PGM High score saving and other modification suggestions

[trap15]

I have just completed a patch which turns Ketsui into Back Label. This patch is currently hardwired, meaning you'll still have to resolder to switch back and forth. I will try later to add a new test menu entry which enables or disables this.

[Sumez]

The format I would use is [player inputs (up, down, left right, A, B, C, D)][Frames (1-256)], 16-bit per "delta".

Is that actually how the ROM replay data (the one playing in demonstration mode) is saved?
Ie. raw recording of every input for every single frame.

[austere]

I haven't checked that yet, but I would imagine it would be similar. Note that it's not really every single frame that is recorded, there is a "run length".

meaning you'll still have to resolder to switch back and forth. I will try later to add a new test menu entry which enables or disables this.

There's actually no need to resolder, just a matter of slipping the EPROM out. Hell, they can desolder the connector and slip in a ZIF and then it's a matter of pushing a lever. It's best to wait until the service mode code is done though. I'll mark it off once I've tried it out.

[ケツイ]

Little question.
Those patches works only if they are applied on pcbs, or can be applied on Mame too?
Sorry for my ignorance

It would be great have re-arranged OST of Ketsui EX for Xbox 360 on both pcb and Mame if it is possible to do in some way

[emphatic]

If using save states work, how about implementing a STAGE SELECT for ESPGALUDA, and for DOJ/Ketsui: START AT LOOP and START AT DOOM / HIBACHI?

Imagine how cool to turn on the cabinet, press start, select your battle ship ship, then out of nowhere DOOM appears! People would shit bricks.

[yosai]

I think stage/loop select are already on the to do list just not in the OP.

It would be great have re-arranged OST of Ketsui EX for Xbox 360 on both pcb and Mame if it is possible to do in some way

I don't think this would be possible, at least for the PCB. The PGM games probably use a tracker playback of some sort and the x360 probably just plays back an audio file.

[cools]

I think stage/loop select are already on the to do list just not in the OP.

It would be great have re-arranged OST of Ketsui EX for Xbox 360 on both pcb and Mame if it is possible to do in some way

I don't think this would be possible, at least for the PCB. The PGM games probably use a tracker playback of some sort and the x360 probably just plays back an audio file.

They do, samples are all 8bit 16khz raw files IIRC (or was it 8khz?). Couldn't find any rippable playback data though so guess CAVE wrote their own player.

[yosai]

There's another project right there. PGM playback data/samples > XM.

[emphatic]

Just some crazy thoughts I had:

Ketsui:

Additional "arrange mode" with this mechanic:

Hold both A+C shot to raise rank (like DDP-DFK BL). At max rank (the voice ask you "are you ready?", everything fires like the second loop, but you get ONLY 5-chip (chip chain counter doesn't go down unless you let go of a shot button longer than 0.5 seconds). To use full auto at max rank, hold C and tap A. Only 1 loop, and to reach DOOM, a minimum of 300 million points (or whatever seems reasonable with the added 5-chip flow). Chip counter maxes out at 9999.

ESPGALUDA:

Additional "Garegga mode" with this mechanic:

No laser, only full auto (on A). B-button is Barrier bomb (no charging always quick release). Game is always in Kakusei overmode, red bullets, but bullets start out as fast as "regular" mode. Guard barrier shows rank increase. Suicide resets rank. Rank is increased by firing and extends without dying. All enemies drop gold ingots. Bombing cancels all shots into gold. After each bomb, the Kakusei circle appears around player, after 1 complete turn player is awarded another bomb. Extends awarded every 1 million points. Gold counter doesn't max out at 1000. Music only plays the drum parts of the original soundtrack.

[cools]

There's another project right there. PGM playback data/samples > XM.

Listen hard - I'm sure they're just four channels

[austere]

If using save states work, how about implementing a STAGE SELECT for ESPGALUDA, and for DOJ/Ketsui: START AT LOOP and START AT DOOM / HIBACHI?

That'll be part of "simulation mode" for DOJ, but I guess it's level select for the others. I guess one could add it to Ketsui in theory, the inter-level transitions make it a bit more difficult though. I will add it to the list anyway.

They do, samples are all 8bit 16khz raw files IIRC (or was it 8khz?). Couldn't find any rippable playback data though so guess CAVE wrote their own player.

Believe it or not but the sample rate of the ICS2115 can be varied between 44,100Hz and 33,075Hz. It uses a wavetable synth so obviously each sample is played at a different rate. In Ketsui they're 16-bit in length, but other games can use 8-bit u-Law samples.

You can check it out in the driver I wrote so far here in the function get_sample(): http://mamedev.org/source/src/emu/sound/ics2115.c.html. I didn't bother implementing the variable rate since all the games use 32 channels (thus run at 33,075Hz) and it might jitter if I change the sample rate by creating a new stream. Interpolation is used like it would probably be on a real device, but I have to test it once I can control ISA boards...

There's another project right there. PGM playback data/samples > XM.

Heh yeah, I've yet to look at the Z80 code but I eventually will. Before you can really do it though, the volume control on the ICS2115 needs to be verified, so like I asked before, any recording of the sound test in DOJ would be greatly appreciated from someone who can do it!

But yeah, as far as arranged music goes, you could rearrange the patch code from the PROM I suppose, but the samples would have to remain the same.

Also! New arrange modes are a great idea, I can certainly help someone with it but not as well as MikeNeko/BarfHappy who seems to have done a more thorough investigation, I'll put that up there as a general modification.

[emphatic]

Also! New arrange modes are a great idea, I can certainly help someone with it but not as well as MikeNeko/BarfHappy who seems to have done a more thorough investigation, I'll put that up there as a general modification.

I tried to think about how to change the game up with the stuff that's available already. Perhaps at least some stuff can be of use.

Perhaps a new brainstorming thread about possible PGM arrange modes, should MikeNeko bite at the challenge?

[trap15]

For what it's worth, the secret surprise was the ESPKetsuda OST:
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=36356

[trap15]

Work on the Back Label patch has finally been completed. We now have full Back Label hacked into a real ROM.
A video of it is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yt0nDt6SO6I
Please excuse my horrible playing, it was 4:30 AM then, and I was very stoned.

[BPzeBanshee]

For the record, I like ESPGaluda.

If using save states work, how about implementing a STAGE SELECT for ESPGALUDA, and for DOJ/Ketsui: START AT LOOP and START AT DOOM / HIBACHI?

Imagine how cool to turn on the cabinet, press start, select your battle ship ship, then out of nowhere DOOM appears! People would shit bricks.

*bricks shat* I like that idea too.

[yosai]

Work on the Back Label patch has finally been completed. We now have full Back Label hacked into a real ROM.
A video of it is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yt0nDt6SO6I
Please excuse my horrible playing, it was 4:30 AM then, and I was very stoned.

Nice work! Are those graphical issues from MAME or the result of the hacking?

[austere]

I wonder if it'll work on real hardware. The scroll register could be pointed to stuff that is zeroed out in MAME but does/doesn't exist on the bus. I guess people will test it out with real hardware when the complete solution (switchable from service menu) is done.

Nice work! Are those graphical issues from MAME or the result of the hacking?

The title screen is deliberate, it probably took him a little bit of work. Everything else is an accurate reproduction (lol) of the back label edition.

[Barrakketh]

Everything else is an accurate reproduction (lol) of the back label edition.

So a feature of the back label edition is errors from the early PGM driver to the PCB version of Ketsui?

Look at the flying slab of concrete scrolling up at the midboss, or the wrong enemy placement/movements after that.

[austere]

Correct and the way the game is structured it would be difficult otherwise. I think most people want these funny features, playing it like this is challenging enough.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzZ2DOWRmkY

The concrete slab was actually there, what was missing was the two planes and the extra enemies. Also the dome at the end and roofs flying around in the second stage.

Back to the drawing board, trap15.

[yosai]

The disappearance/displacement of the rotor blades is probably the worst of the graphical glitches.

[emphatic]

It would be awesome if the continue counter would start at 1 and count to 10 instead in the Back Label.

[Barrakketh]

The disappearance/displacement of the rotor blades is probably the worst of the graphical glitches.

If you're talking about the player's craft, I'm pretty sure the blades disappearing is a side effect of dropping frames to convert the video to 30 FPS. If you step through a 60 FPS recording you'll see that the rotors are drawn on one frame, then disappear the next. You'll have rotors drawn on frame a, then missing on frame b. It's kinda like this for a bit:

Code: Select all

a b a b a b a b a b a b

When you drop the frames, you'll get parts of the video that are like:

Code: Select all

a a a a a a a a a a a

and

Code: Select all

b b b b b b b b b b b

Sometimes you'll get a couple of frames where the rotors are drawn on frames a and b, and after that it looks like the rotors are drawn on the b frames and not the a frames. The end result are the rotors appearing and disappearing. Shadows and your shield from bombing suffer from the same thing.

You can work around it, however. See this and this for examples.

[emphatic]

The disappearance/displacement of the rotor blades is probably the worst of the graphical glitches.

If you're talking about the player's craft, I'm pretty sure the blades disappearing is a side effect of dropping frames to convert the video to 30 FPS. If you step through a 60 FPS recording you'll see that the rotors are drawn on one frame, then disappear the next. You'll have rotors drawn on frame a, then missing on frame b. It's kinda like this for a bit:

Code: Select all

a b a b a b a b a b a b

When you drop the frames, you'll get parts of the video that are like:

Code: Select all

a a a a a a a a a a a

and

Code: Select all

b b b b b b b b b b b

Sometimes you'll get a couple of frames where the rotors are drawn on frames a and b, and after that it looks like the rotors are drawn on the b frames and not the a frames. The end result are the rotors appearing and disappearing. Shadows and your shield from bombing suffer from the same thing.

You can work around it, however. See this and this for examples.

No, what yosai ment is that the rotor is placed at the bottom of the screen.

[Barrakketh]

No, what yosai ment is that the rotor is placed at the bottom of the screen.

I thought he was mentioning those as two separate issues, seeing as how they can disappear without being on the bottom. That's why I didn't mention the displacement.

[trap15]

The concrete slab was actually there, what was missing was the two planes and the extra enemies. Also the dome at the end and roofs flying around in the second stage.

Back to the drawing board, trap15.

Back Label has a bunch of odd triggers to make things happen (see fighting the 2nd mid-boss), so I wouldn't doubt that my video lacked some of those things due to my own gameplay failings

[trap15]

Here's another fun Ketsui patch: Fast Label!

Video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6bimp4ojLU

Basically the way the patch works is it removes a part of the mainloop logic that does vblank waiting. Usually the PGM games wait 1 frame, do logic, wait 1 frame, do logic, wait 1 frame, wait extra frames, do logic, repeat. Extra frames is always at least one (though the code does allow for 0, it's never used for less than 1). Most of the time there's just 1 extra frame, but in some instances it can be 2 (again, the code allows for any amount, but it's not used for too many different values), though I think it can also be 3 in some cases.
This patch will remove the entire chunk that calculates frame waiting, and just does 1 wait every loop, thereby eliminating any intentional slowdown. It's a pretty neat thing, and I think I actually play better with it (possibly because it's completely smooth now, instead of waiting 1 or more frames extra for every 3 frames).

Also, new blog post of mine about it: http://daifukkat.su/2011/04/polygame-master-fun/

[emphatic]

Here's another fun Ketsui patch: Fast Label!

Video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6bimp4ojLU

Basically the way the patch works is it removes a part of the mainloop logic that does vblank waiting. Usually the PGM games wait 1 frame, do logic, wait 1 frame, do logic, wait 1 frame, wait extra frames, do logic, repeat. Extra frames is always at least one (though the code does allow for 0, it's never used for less than 1). Most of the time there's just 1 extra frame, but in some instances it can be 2 (again, the code allows for any amount, but it's not used for too many different values), though I think it can also be 3 in some cases.
This patch will remove the entire chunk that calculates frame waiting, and just does 1 wait every loop, thereby eliminating any intentional slowdown. It's a pretty neat thing, and I think I actually play better with it (possibly because it's completely smooth now, instead of waiting 1 or more frames extra for every 3 frames).

Also, new blog post of mine about it: http://daifukkat.su/2011/04/polygame-master-fun/

It looks like it plays more like the 360 port this way.

[cools]

Any updates?

[trap15]

Nope.