Help choosing TV

[neorichieb1971]

Well I spent a good $200 on my 2950 + shipping + cable adapter and ended up trashing the monitor since nobody else wanted it at the time. The cables I sold for about $40. I even tried to get the monitor calibrated and spent another $200 on that only to be vastly disappointed further as they did next to nothing to it.

When I got the XRGB2 everything worked and I was happy. The only problem I didn't like was that a CRT is heavy and TATEing it wasn't really my idea of great fun. But it was the nearest I got to perfection. If you buy a TV you will have further issues if your TATEing so I would buy 2 of the same if you can so you don't need to mess around with it. CRT's are happy being left alone but they don't like being shifted around a lot.

Do not buy a LCD TV for use with a XRGB. My results were nigh on pathetic. I am possibly considering a 360 with 5:4 HP 22" monitor for the shooters on that console, but thats something for another day.

Believe me, your in a fantasy world right now thinking "ideal this" and "ideal that", but the truth of the matter is that gold at the end of the rainbow is in reality a shit feeling inside your stomach and a weaker bank account to boot.

If you stay on the straight and narrow, buying newer tech and resellable items you will not get hurt as much as buying a Craiglist monitor thats were built 20 years ago and expecting it to perform 100%.

[kamiboy]

Well, I don't really care about not being able to sell the 2950, or any of the hardware I ever purchase for that matter. Once I purchase something I consider that money lost, if it does not work out then may well, something else will.

I am not sure what new tech I would purchase in favour of a 2950, I am looking for the perfect marriage of display technology and obsolete console hardware. I dont know anywhere where I can purchase a decent sized CRT TV new, these things vanished from shop inventories several years ago.

But I've had a CRT TV in the past, and have a CRT monitor right now, I know perfectly well what I am about to get into. I have no fantasy ideals, my CRT monitor looks great, but this thing was not made to display interlaced TV signals. It is a monitor made for graphics artists and the like and excels when applied to such work. As such I know that a CRT TV will give me a better image, and with a bigger display area.

What are you using now though? You never mentioned that. Also, what cables did you purchase to connect your consoles to the 2950, I am interested to know.

[SGGG2]

Do not buy a LCD TV for use with a XRGB. My results were nigh on pathetic.

The XRGB-3 looks fantastic on both of my LCD monitors.

[Ed Oscuro]

Do not buy a LCD TV for use with a XRGB. My results were nigh on pathetic.

The XRGB-3 looks fantastic on both of my LCD monitors.

And what systems are you playing with them? Don't say arcade PCBs, and please don't say NES.

[SGGG2]

And what systems are you playing with them? Don't say arcade PCBs, and please don't say NES.

Nintendo Entertain... just kiddin'. I'll get around to an RGB modded NES one day, though. Mostly 240p Saturn 3D titles (B1), 480p PS2 3D games with Xploder (B0), 240p Cave shooters (B1) and Dreamcast (B0). I should probably add that I'm running everything through an X-Select first. All connections are RGB or component. Gamecube looks alright at best.

[Endymion]

20 mintues, sure, if I know what I am doing, which I do not.

The first time I ever made a SCART cable mod it took me guess how long. I can guarantee you I didn't know what I was doing. The only thing that took time was just understanding what to do. Are you telling me after all the investigating you've done about this for months on end that you really don't understand what to do?

Then ever after hunting down the correct SCART schematics, Euro and Japanese style,

Done and done.

and managing to wire things up all nice I still have a feeling it might not work well or at all.

This is not rocket science. Honest. It isn't. If you really have no confidence then you can ask RGB32E, he's always offering to make cables for folks, Matt if he's still around and spots it, there is no shortage of help between people here and at NFG, and I can tell you, nearly all of us are not experts. We're just gamers who love our old games like you. [Except maybe viletim? ] I've said this before and usually it's taken the wrong way, so don't go away angry. I'm telling you that I know you think you cannot do this. I'm just disagreeing with you because I know that you can. And the mere fact you're interested makes it worth your time to just leap already, to know how to fish and feed for a lifetime (like, after your CRT crumbles and breaks, untold aeons into the future and you need to use another screen somehow) instead of being at the mercy of the market. The first monitor I modified a SCART cable for was a PVM2530 and it uses the same DB25 that 2950 you're looking for uses. The cable connector is huge on that thing. It was so flipping easy to mod I had no idea why I had ever hesitated once I finally jumped in the water.

[kamiboy]

I am sure I can do a SCART adapter mod if I have the right equipment and put some time into research. Sure its not rocket science when everything just works, the real trouble begins when they are not. Seeing as how I have a perfectly functioning SNES here, a perfectly functioning official RGB21 cable for it, a perfectly functioning XRGB-2 Plus and a perfectly functioning CRT monitor and I still cannot get RGB to work with no one being able to tell me why, then I am keeping the chances of failure with regards to RGB always well in mind.


I'll see about getting that 2950, and then the necessary equipment and cables and we'll see how I fare this time.

[Ed Oscuro]

And what systems are you playing with them? Don't say arcade PCBs, and please don't say NES.

Nintendo Entertain... just kiddin'. I'll get around to an RGB modded NES one day, though. Mostly 240p Saturn 3D titles (B1), 480p PS2 3D games with Xploder (B0), 240p Cave shooters (B1) and Dreamcast (B0). I should probably add that I'm running everything through an X-Select first. All connections are RGB or component. Gamecube looks alright at best.

Well y'see...those are modern enough that of course they will look ok! It's when you get into the RGB and finicky NTSC areas (especially NES) that stuff will start to look questionable. 'course I'd expect trouble with most any 8- or 16-bit console on an LCD.

This is not rocket science. Honest. It isn't. If you really have no confidence then you can ask RGB32E, he's always offering to make cables for folks, Matt if he's still around and spots it, there is no shortage of help between people here and at NFG, and I can tell you, nearly all of us are not experts.

Heh heh, no kiddin'! Certainly speaks for me. I don't quite think I'm equipped to cut cables myself right now, though. Someday I ought to look into it...sooner rather than later, but I'll probably ask some folks to put together a couple rarer pieces I need done so they will have a chance of holding together long run.

[StarCreator]

So, uh, I probably should have linked this before, but if you want to get a handle of the size of the thing, there are photos of my PVM-2950Q before I sold it. The supergun is actually attached via S-Video. The dark line in the display is due to the camera and is not a display defect.

[neorichieb1971]

The dreaded border at the bottom. That can be fixed by adjusting the pots on the PCB inside the monitor.

As for my cables. I bought them from somebody on here. It basically had the AV cable of each console that could be detached half way down the cable to a 12pin female>male adapter. On the other end was the DB25 connector for the monitor.

I don't have a setup anymore. I decided to just buy cabinets instead of pissing around with home made stuff. With Viletims console adapter and with most cabinets monitors being very well suited for 240p and some with rotating mechanisms, well the rocket science is all done and dusted.

I have 4 cabinets.

This was my old set up -

[kamiboy]

I don't know how, but some guy way over in Quebec saw my local ad calling out for the 2950. Seems the one he has is broken but he wants to fix it first, something with the logic board or some such. He wouldn't give me a price, but after I asked how old it was and how much use it has seen and it was reported that it is at least 15 years old and has seen up to 6 hours of use every weekday I was suddenly gripped by a feeling that this is prolly at death's door, repaired or not.

I was sort of expecting studio monitors to get heavy use in their life, and expect that they are built to last, but still 15 years of heavy use prolly means the PQ is a dim mess by now. I doubt he'll take my offer seriously but I got to wondering what were the ages and use of the other 2950's before they came into the hands of other people here?

EDIT:
It seems he is willing to let it go for 400 COD if the repairs do not end up costing too much. I think I will take him up on this as I doubt I'll have another chance like this again. But lords help me if it decides to break at some point.

[StarCreator]

That's far, far more than I'd be willing to pay for something that doesn't even turn on at the moment, to be perfectly honest. I wouldn't even bother trying to negotiate until seeing it in action, especially after the amount of use it's already been through.

[neorichieb1971]

Stay well clear. In fact I would go for a monitor that has been in its box for 15 years. There are some on UK's ebay at 14". I know thats small but at least they exist in box.

[kamiboy]

It does turn on according to him, but it seems that there are some issues with the inputs. He says he gets a garbled mess when using composite, but S-video looks great only there is no colour. Sounds to me like the problem is relegated too some insular part of the input board. Should be an easy fix by replacing the faulty board with a replacement, but what do I know.

As for seeing it in action, forget about that, he lives about a 1000 kilometers away. The guy is obviously not a native English speaker and communication has been a bit tough. The best I can do is ask him wither there is anything wrong with the PQ that he can report on and take his word for it. 400 may sound like a lot but most of that is likely going to be shipping. Also bear in mind that for some reason everything in Canada costs twice what it should across the border.

I can spare the means for this risky experiment, if it does not pan out I can always fall back on my pre-existing setup. Getting one of local Trinitron TV's that have only seen a few years use might seem like a more prudent purchase that can be done for under 200. But I must consider that they lack PAL support and I can forget about using anything better than S-video on any console but my PlayStation 2 and 3. To get RGB, like for my CDX which does not support S-video, I'd need a XSELECT-D4 or some such device and that is added expenses right there.

[kamiboy]

Stay well clear. In fact I would go for a monitor that has been in its box for 15 years. There are some on UK's ebay at 14". I know thats small but at least they exist in box.

Anything below 25" is pointless to me. As far as I have seen all the SONY PVM units except the 2950 have some sort of shorcoming for my purpose. I did nottice that the 2530's are plentiful in various states of use. But after looking over the manual I reached the conclusion that they are not as good a fit.

Besides, this is Canada, everything is hard to come by, in fact I hardly ever end up buying anything domestic, almost everything I have cane from other countries because it is either not sold here, or is not satisfactory or is way too expensive. I'll give the 2530's manual a look over again, but I do not even see any of these for sale in Canada. Whatever I end up buying it is going to cost me at least 300 because you have to factor in shipping to my remote part of the country.

EDIT:
Yeah, I remember the shortcomings of the 2530's. These units do not have component input at all and their RGB input is not via 3 to 5 BNC's as with the 2930's, instead they have some sort of crazy 25 pin D-sub meant to be hooked up to some sort of ancient computers. I am not even sure that input supports whatever a console is likely to put out. In short s-video only.

[StarCreator]

I'm pretty sure the 25 pin adapter carries the same signal a 4-5 wire BNC connector carries. The supergun seen in my photos was actually wired with one.

[kamiboy]

Doing some research it seems people have been successful in using the 2530's with consoles after building a frankenstein monster of a SCART adapter mod. I really am not comfortable with using something I threw together myself.

Alas I does not even matter for while perusing eBay for listings of 2030's and 2530's, I noticed a lot of posters had kindly provided shots of the units backsides where the manufacturing dates are printed.The lowest I saw was 1994, and the newest 1996. I doubt I can easily find a PVM made in this decade. Perhaps SONY stopped making them in the late 90's, I don't know. If that bunch of 5 year old Trinitrons being sold locally had PAL support I'd be all over them. But now I am split.

[neorichieb1971]

My 2950 had the 25 pin connector, which is what I used.

The cable I had went into the DB25 for RGB, then half way up was a 9 pin connector female.. What you would do is have a AV cable for each console that plugged into the 9 pin connector. So console AV cable supporting RGB > 9 pin > DB25 on monitor. AFAIK you can't get RGB into these monitors without custom cables. You don't think there are Playstation BNC cables do you?

[kamiboy]

The only official SONY RGB cables are SCART, either wired according to European standard or the Japanese, which is the ones that I have.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

Most of those Sony Trinitron RGB monitors have a properitary 8-pin input connector interface -- that RGB input port can be used as well (besides the usual DB-25 pinout interface). Just gotta get a special Sony 8-pin RGB connector cable though -- those are quite hard to find nowdays.

On my Sony 9" CPD-9000 RGB monitor, it only has that properitary 8-pin connector interface -- had to cut off the other end of the special Sony 8-pin RGB connector cable and attach a hacked DB-9 plug coming out of a supergun setup for the RGB signal. Playing MVS games on it is quite super razor sharp indeed -- even the ol' Yumekobo produced MVS Blazing Star shmup looks great running on this tiny low-res 15kHz RGB monitor with the obligatory scanlines and all. Would be great for a mini-Mame arcade cabinet project or as a bartop cab setup.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[kamiboy]

My 2950 had the 25 pin connector, which is what I used.

The cable I had went into the DB25 for RGB, then half way up was a 9 pin connector female.. What you would do is have a AV cable for each console that plugged into the 9 pin connector. So console AV cable supporting RGB > 9 pin > DB25 on monitor. AFAIK you can't get RGB into these monitors without custom cables. You don't think there are Playstation BNC cables do you?

How old was your unit? How much use had it seen before it came into your hand and how was the PQ holding up?

I will soon have an alternative option of a 2530 for around the same price as the 2950 I mentioned before. But I am not sure about the use condition yet. I have the options of many local Trinitron TV's for sale, but most of them are FS120's which allegedly have life expectancy issues. But even without that I am not inclined to go the plain TV way. The BMV monitors have a lot of advantages, like much better build, the fact that they are built to be much more wieldy and the deal breaker, PAL support.

If it turns out the 2530 is as old as 2950 then I'll go with the 50, otherwise it might be a tossup. For a brief there was the third option of a guy in Toronto who was selling an absolute relic, an early 1980's 25" SONY Profeel monitor. I was very intrigued by that one, getting a TV from before the digital age, but unfortunately he is not willing to ship it, so that is out.

[kamiboy]

While looking I fell over what I thought at first to be another PVM 2950 for sale, but after some examination I discovered it to be a PGM 2950 whose existence I was not aware of.

This is sort of like the VGA monitor version of PVM 2950, but the only thing it understands is 640x480 VGA. It is quite cheap, and hooking it up to my current setup of an XRGB-2+ would be the easiest of all alternatives. But, I have seen what a computer monitor looks like when fed a 480i signal with emulated scanlines through an XRGB.

In fact that is the very reason why I wanted a native 480i display to begin with. Any chance the PGM 2950, when fed a 480i signal routed through the XRGB, with full scanlines on, would perform just like the PVM receiving that same 480i signal directly?

If somehow the results of these two routes would be comparable then I think the PGM is the best solution.

[neorichieb1971]

Mine was in OK shape, but I wouldn't buy another.

If I were to buy one of that sort of monitor again I would go for the XM29.

http://www.google.co.uk/images?hl=en&q= ... 66&bih=575

[kamiboy]

Why, what was wrong with the 2950? Did it not perform to your expectations, or was it too limited in its uses.

I understand the NEC XM 2960 that you mention acts more like a proper monitor than the 2950, in that it supports resolutions up to 1024. Alas I looked for it but no dice, while the SONY 2530's are somewhat easily found, and there were one or two 2950's, I did not find a single XM 2960 up for grabs in Canada. There were one or two in other countries, and they seem to demand a hefty premium.

The VGA support would have come very much in handy, but I think I can write off any NEC display, they are the rarest of rare.

[neorichieb1971]

Comes with remote, the year of manufacter is later I believe, the ability to adjust the screen is on external buttons on that upper indent behind the screen. All these are better options than the 2950. The 2950 adjuster is in a high voltagearea on a PCB inside the stupid thing and you need a screw driver (plastic preferably) to adjust the pots.

the only other option is a wells gardner arcade CRT or using a TV with svideo/component.

[kamiboy]

A Wells and Gardner arcade monitor might have been an option I would consider but they, true to their namesake, are meant to be put into arcade cabinets and are otherwise naked. I do not have such an enclosure handy, and getting one is prohibitively expensive, if not bothersome as well. Thus I do not know what to do with such a stark naked thing, it would be ugly as well as a hazard.

Now, if they sold these things in some sort of handy boxed enclosure, such as the SONY PVM's come in, then I'd be all over it. As it is I think Wells and Gardner recently discontinued their much lauded CRT line, so you cant even get the naked thing if you wanted to.

[neorichieb1971]

sent PM.

[kamiboy]

Thanks to our cockney friend I just pulled the trigger on an last minute contender, a NEC XM29 Plus up for grabs on eBay.ca. I have yet to get a reply to my request for shipping quote and general age and PQ questions but I fear someone might make away with it while I battle with the unknown factors. The chances of an XM29 presentation monitor having seen little use in its 10 or so years of life is, I muse, much more likely than any SONY PVM studio monitor.

Brushing up on the specifics it seems this only does RGB, no component input at all. So all that remains now is for me to track down one of the ever elusive XSELECT-D4's to take care of all my connection anxieties in one fell swoop.

Once again thanks for the tip neorichieb1971, and I'll be sure to report how things will work out once I have all the hardware in place.

[Thjodbjorn]

Ha! I was looking at that one. I was quoted $160-something to Minnesota, so I passed. I e pegged it to be pretty bad, as far as shipping went.

[kamiboy]

Well 160 for something of that bulk being shipped across border is quite good I'd say. I had something of similar size be quoted for over 600 the other way. Anyhow, I think I can hope for somewhat lower shipping charges going my way.