The future of shmups on the PS3

[Elixir]

PS3 has some games.

Seriously though, go play Ar tonelico III and Demon's Souls. The PS3 has games but they're not shmups.

[Cuilan]

...and PS3 for fighting games (service is free and the machine itself is region free)

If we want to get really technical, a J360 is a better console for fighters than the PS3 is. The J360 has way more vs fighters with online play than the PS3 does, and has more vs fighters in general. The disadvantages are that XBL Gold isn't free and that the 360 uses proprietary controllers. If someone already has a J360 and arcade sticks for the 360, the only issues becomes XBL Gold.

Back on topic : I personally don't expect more shooters to show up on the PS3 any time soon. Except maybe a port of Strike Witches, since I'm sure Gulti and Cyberfront will want to squeeze a few more sales out of it (much like Mamoru-kun).

[apple arcade]

^^^Only an issue if they want to keep the same gamertag. You can get several, free month trials by making new profiles on the same 360.

...and yea, ever fighter that is on PS3 is also on 360 but with more 360 exclusives on the way. such as phantom breaker and that umineko spin off.

[stryc9]

I wouldn't say there were way more fighters. All the top fighting games are on both systems aren't they? And I'm not sure Phantom Breaker really counts cos its kinda... lame

But ultimately if you have compatible sticks then of course 360 is the Arcade port console. I was really only illustrating my own situation here.

Back on topic: PS3 Shmup library is ratshit and isn't looking to improve anytime soon, so start saving for that 360 if your serious about these games - otherwise your missing out

[Cuilan]

I wouldn't say there were way more fighters. All the top fighting games are on both systems aren't they?

360 has :

Dead or Alive 4
Virtua Fighter 5 with online play
Neo Geo Battle Coliseum
Fatal Fury Special
Samurai Shodown 2
Garou MotW
KOF 98 UM
KOF 2002 UM
Samurai Shodown Sen

Plus those two upcoming games Apple Arcade mentioned.

And if they can be counted as fighters, the two Senko no Ronde games.

[stryc9]

I wouldn't say there were way more fighters. All the top fighting games are on both systems aren't they?

360 has :

Dead or Alive 4
Virtua Fighter 5 with online play
Neo Geo Battle Coliseum
Fatal Fury Special
Samurai Shodown 2
Garou MotW
KOF 98 UM
KOF 2002 UM
Samurai Shodown Sen

Plus those two upcoming games Apple Arcade mentioned.

And if they can be counted as fighters, the two Senko no Ronde games.

I actually have not played Senko no Ronde, but by the looks of it its less like a fighter than even Virtual On, though feel free to correct me.

All the SNK games you mentioned are already on PS2 with excellent cover art in the form of the Neo Geo Online collection an if you are serious about fighters wouldn't you own them already? The filters are not great on the 360 versions, PS2 Fatal Fury series runs in true 240p ect. Samurai Shodown Sen reportedly sucks and does anyone care about Dead or Alive's Janken style counter system anymore?

We've gone off topic a bit here but I'm not sure theres a whole lot more to say about it....

[Last_Dancer]

...and yea, ever fighter that is on PS3 is also on 360 but with more 360 exclusives on the way. such as phantom breaker and that umineko spin off.

Yeah, sure, whatever

You ignor the huge list of download Shmups for PS3, but your list includes the download beatemups for the 360, thats not fair

PS3 got something called NeoGeo Station, old SNK Games for download only, no such thing on 360.

Xbox360 is for West-games and, oddly enough. Shmups, PS3 is for everything else, including BeatemUps, theres more competition on PSN because all japanese players own a PS3 and not an Xbox360.

My question? Why is the BeatemUp Genre healty and alive, and why is the Shmup-genre almost dead? Answer: multiplatform, just like in the old 16Bit, PSX-Saturn, Dreamcast/PS2 era, multiplatform is the key to success.
No future for a genre on a console so niche, you cannot even call the 360 a niche console in Japan LOL

[Skykid]

you cannot even call the 360 a niche console in Japan LOL

Yes you can.

[Elixir]

My question? Why is the BeatemUp Genre healty and alive, and why is the Shmup-genre almost dead?

Retail releases:

• Shikigami no Shiro III - Dec 12, 2007
• Raiden Fighters Aces - Mar 25, 2008
• Raiden IV - Sep 30, 2008
• Otomedius Gorgeous - Nov 19, 2008
• Dodonpachi Daioujou Black Label Extra - Feb 19, 2009
• Shooting Love 200X - Feb 19, 2009
• Death Smiles - Apr 24, 2009
• Mamoru-kun wa Norowarete Shimatta - Jun 25, 2009
• Raiden Fighters Aces - Nov 19, 2009 (Games on Demand)
• Mushihimesama Futari - Nov 26, 2009 *
• Raiden IV - Jan 14, 2010 (Games on Demand)
• Shooting Love 200X - Feb 14, 2010 (Games on Demand)
• ESPGaluda II - Feb 25, 2010 *
• Otomedius Gorgeous (Platinum Collection) - March 11, 2010
• Deathsmiles (Platinum Collection) - April 8, 2010
• Ketsui - Apr 22, 2010
• Death Smiles II X - May 27, 2010
• Mamoru-kun wa Norowarete Shimatta - Jun 29, 2010 (Games on Demand)
• Strike Witches Shirogane no Tsubasa - July 29, 2010
• Otomedius Gorgeous - Oct 6, 2010 (Games on Demand)
• Radirgy Noah - Oct 28, 2010
• Mushihimesama Futari (Platinum Collection) - Nov 11, 2010 *
• Dodonpachi Daifukkatsu - Nov 25, 2010
• Dodonpachi Daifukkatsu: Black Label - Feb 3, 2011
• Muchi Muchi Pork & Pink Sweets - February 24, 2011 *
• Bullet Soul - April 7, 2011 *
• Eschatos - April 7, 2011 *
• Otomedius Excellent - April 21, 2011
• ESPGaluda II (Platinum Collection) - April 28, 2011 *

XBLA (Xbox Live Arcade) releases:

• Aegis Wing - 2007 (US Marketplace only)
• Ikaruga - 2008
• Triggerheart Excelica - 2008
• Omega Five - 2008
• R-Type Dimensions - 2009
• Raystorm HD - 2010
• Space Invaders: Infinity Gene - 2010
• King of Fighters: Sky Stage - 2010
• Guwange - 2010
• Strania - 2011
• Trouble Witches Neo - 2011
• Bangai-O: Missile Fury - 2011

Upcoming:

• Akai Katana - May 26, 2011
• Dangun Feveron XBLA - TBA 2011
• Radiant Silvergun XBLA - TBA 2011

Dead, right?

No future for a genre on a console so niche

Look at your posting history. Isn't it sad? You're misinformed and have no clue of the current situation concerning this genre.

At one point I did consider making a Japanese PS3 guide, but considering there's less than 5 PSN shmups and a bunch of re-release from PS1 (with horrible emulation) and PC-Engine, it'd be a waste of time.

[cj iwakura]

Rockin' Android are trying, but the doujin shmups on the PSN are mediocre at best.


360 is just murdering them, even in the US with Trouble Witches and Deathsmiles.


As a devout PS3 owner, this makes me quite annoyed.

[Cuilan]

I actually have not played Senko no Ronde, but by the looks of it its less like a fighter than even Virtual On, though feel free to correct me.

All the SNK games you mentioned are already on PS2 with excellent cover art in the form of the Neo Geo Online collection an if you are serious about fighters wouldn't you own them already? The filters are not great on the 360 versions, PS2 Fatal Fury series runs in true 240p ect. Samurai Shodown Sen reportedly sucks and does anyone care about Dead or Alive's Janken style counter system anymore?

We've gone off topic a bit here but I'm not sure theres a whole lot more to say about it....

Senko no Ronde features "special moves" with input commands similar to those found in 2D fighters, and these moves consume a portion of the power meter when used (again, like a 2D fighter). Melee attacks are also a bit more complex than they are in Virtual On.

As for the SNK games, the difference is that the 360 versions have online play and the PS2 ones don't (unless you live in Japan). I would imagine that such a feature would be of great value to someone who is serious about vs fighters.

[originalz]

Rockin' Android are trying, but the doujin shmups on the PSN are mediocre at best.


360 is just murdering them, even in the US with Trouble Witches and Deathsmiles.


As a devout PS3 owner, this makes me quite annoyed.

God forbid you actually buy a system with games you want to play...but I suppose that would be admitting defeat to M(dollar sign), can't let that happen eh!

[neorichieb1971]

Success and quality don't necessarily go hand in hand in retail. Although I would never touch an Xbox360 I do acknowledge it has some great shooters on it.

As for the PS3, it has no future at all. After the debacle of these past 2 weeks I would be surprised if 50% of the PSN users resign a new contract to go online. I am not anti Sony either, I have 2 PS3's and love them to bits. Unfortunately the people that made them, I have a lot less love for.

[cj iwakura]

Rockin' Android are trying, but the doujin shmups on the PSN are mediocre at best.


360 is just murdering them, even in the US with Trouble Witches and Deathsmiles.


As a devout PS3 owner, this makes me quite annoyed.

God forbid you actually buy a system with games you want to play...but I suppose that would be admitting defeat to M(dollar sign), can't let that happen eh!

Don't get me wrong, I will get a 360 eventually.


Doesn't mean I have to like it.

[Kaiser]

Honestly what can't people get to their heads, PS3 owners is. Is that the reason JRPGs (which went to handhelds btw) and shmups are lacking on ps3, it's because of extremely high development costs for niche developers and lack of proper devkits. Not to mention it's pain in the fucking ass to code for PS3 no matter how you look at it, if this was x86, it would be an other story. So simply, PS3 owner, get it to your head that jrpg will not come back on ps3 full force, it's a genre that will stay 90% on handhelds even next-gen of consoles, same with shmups, get it to your head because they won't come on ps3.

Well that's about it for my opinion and before you ask, I am a PS3 owner myself but I am not blind enough to not see what genre went where. JRPGs and shmups are far from dead, they're just on least expected platforms for a consumer like us.

[whoozwah]

well yeah. Enjoy what's there and don't be bummed about what's not.

[apple arcade]

Wait, let me get this stright. You think a game that isn't even out yet is lame so it doesn't count?

I find soul calibur, mortal kombat, virtual fighter, and tekken lame. Does this mean they're not fighting games?


Also, I probably spent 6-7 hours just playing the phantom breaker demo. It's not the next guilty gear or 3rd strike but i found it fun.

[stryc9]

Wait, let me get this stright. You think a game that isn't even out yet is lame so it doesn't count?

I find soul calibur, mortal kombat, virtual fighter, and tekken lame. Does this mean they're not fighting games?


Also, I probably spent 6-7 hours just playing the phantom breaker demo. It's not the next guilty gear or 3rd strike but i found it fun.

I have not played enough of the demo to really call it lame just yet I suppose, but things didn't look to good for it. I can't imagine I will buy another fighter until Arcade Edition drops though (and I'll be getting the PS3 version), too busy with 360 shooters

Mortal Kombat is lame full stop, no arguments there (and this includes the new one), but to say those other titles are is a bit silly. Virtua Fighter lame, cmon are you serious? You just don't like them is all.

Anyway, at risk of getting back on topic: THERE IS NO FUTURE...

(....for shmups on PS3)

[cj iwakura]

Shmups on PS3 aren't dead. Rockin' Android have plans.


They just need better quality control in what they pick.


Also, if they pick some REAL PS1 classics, it could be golden.

[Kollision]

PS1 games on the PS3 do not count.

I do enjoy its small offering, but the PS3 pretty much sucks shmup wise.

[Last_Dancer]

Honestly what can't people get to their heads, PS3 owners is. Is that the reason JRPGs (which went to handhelds btw) and shmups are lacking on ps3, it's because of extremely high development costs for niche developers and lack of proper devkits.

Lame excuse, Compile Heart, Gust and other so called Niche-developers are fine on PS3,

Dead, right?

Yes, dead, because only available on THE Otaku-console, being called an Otaku in Japan is not a compliment

If you like sales, Famitsu sales Top 1000 2010

381. [360] DeathSmiles IIX: Hell's Christmas (Cave) {2010.05.27} - 22.694 / 22.694
439. [360] Ketsui: Kizuna Jigoku Tachi Extra (5pb.) {2010.04.22} - 17.951 / 17.951
472. [360] Espgaluda II: Black Label (Cave) {2010.02.25} - 16.442 / 16.442
585. [360] Strike Witches: Shirogane no Tsubasa (CyberFront) {2010.07.29} - 12.187 / 12.187
609. [360] WarTech: Senko no Ronde Duo (Grev Ltd.) {2010.05.20} - 11.484 / 11.484
622. [360] DoDonPachi Resurrection (Cave) {2010.11.25} - 10.902 / 10.902
915. [360] DeathSmiles [Platinum Collection] (Cave) {2010.04.08} - 5.616 / 5.616

compared to fighting genre on PS3:

069. [PS3] Super Street Fighter IV (Capcom) {2010.04.28} - 167.242 / 167.242
148. [PS3] BlazBlue: Continuum Shift (Arc System Works) {2010.07.01} - 76.150 / 76.150

RPG Genre on PS3
058. [PS3] Resonance of Fate (Sega) {2010.01.28} - 196.329 / 196.329
036. [PS3] Tales of Graces F (Bandai Namco) {2010.12.02} - 307.812 / 307.812
217. [PS3] Hyperdimension Neptunia (Compile Heart) {2010.08.19} - 47.118 / 47.118

RPG Genre on 360
242. [360] Resonance of Fate (Sega) {2010.01.28} - 41.414 / 41.414
399. [360] NieR Gestalt (Square Enix) {2010.04.22} - 21.011 / 21.011
666. [360] Front Mission: Evolved (Square Enix) {2010.09.16} - 9.948 / 9.948

Ports, 1 year later, bad quality, just like Mamoru:

[360] Final Fantasy XIII: International [Ultimate Hits] (Square Enix) {2010.12.16} - 18.639 / 18.639

No multiplatform shmups = stupid buisiness decision, that's the truth, accept it, larger userbase>>>more customers>>more sales>>more$$$$, look at Vesperia, Graces etc.

Whenever I look at my shitty japanese 360, with horrible Controller and simply awful design, I think of Homer Simpson sitting in the power plant looking at the plaque " Do it for her", in my case, "Do it for CAVE"

[DragonInstall]

Blah Blah

Blah Blah

[Elixir]

Yes, dead, because only available on THE Otaku-console, being called an Otaku in Japan is not a compliment

Oh no! Someone might call me a... nerd....

If you like sales, Famitsu sales Top 1000 2010

381. [360] DeathSmiles IIX: Hell's Christmas (Cave) {2010.05.27} - 22.694 / 22.694
439. [360] Ketsui: Kizuna Jigoku Tachi Extra (5pb.) {2010.04.22} - 17.951 / 17.951
472. [360] Espgaluda II: Black Label (Cave) {2010.02.25} - 16.442 / 16.442
585. [360] Strike Witches: Shirogane no Tsubasa (CyberFront) {2010.07.29} - 12.187 / 12.187
609. [360] WarTech: Senko no Ronde Duo (Grev Ltd.) {2010.05.20} - 11.484 / 11.484
622. [360] DoDonPachi Resurrection (Cave) {2010.11.25} - 10.902 / 10.902
915. [360] DeathSmiles [Platinum Collection] (Cave) {2010.04.08} - 5.616 / 5.616

Thanks. Now let's go back to what you originally said,

"My question? Why is the BeatemUp Genre healty and alive, and why is the Shmup-genre almost dead?"

7 shmups in a year is hardly a "dead genre". And this is not including XBLA, iPhone, Wii, and PC shmups that were released in 2010 as well.

compared to fighting genre on PS3:

069. [PS3] Super Street Fighter IV (Capcom) {2010.04.28} - 167.242 / 167.242
148. [PS3] BlazBlue: Continuum Shift (Arc System Works) {2010.07.01} - 76.150 / 76.150

Yes, because Japanese typically have PS3s before 360s. Sony is a Japanese company, and has Japanese companies making Japanese games for Japanese consumers. I'm not surprised.

RPG Genre on PS3
058. [PS3] Resonance of Fate (Sega) {2010.01.28} - 196.329 / 196.329
036. [PS3] Tales of Graces F (Bandai Namco) {2010.12.02} - 307.812 / 307.812
217. [PS3] Hyperdimension Neptunia (Compile Heart) {2010.08.19} - 47.118 / 47.118

RPG Genre on 360
242. [360] Resonance of Fate (Sega) {2010.01.28} - 41.414 / 41.414
399. [360] NieR Gestalt (Square Enix) {2010.04.22} - 21.011 / 21.011

As above, but this has nothing to do with shmups. It's not like these games are console exclusive stuff (besides Graces and Neptune, and Neptune's an awful game).

Oh, also,

RPG Genre on 360
666. [360] Front Mission: Evolved (Square Enix) {2010.09.16} - 9.948 / 9.948

From Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Front_Mission_Evolved

"Front Mission Evolved (フロントミッション エボルヴ Furonto Misshon Eboruvu?) is a third-person shooter video game developed by"

But nice try.

Ports, 1 year later, bad quality, just like Mamoru:

[360] Final Fantasy XIII: International [Ultimate Hits] (Square Enix) {2010.12.16} - 18.639 / 18.639

Um, the English 360 version was released simultaneously with the English PS3 version. The 360 version was obviously created for the western audience, especially since it was region-locked. 18,000 sales is pretty good for a year-old, budget-priced game. But still. This isn't a good example.

No multiplatform shmups = stupid buisiness decision, that's the truth, accept it, larger userbase>>>more customers>>more sales>>more$$$$, look at Vesperia, Graces etc.

Comparing shmups to mainstream jRPGs is really not a good idea. Vesperia sold like shit in the west, which is why the PS3 version wasn't localized. Only after continual requests did Namco decide to announce localization for Graces earlier this year. Namco want big, blockbuster-like sales for the western market. So what you're saying is... Japanese RPGs, for a Japanese console, are doing well in Japan? No shit. Do you think any shmup would sell anywhere near the same amount as a Tales game, even if it were multi-platform, even if you added both console figures together? No.

Whenever I look at my shitty japanese 360, with horrible Controller and simply awful design, I think of Homer Simpson sitting in the power plant looking at the plaque " Do it for her", in my case, "Do it for CAVE"

Whenever I look at your posts I want to throw some bowel movements. Why don't you post something constructive instead of piecing random, loosely related material together to create a fanboyish, flawed, and blatantly incorrect counter-argument?

[apple arcade]

Blah Blah

Blah Blah

I agree.

Say you have a pitcher of lemonade that you're selling and there is 100 cups.
Now say you have a pitcher of koolaid that you're selling and there is 1000 cups.

Which will you sell more of?

Your whole sales number arguement is garbage. This thread is about how there is no shmups on the PS3.

...Besides, I don't know about you but I've never enjoyed a game more because a million other people also bought it.

By your logic, CALL OF DUTY & GRAND THEFT AUTO would be everyone's favorite game, including "niche-OTAKU"

[Phellan Wolf]

So I have started to read this topic since the first post and then a question came to my mind: is really this discussion going anywhere???

[Snake]

I've owned a PS3 and a 360. I never played shmups on either of them because I have a PC.

[apple arcade]

Oh BTW

Compare FFXIII International to say the Japanese release of Mass Effect 2?

...do you see the flaw in your logic?

[originalz]

It's not like shooters were exactly moving like crazy on the PS2 back in the day either...

[cj iwakura]

It's not like shooters were exactly moving like crazy on the PS2 back in the day either...

PS2 had tons of amazing shmups, though. Taito Legends 2 alone offers lots of them, not to mention Shiki 1 & 2, Silpheed, Rez(sorta), etc.

[BulletMagnet]

The PS2 was EASILY the primo shmup machine of its generation: one of the best of all time in that department, in my personal opinion.