talks about how using a Genesis (technically a Mega Drive in his case) on a HDTV won't sync properly without this fix. Does this fix also handle the supposed jail bar issue?

It certainly helps with it, though it's not guaranteed to solve it 100%. Apparently, the same fix can be done inside a cable too, without modding the MD/Genesis but I'm not that technical with electrics to understand exactly how that works.

That's precisely what I meant about an SLG circuit. I can throw the SLG circuit in or just not use it before hooking the whole thing up to a VGA device. Though now I'd like to see what kind of monstrosity that would create.

The Genesis fix suggested by MMMonky shows that the CSync-out pin is actually connect to the wrong leg of one of the video chips, so I think doing the mod inside a cable would not actually be properly effective if I am not mistaken.

[Retro Access]

I can confirm that mod is not needed for this particular scaler. It works fine with what I am assuming is unbuffered sync from the existing output. It's just certain scalers and TVs that don't like it, the RGBS to VGA scaler works fine however.

edit: A sync buffer should fix it inside the cable itself, but it is not needed for this board.

[Rock Man]

Well basically all you need is the RGBS to VGA cable plus the Genesis 1 SCART lead (request that I wire it for sync.) Plus your power supply for the RGBS to VGA board.

My friend uses that green exposed motherboard (EGA/CGA/YUV/blah-blah-blah to VGA converter) and he has a 32X & Genesis 1. Would a Model 2 CSYNC cable and this RGBS/VGA convert cable, be able to work on his Genesis Model 1 + 32X set-up?

[Retro Access]

Well basically all you need is the RGBS to VGA cable plus the Genesis 1 SCART lead (request that I wire it for sync.) Plus your power supply for the RGBS to VGA board.

My friend has the exposed motherboard (EGA/CGA/YUV/blah-blah-blah to VGA adapter) and he uses a 32X. Would a Model 2 CSYNC cable and this RGBS/VGA convert cable, be able to work on his Genesis Model 1 + 32X set-up?

I'll have an answer for this soon, I need to build another adaptor. I have the US Genesis and 32X to test this setup on.

I can now confirm the 32X is outputting a weaker signal than Genesis 2 by itself.

Works on RGB>YUV converter, doesn't work on XRGB Mini. Remains to be seen if it works on RGBS>VGA board.

edit: You should be aware though I have not yet built the buffer for 32X I was telling you about. If I can get it working on the Mini you can assume it will work on XRGB3. It probably works unbuffered on RGBS>VGA board, but I need to check that.

[Rock Man]

Cool, let us know how the experiment goes.