North Korea done goofed, inb4 nuclear WW III

[gameoverDude]

South Korea should cut off food aid to North Korea. Fuck it. Don't shoot back at NK, just let them starve a bit. Cut off diplomatic relations with NK, also. NK's leaders deserve to be treated as personae non gratae by the world.

Kim Jong Un is someone I wouldn't trust. Kim Jong Il croaking may not make matters much better- he's 68 or 69, so he's probably still got a few years left unless his health is really that bad. How do we know KJU isn't even worse?

[Drum]

Depends upon what you mean by "culture" - more than a few nations/groups/etc. (not to mention nonpolitical conglomerations) are run by small handfuls of people more than willing to let every last human being and every last vestige of "cultural identity" under their control rot in hell if it means they get to do whatever they want with no consequences.

What does this have to do with the topic at hand? Your operative phrase is "no consequences". Having your country turned into rubble, your people killed and losing all of your power, in addition to your life, certainly count as consequences.

Uh? North Korea practically is rubble and Kim Jong Il has killed plenty of his own people in order to hang on to power. He doesn't give a shit about that stuff. There haven't been any consequences for the ruling family so far and there's a very good chance the latest attack won't change anything.

[Acid King]

Uh? North Korea practically is rubble and Kim Jong Il has killed plenty of his own people in order to hang on to power. He doesn't give a shit about that stuff. There haven't been any consequences for the ruling family so far and there's a very good chance the latest attack won't change anything.

If you follow that back, the topic was mutually assured destruction. Regardless, killing political opponents is not the same as having an invading army or foreign power destroy your country. I doubt even Kim Jong Il wants foreign troops on his soil or for South Korea to lay waste to Pyongyang.

[captpain]

The world is a violent, scary place.

[Drum]

Uh? North Korea practically is rubble and Kim Jong Il has killed plenty of his own people in order to hang on to power. He doesn't give a shit about that stuff. There haven't been any consequences for the ruling family so far and there's a very good chance the latest attack won't change anything.

If you follow that back, the topic was mutually assured destruction. Regardless, killing political opponents is not the same as having an invading army or foreign power destroy your country. I doubt even Kim Jong Il wants foreign troops on his soil or for South Korea to lay waste to Pyongyang.

I followed that back and that wasn't clear at all. You talked about destroying a culture, and the Kims have done pretty much exactly that. If you meant MAD, that's fine - thanks for clarifying, and I agree. Also, thousands and thousands of North Koreans have been murdered by the regime in camps - not just political opponents.

[BulletMagnet]

What does this have to do with the topic at hand? Your operative phrase is "no consequences". Having your country turned into rubble, your people killed and losing all of your power, in addition to your life, certainly count as consequences.

This is true, but I'd still rethink your use of the word "culture" in your original statement: you are pretty safe in assuming that there aren't many significantly-sized groups of people ("cultures", or whatever you'd care to call them) who'd choose playing with this kind of fire over living peacefully, but their desires are all too often often trumped by a handful of ambitious and ethically-bankrupt personalities more than willing to put a knife to the throat of the entire world if it earns them an extra layer of gold plating on their summer palace. In any event, they're definitely more reliant on the hesitance of someone else to inflict further suffering on their populace than their own sense of "maybe this isn't such a good idea", especially since they've already got their personal escape routes planned out, body doubles suited up, and/or bunkers built.

South Korea should cut off food aid to North Korea. Fuck it. Don't shoot back at NK, just let them starve a bit.

In a despotic place like NK that won't do much of anything, except possibly make things worse: when supplies are scarce Kim and his flunkies can simply take even more of what remains for themselves (and leave even less for the commoners) than before, and blame the latter's starvation on the evil influence of the West, just as they've always done. What's stopping them?

Cut off diplomatic relations with NK, also. NK's leaders deserve to be treated as personae non gratae by the world.

My gut reaction to this is to agree, but then I think back to the recent episode when Clinton persuaded Kim to free a prisoner or two just by posing for a few pictures with him - if such a small gesture was able to get him to loosen his infamously tight grip even a little (if only in terms of "showing weakness" or some such "moral victory"), I'm tempted to think twice about the "screw that whole mess" angle, even if it feels good from a safe distance. And yes, Kim certainly painted Willy's appearance as a victory for himself, but methinks the rest of the world viewed the display differently, especially since at least one life was probably saved in the process.

[Ed Oscuro]

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/asiap ... index.html
How big is the potential danger of this conflict further escalating into something far bigger?
Discuss.

I think you need to bone up on your NK history a bit more. North Korea is just taking what they view as incremental, but small, steps to put the spotlight back on them. They can do this for centuries before it starts looking like the Korean War is opening up again.

The fact that they're in the middle of exchanging one leader for another means that we can look at their past history for examples. When Kim Jong Il, the current fancy pants-man, was taking over it's widely believed he had ordered the bombing of a South Korean airliner in 1987 (and he's also been blamed for a bomb in Burma that killed South Koreans, including members of the Cabinet).

I think that the current approach is the correct one - unfortunately there's no apparent endgame. Whatever the White House does should be with an aim towards pushing North Korea off on their protectors in Beijing, while staying close to South Korea. If China wants to protect the world's last Stalinist dictatorship with death camps, then they can shoulder the majority of the burden. North Korea is bankrupt and they are absolutely committed to extorting the world community so they can keep the state leadership intact. A war and restructuring as after 1945 would solve things, but at great expense, and there's no indication the Chinese would go along. Giving them any aid would be tantamount to supporting the death camps, and does nothing about resolving the nuclear issue.

My only wonder right now is who set them up with the centrifuges. I wonder if some actor is now involved who thinks that giving North Korea nuclear bargaining capability would make them feel more secure, and more responsible? (More likely I'd see the players being either cynical businessmen, or people who see North Korea as a destabilizing influence countering American influence, which is not wise, partly because whoever is helping North Korea has blood on their hands.) All the evidence has been pointing, and been pointing for as long as I have been watching North Korea, towards North Korea's main interest being in extorting aid. Their demands for assurances against American aggression are actually sensible but they can't separate that from other concerns about their actions. Besides, if they want assurances against aggression, they need to sit down with the other parties and end the war.

Complicating everything is the fact that at least part of the capital, Seoul, is within range of North Korean artillery. Every second the South Korean people live in peace is a peace the North Koreans are holding them hostage...but I can't pretend I don't know why they try to ignore it.

The world is a violent, scary place.

*When political realists control everything.

Additionally, when nobody works to ensure international organizations can work beyond being forums for extorting other countries.

[RNGmaster]

Well, that was a long time ago, and there's no way in hell something like the assassination of one man would start a WORLD war now. People are pretty sick of war at this point, and I think would try to avoid it. I know here in the U.S. people aren't ready to go to war with another country. Now, i'm sure they will in 20 years or so, but not now.

People were sick of war before Vietnam. And considering all the modern media with North Koreans as the boogeymen, I wouldn't be surprised if there was a lot of popular support for a good war with the commie bastids.

And technically, the Korean War isn't over. The threat of mutually assured destruction (and aforementioned cock-swinging) is the only thing stopping the DPRK from dropping a Mushi-sized load of artillery on their neighbors.

[Acid King]

This is true, but I'd still rethink your use of the word "culture" in your original statement

I just used the term as applied Mr. Dupre, who suggested that MAD didn't take consider differences in "cultural outlook and history".

[Ed Oscuro]

Does anyone have info on why North Korea did this? Supposedly, it was in response to South Korean drills but that ROK already let DPRK know. That doesn't jive with me though. No editorials or attributing it to irrationality please.

Answered in my post BTW.

About the assassination of one guy (xero making a reference to Archduke Francis Ferdinand being killed in modern Serbia) - well, if that one person killed was one of the leaders of North Korea, they sure would exact a toll. They probably don't want to open up a full-scale war (reason being that would be internally destabilizing in North Korea) but they would certainly resort to more terrorist acts than before and call it justice.

[TrevHead (TVR)]

Koizumi will sort everything out http://www.darkmirage.com/2010/08/31/th ... f-koizumi/

[Ed Oscuro]

Koizumi will sort everything out http://www.darkmirage.com/2010/08/31/th ... f-koizumi/

Hmm, but will be surpass the girl from Tuna Empire's "Viva Freedom?"

(p.s. that's extremely pornographic...but awesome.)

[greg]

To quote a friend of mine, "North Korea is just pissed off because they still don't even have Starcraft 1 yet."

[antron]

Does anyone know the estimation of how many South Koreans the North could instantly kill if they wanted to? Apparently they have a barrage of rockets within reach of major Southern populations. Hell, look where Seoul is.

[Zeron]

To quote a friend of mine, "North Korea is just pissed off because they still don't even have Starcraft 1 yet."

North Korean arcades are the greatest why would they need Starcraft?


http://www.ukresistance.co.uk/2008/09/i ... rcade.html



If a war breaks out I hope someone here brings the arcade cabs as war booty

[BIL]

Yie Ar Kung Fu! I had to buy a PS2 for that shit!

[BryanM]

It'd be probably largely contained. South Korea and China would really, really not like to have to deal with refugees, so a little murder now and then will be tolerated as it always has before.

until Kim croaks and when that happens, people just have to hope someone more sensible takes his place.

It's not like the guy is in a situation where he can do whatever the hell he wants. He's not a wizard. Kim would probably like very much to be able to sit in his room and look at blonde pr0nstars all day and play with himself, but there are plenty of other psychos he has to appease if he wants to keep his status and/or be not dead.

[antron]

^probably right.

His son that is being preped for power does give me hope though. Grade schooled in Switzerland, played a lot of basketball (real and on PS2), and most importantly he had friends (or at least one good one). That friend says that he doesn't know who he is now, but then he was a good person.

[TrevHead (TVR)]

Didnt Um the son spent part of his childhood in europe somewhere? if so lets hope he gets sick of been in a 3rd world country and goes the same way as China has in trading with the rest of the world.

[antron]

Didnt Um the son spent part of his childhood in europe somewhere?

Kim Jong-un. yes, Switzerland

this is his old friend:
http://www.facebook.com/people/Joao-Micaelo/1654047552\

[Ed Oscuro]

Thread is headed in the right direction! I agree with the analytical work done by my colleagues. Also I did not know that Kim-Jong Un had a good friend in Switzerland or exposure to PS2 basketball. At least it's not Starcraft - that could give the lad some awkward ideas. I don't think a Zerg Queen is in his (or our) future (leastways I hope not).

[Zeron]

Thread is headed in the right direction! I agree with the analytical work done by my colleagues. Also I did not know that Kim-Jong Un had a good friend in Switzerland or exposure to PS2 basketball. At least it's not Starcraft - that could give the lad some awkward ideas. I don't think a Zerg Queen is in his (or our) future (leastways I hope not).

Maybe Kim Jong Un will cutdown on military fundings and invest more in state runned Arcades