Thinking of buying a Sega Saturn soon...

[Jeneki]

Whoa, even Gun Frontier is more expensive than Sonic Wings Special. Is the former actually that rare, or is it the fame of proto-Garegga working here? Also, I see Gradius and Parodius Deluxe Packs at relatively low prices. Doubt you'll find worthwile Saturn shmups cheaper on eBay.

It is? Hmm, I picked up Gun Frontier rather cheap last year. I think there's more than one release of this game, perhaps one is "rare" or whatever.

[borislaw]

3: Is DonPachi still worth picking up? everyone's saying that DoDonPachi is THE shmup everyone should play at least once, but I don't hear much about the original, which naturally makes it all the more intriguing to me.

For me there is quite a large gap between DoDonPachi and the original DonPachi. I'm not really all that fond of the later. I like CAve Shooters, so DonPachi initially seemed like a no brainier. But frankly I just didn't enjoy playing DonPachi, which seemed to me to play more like a Toaplan shooter than a Cave.

4: If I didn't like any of the previous Thunder Force games, will 5 be any different? I feel somewhat obligated to show some appreciation towards the series, what with how well-loved it is and all, but I don't feel anything other than apathy... :|

Thunder Force 5 does feel to play more than a little different. Graphically, there is almost no link. Level design is similar, but the general feel, especially concerning the use of weapons and the general destruction of enemies. Its not perfect though. I would say that gameplay gets better from 4 to 5, but Graphics get worse--the trashy and hard-to-clearly-see polygon-based graphics may be fine with some people but for me they really do ruin the game.

[Herr Schatten]

Before I do thou

1: Is the Saturn version of In The Hunt as bad as I hear? should I just track down the PSX long box instead?

Personally, I didn't get much enjoyment out of In The Hunt, but that's not down to the Saturn version in particular. IMO, the game just sucks ass regardless of format. It looks amazing, though, so you might be able to get something out of that. In any case, I wouldn't bother with the Saturn version, as it adds extra slowdown to an already slow game. Feels like swimming through a pool full of syrup, really.

3: Is DonPachi still worth picking up? everyone's saying that DoDonPachi is THE shmup everyone should play at least once, but I don't hear much about the original, which naturally makes it all the more intriguing to me.

DonPachi is a very fine game. The Saturn version has some slowdown, but this time it doesn't really subtract from the fun. If you like your shooting games more oldschool, and you dig the Toaplan vibe, DP is the game for you. You should definitely get DDP too, though. The PS version is preferrable, but the Saturn version plays perfectly fine, as neither the pixelated explosions nor the garbled sound have any influence on the actual gameplay.

4: If I didn't like any of the previous Thunder Force games, will 5 be any different? I feel somewhat obligated to show some appreciation towards the series, what with how well-loved it is and all, but I don't feel anything other than apathy...

TFV is fun, although the graphics haven't aged well. The difficulty curve is also somewhat off. Most people who like Thunder Force IV seem to hate TFV, and vice versa, so if you didn't like TFIV, chances are good you'll like TFV.

I second the earlier suggestion to get Sonic Wings Special. It's cheap and there's tons of replayability.

[toaplan_shmupfan]

half the weapons feel like throwaways, enemies give hardly any signal as to whether you're damaging them or not

For Thunder Force IV/Lightening Force? I don't agree. The only issue with that game is slowdown on the Mega Drive/Genesis and it's reportedly fixed for the Saturn.

• Twin Shot and Blade are perfect for full on damage, only Blade just doesn't work for small target areas like the Gargoyle Diver.
• Back Shot/Rail Gun are perfect for behind the back attacks while still providing a front shot--good for the small ships in the Daser stage that enter from behind, and definitely needed for the Stage 9 boss at the very start.
• Snake is quite usable in Ruin (to get the hidden shield), and especially in Stage 8 (to quickly get rid the crawling spiders on the walls that shoot bouncing shots, and especially to get of the boss tentacles.)
• Free Way is perfect for the stage 5 battleship, most of the time stay in one spot and take out every target below. Also works well for the tubes dropping robots in Stage 8. Also, if one chose stage select as Daser/Ruin/Air Raid/Strite, the final form of the Ruin boss can quickly be taken out with Free Way.
• Hunter is the boss weapon anytime the ship has shield left--take out most of stage 8 (even better than Snake) small spider enemies, except for the midbosses, plus take out all of Stage 9 except for the boss, and definitely needed for the Stage 10 final boss to quickly take out all the shots.

As for enemy damage, only the popcorn style enemies don't really flicker. Enemies get a small red fire-like indication with every successful hit vs. blue ring-like indications for an unsuccessful hit--I think it's good enough, even if many of them don't flicker when hit.

[BPzeBanshee]

For the record, some of the slowdown in TF IV was actually *intentionally* put in.

For example, the Stage 2 miniboss that shoots all those bullets that normally lag the screen? It runs fullspeed in Maniac difficulty mode. Figure that one out.

[man9child]

Just chiming in on the original Donpachi. I had Dodonpachi first, and initially was really disapointed with the original. It wasn't the game itself, but more the port quality. Very long loading times between levels, and iffy sound quality, as mentioned before.

Eventually though, I actually warmed up to the game and ended up preffering it to Dodonpachi. Your mileage may vary. Regardless, they're different enough on a basic level to warrant playing both.

[japshooterfan]

Answer to your questions 1. In the hunt on the saturn is completly rubbish not worth the cd it is printed on 2. Thunderforce 5 is without question in the top 5 greatest shooters of all time after sexy parodius, keiko flying squadron 2 battle garegga, radient silver gun. 3. donpachi has aged VERY badly not worth picking up

[toaplan_shmupfan]

For the record, some of the slowdown in TF IV was actually *intentionally* put in.

For example, the Stage 2 miniboss that shoots all those bullets that normally lag the screen? It runs fullspeed in Maniac difficulty mode. Figure that one out.
For the record, some of the slowdown in TF IV was actually *intentionally* put in.

For example, the Stage 2 miniboss that shoots all those bullets that normally lag the screen? It runs fullspeed in Maniac difficulty mode. Figure that one out.

It still lags even on Maniac, when playing on a Genesis console (not emulator) but not until after five bursts have already been fired and nowhere near the lag on Normal. That holds true with both robot minibosses, the very first one at the start of the level and the second one further into the level.

They clearly pushed the system past its limits graphically, then added quite the awesome soundtrack on top of all that and pushed the sound processor past its limits. Notice, for example, that the reverb in the soundtrack of Strite disappears when firing something like Blade, but then returns after about one measure bar when firing has stopped. Then then they obviously slowed the game down and reduced the enemies for the easier levels from Maniac. Given all that, it makes sense that slowdown when they've already slowed the game down would be that much more obvious.

[BPzeBanshee]

For the record, some of the slowdown in TF IV was actually *intentionally* put in.

For example, the Stage 2 miniboss that shoots all those bullets that normally lag the screen? It runs fullspeed in Maniac difficulty mode. Figure that one out.

It still lags even on Maniac, when playing on a Genesis console (not emulator) but not until after five bursts have already been fired and nowhere near the lag on Normal. That holds true with both robot minibosses, the very first one at the start of the level and the second one further into the level.

They clearly pushed the system past its limits graphically, then added quite the awesome soundtrack on top of all that and pushed the sound processor past its limits. Notice, for example, that the reverb in the soundtrack of Strite disappears when firing something like Blade, but then returns after about one measure bar when firing has stopped. Then then they obviously slowed the game down and reduced the enemies for the easier levels from Maniac. Given all that, it makes sense that slowdown when they've already slowed the game down would be that much more obvious.

Yeah, shortly after posting I spotted a YouTube video taken from what appeared to be a real Megadrive TV recording that showed some damn smooth and minor lag once a dozen bullets from the Colony subbosses showed up on the screen, it was quite a weird sight. I still believe that that behaviour should not have been removed in the Saturn port, and especially not the altering of the sound either.

Could it be possible that the specific slowdown I've seen and the lack of slowdown in emulators be due to NTSC/PAL conversion? I've noticed the emulator do unusual things in regards to the 50/60 hz stuff and TFIV is actually one of the few games that doesn't slow down nearly as much as other games when running on a PAL Megadrive (or so I'm told).

It's quite interesting seeing what's deliberate slowdown and what's just the *real* console maxing out. Even gameplay-wise the older Thunder Force games have some weird secrets in it that don't look fitting in to the series in retrospect but yet doesn't really affect your game when you play it. I discussed some of this in the Thunder Force IV Rebirth thread some time ago and it was then that I was brought aware to TF III's stupid Saber-and-CRAWS-on-Level-1 secret among other things.

[BuckoA51]

Regarding Cotton 2/Boomerang, it is Cotton 2 that makes use of the RAM cart though it's not a huge difference. I personally find that they play quite differently. I keep coming back to Cotton 2 more often due to its simple and rewarding chaining system that throws out heath, great for crappy players like me

The Saturn has a great library of exclusives, definitely worth owning one.