Starcraft II!

[Spacehog]

Thanks for explaining! Sounds a bit much...
Might be a bit hardcore for me, better back to playing The Sims

[Observer]

I'm waiting for the shoot 'em up mods for this.

If anything, modding and korean players will keep this thing alive for a decade.

[PROMETHEUS]

As for Scan, as a recon tool it should be the choice of last resort - scouting with units is obviously better than forfeiting the ~250 minerals or whatever the mules can drain out in most cases. And the thing is not a great defensive tool against stealth - the mana well always dries up long before they run out of ninjas.

So you're left with Moar Money / Offensive Stealth Detection / Emergency Recon / Double Supply Depot as options, in general. An overly conservative player will still spam these - they'll just leave 50 energy in the bank "just in case" for a situation that'll never happen. A good player would know when they're in a situation it can be actually useful.

A false dilemma is no dilemma at all.

Sorry I'm not following you well, it maybe because I'm misunderstanding something because English isn't my first language, but reading this paragraph it's looking to me as if you're defending my statement of energy tension adding strategic value to the game. Then what do you mean false dilemna ?

Are the peon harvest speeds the same as SC1? I need to know how much more expensive Zerg units are than listed and how much cheaper Protoss units are, precisely.

Oh oh and do you still have to build a supply depot over the initial exit point of your command center if the minerals are over to the right? Or have they fixed that bug (the bug of having a massive resource advantage based on what starting point you get) and now make the peons come out from the closest point possible to a mineable object?

The harvest speed is not exactly the same but similar. I don't understand what you mean by Zerg units being "more expensive than listed" @_@?

And about that SC1 bug you're talking about, I don't know where you got that idea that it was a bug or that it gave a massive resource advantage, it's a very small boost actually that barely makes any difference but worth doing anyway at pro level (because it costs almost nothing at all to do this and it gives you a few free minerals at start). But yeah in SC2 that's fixed cause workers come out of the building at the closest point to the rally destination. Most of the very minor flaws that Starcraft has are gone in this game.

[BryanM]

Sorry I'm not following you well, it maybe because I'm misunderstanding something because English isn't my first language, but reading this paragraph it's looking to me as if you're defending my statement of energy tension adding strategic value to the game. Then what do you mean false dilemna ?

I'm saying most of the time one of the macro options is the superior choice.

What kind of makes me giggle are these reports of people using the alternate "planetary fortress" upgrades as super siege tanks. It seems so mean.

it's a very small boost actually that barely makes any difference

The ~30-50 minerals or so can be as high as 1 to 3% of the total minerals harvested.

A casino earns its profit with advantage numbers like that, though I know it very very rarely was the difference between winning and losing,

But yeah in SC2 that's fixed cause workers come out of the building at the closest point to the rally destination.

Excellent. I'll totally get it when it's down to $10.

(Which will be right before Starcraft 3 comes out 15 years from now, the way things look like.)

[kengou]

I'm waiting for the shoot 'em up mods for this.

If anything, modding and korean players will keep this thing alive for a decade.

There's already one built into the campaign! It's rather easy, of course, but shows what the engine is capable of.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGbTcuhJCYA

[innerpattern]

No LAN support.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UFA1ieWA8s

[KindGrind]

Nice. I like these vids.

[Observer]

I'm waiting for the shoot 'em up mods for this.

If anything, modding and korean players will keep this thing alive for a decade.

There's already one built into the campaign! It's rather easy, of course, but shows what the engine is capable of.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGbTcuhJCYA

Heh, awesome. Maybe this could really mean people will end up making shooters out of this chaos. They are already Touhoulizing it and making bullet hell stuff if I'm not wrong.

[PROMETHEUS]

Sorry I'm not following you well, it maybe because I'm misunderstanding something because English isn't my first language, but reading this paragraph it's looking to me as if you're defending my statement of energy tension adding strategic value to the game. Then what do you mean false dilemna ?

I'm saying most of the time one of the macro options is the superior choice.

Well Scan is still important and Call Down Depot never used. Good players are constantly feeling the tension between Scan and MULE, having to make a choice between both every time. You can watch matches to see how scan is used.

it's a very small boost actually that barely makes any difference

The ~30-50 minerals or so can be as high as 1 to 3% of the total minerals harvested.

The total minerals harvested in a game are tens of thousands so you're actually more between 0,1 and 0,3%, which is nothing. It only makes a non negligible difference in the first few minutes to kind of boost your build order but it's really extremely small and only non negligible at a very high level of play (even then it's just what I said : something worth doing because it costs you almost nothing at all to place your depot there, but is never the cause for your victory). A SCV costs 50, and losing one even at the beginning of the game will never cost you the game, it'll just slow you down a tiny bit. It doesn't work like Casino profits.

[kengou]

Well Scan is still important and Call Down Depot never used. Good players are constantly feeling the tension between Scan and MULE, having to make a choice between both every time. You can watch matches to see how scan is used.

The Little One is the only player I've seen who uses the supply drop option as part of his early build. It's 100 minerals you don't need to spend NOW, rather than 300 minerals you'll gain LATER. Also, free instant supply The longer the game goes, the more important it is to mule though, of course. Still, interesting to think about the possibilities no one has considered yet with some of these abilities. A lot of zerg players are finding out how important it is to use creep tumors, especially if you've seen Zelniq's mass queen build in ZvZ.

[Battlesmurf]

The game is very pretty. I am still very much missing any type of camera options (zoom out, tilt?) as well as LAN play. I am still very much annoyed by the omission of lan play.

Game seems balanced so far- so they did alot of good things, but still there are some glaringly bad things there o.o

[BryanM]

It's 100 minerals you don't need to spend NOW, rather than 300 minerals you'll gain LATER.

100 minerals and an scv not having to walk to the build area (a chore that takes ages) and then standing around not doing anything useful for Xty seconds. It's freer than free - it's like traveling back in time and pouring gold all over yourself.

We've all played games where gambling for payoff in some distant, dark uncertain future just usually isn't worth it. Not all uncertain futures are created equally, of course.

[NAVVARR]

I wish they'd do a remake of Warzone 2100 -best RTS game ever

[Subterranean Sun]

Damn, stop teasing me! I know I must resist these urge unless I want buy it for 3 times!

[Khan]

buying it 3 times is what I call milking the cow, I mean it wouldnt make much difference if the seperate stories where priced reasonably within the $20 mark but I seriously think we are looking at $60 a pop....rediculous to be honest.

[kengou]

buying it 3 times is what I call milking the cow, I mean it wouldnt make much difference if the seperate stories where priced reasonably within the $20 mark but I seriously think we are looking at $60 a pop....rediculous to be honest.

They've always been described as 'expansions'. I think we'll be looking at $30-40 max. Besides which each campaign is as long as the ENTIRETY of the first game's 3 campaigns combined.

[njiska]

buying it 3 times is what I call milking the cow, I mean it wouldnt make much difference if the seperate stories where priced reasonably within the $20 mark but I seriously think we are looking at $60 a pop....rediculous to be honest.

I used to think that myself, but now that i've actually played the campaign I understand why they made the decision. Simply put Wings of Liberty is one of the most epic space dramas I've seen and the sheer size of it's campaign, both in terms of length and plot progression, more than warrants the higher price. It would be impossible to deliver the same level of quality with three 10 mission campiagns. It would also be financially ruinous to create all 90 missions for a $60 game.

[BryanM]

I think we'll be looking at $30-40 max.

$30? So cute! $40 is the minimum.

Early adopters always get ripped a new one..

It would also be financially ruinous to create all 90 missions for a $60 game.

Just depends how much money they spend creating it... it's like they built the same game over and over 2 or 3 times just for the core game..

The expansions will cost them a fraction (maybe ~1/3) as much to make, a nice way for easy money... and insurance in case WoL doesn't (haha) clear ~3 million sales...

[UnscathedFlyingObject]

Blizzard merged with Activision, the biggest dick in the industry. I am not surprised about the draconian DRM, the lack of LAN play, and the selling of an incomplete game.

[BryanM]

So is the overheating thing true? Supposedly the upgrade screen in the tech lab or whatever would redraw a bazillion times a second and melt GPUs.

Allegedly the fix was to add a limit in the "My Documents\StarCraft II\variables.txt" file -

frameratecapglue=30
frameratecap=60

Update: It is true, I guess. Man. Dude.

It only takes like 5 seconds to type something like sleep(MONITOR_REFRESH_RATE); or something and stick it in the next build. Had to have been known a thousand times over in beta. So the only reason not to have fixed it is... to be a lazy douchebag. "Because fuck you is why" really is the only valid reasoning here..... just wow....

[KBZ]

would enabling vsync do the same thing?

[BryanM]

A few posters say no, it won't. Which really makes no sense.

Thinking about it gives me headaches.

[PROMETHEUS]

It only takes like 5 seconds to type something like sleep(MONITOR_REFRESH_RATE); or something and stick it in the next build. Had to have been known a thousand times over in beta. So the only reason not to have fixed it is... to be a lazy douchebag. "Because fuck you is why" really is the only valid reasoning here..... just wow....

We are all pissed at the absence of LAN, chat channels, ability to watch replay with friends, etc... But you need to stay constructive in your critical approach of the game. Do I really need to tell you the obvious ? Do you really think Blizzard, a huge company looking to make as much money as possible from this sequel, would just leave an easy-to-fix bug in the game out of laziness and evilness ? Nothing Blizzard is doing wrong is intended to annoy the consumer, it's just a matter of making more money. In the case of that bug, obviously, a simple mistake, which is more than common in video games programming (there always, always are, even Cave STGs always come with some freezes and scoring bugs, although they are infinitely easier to program than something like Starcraft II).

[BryanM]

...

A big difference is that Cave generally doesn't have sixty year long betas with trillions of people playing who are more than happy to post excessively about how the thing melted a $100+ piece of hardware. Also you really, really, have to go out of your way to ensure your VSync hook doesn't actually wait for the vertical blank or anything.

Is Blizzard-Activision going to replace people's GPUs? Not yet, maybe never? Then why are you white knighting for them? Don't you think the piles of money and naked women they sleep on at night is enough for them? That they really don't need internet hugs from faceless anons?

It's stupid we have to get through all this bullshit before even touching on the game. I heard the singleplayer only lets you play offline (as a "guest") for ~30 days before having to check back in. Is that right? Jesus..

Argh I quit. I'll stop sucking up this thread now...

[brentsg]

I'm using a GF 480, which is known to suck power and run hot. But SCII isn't causing it any issues. Perhaps the issue is that some people lack sufficient cooling for their gear.

It could also be hitting people who have had steady overclocks.. 'till now.

[Observer]

Well, I'm not too happy after finding out the retail version sold here (and Brazil, Mexico, Colombia and Chile if I'm not wrong) lets you play the single and multiplayer for six months before forcing you to purchase the unlimited upgrade or just dishing the 60usd altogether for the US version via Blizzard.

Blizzard itself is encouraging us to get the United States version! How fucked up is that? Why even bothering with moving all the marketing machinery if the final result ends up with us getting the original english version?

Not only Blizzard/Activision treats Latin America as third rate customers just like Microsoft but also region lock us from everyone else. Let's not even talk about not being able to play with Europe, Asia, Oceania... Being region locked in the very same continent called AMERICA (which is compromised of more than the United States) is plain outrageous and a discriminatory joke. How about Canada? Are they region locked too? Someone surely got an F in geography or never bothered to check a world map to see if there is more land past "the border".

While a full spanish support might be thanked, it's terrible that you are forced to stand the entire game with a so-so translation and not even being able to switch languages, unlike the EU version (which allegedly lets you pick the language), and also having a completely different set of hotkeys. But that's minor compared to the crippled "only-for-six-months" boxed version that can be purchased as of now.

I have nothing against the game itself, and that's probably the worst part. All this mess drove the focus out of the game! It's like they deliberately sabotaged the release here.

Anyway, I guess I'll wait a bit until things calm down... RAWR, RAWR!

[Ruldra]

Well, I'm not too happy after finding out the retail version sold here (and Brazil, Mexico, Colombia and Chile if I'm not wrong) lets you play the single and multiplayer for six months before forcing you to purchase the unlimited upgrade or just dishing the 60usd altogether for the US version via Blizzard.

What the fuck?

I googled a bit after you said that and you're right, the version released here is the limited one. This is ridiculous...you can bet this game is gonna get pirated like hell around here.

[Battlesmurf]

Random- but does anybody want World of Warcraft or Starcraft 2 trial keys? It's 14 days or 7 full hours for SC2, no idea on the Wow stuff. Good way to decide if you want to fork over cash for the real deal.

[Observer]

Well, I'm not too happy after finding out the retail version sold here (and Brazil, Mexico, Colombia and Chile if I'm not wrong) lets you play the single and multiplayer for six months before forcing you to purchase the unlimited upgrade or just dishing the 60usd altogether for the US version via Blizzard.

What the fuck?

I googled a bit after you said that and you're right, the version released here is the limited one. This is ridiculous...you can bet this game is gonna get pirated like hell around here.

Ah, glad someone understands my pain. There is already a chart around showing the differences and the real price you have to pay to unlock the game, which ends up being just as expensive as the 60usd, if not more due to the rampant inflation we have here. It's so deliberately confusing you are better off just getting the original US release via their store. And it appears that's what they want you to do.

Disastrous to say the least. Let's not even mention the inability to switch languages. Definitely waiting for things to settle down. I'll be asking around a couple of stores to see what they are offering or if they even know the whole deal (I bet they don't).

[Ruldra]

It's so deliberately confusing you are better off just getting the original US release via their store.

One site stated that even if you purchase the US version, you'll be redirected to your region server and be forced to play the limited edition anyway.

I really wish I could find that article about the real reason all those limitations are in place. It's basically a war between Blizzard and Kespa to control the professional scene.

EDIT: There you go.