Ico SoTC fans rejoice

[Elixir]

SOTC can be played in HD on your PC through PCSX2. Although it does require a powerful rig.

Do you know what version of PCSX is best for this? I'd love to try this sometime.

0.9.6 or some of the newer work-in-progress versions should be good. And I suggest waiting for 0.9.7 as it`s not that far off. And make sure you have a fast CPU; SOTC is a bitch to emulate. Some of PS2`s best looking games like Final Fantasy XII and Monster Hunter 2 manage to run at 120fps in 1080p even on relatively weak computers. SOTC isn`t one of them.

Oh, and since this is a shmup forum, it would be criminal not to mention how well Gradius V runs in PCSX2 and how amazing it looks in HD resolutions.

Well I don't really follow PS2 emulation.. I have a quad core, Radeon 4850 with 1GB of RAM, and 4GB of actual RAM. Surely I'll be able to run this without issue, right?

The framerate not too shabby. Still glitchy graphics, though.

That looks amazing.

[UnscathedFlyingObject]

Nice artsy games that are boring to play. I really shouldn't have bought into the hype. Nowadays, I'm more careful about people overhyping niche games.

I'm with you all the way. SotC is pure and utter rubbish if you ask me.

I hope you guys are joking. If you're not you're fucking stupid.

At least, I'm not a pretentious little bitch about how superior my taste in videogames is .

[Obiwanshinobi]

I don't need to pretend anything; my taste is just awesome like that. I tried, oh, how I tried to do something about it, even played through God of War twice (and I'm in the middle of my third RE4 playthrough), but I still think that Ico, Blood Will Tell and Ōkami (chew on that Ō) are superior action adventure games.

[Drum]

I don't understand. Are you trying to say God of War is good or bad? (Because it's bad). And if you're saying RE4 is bad ... oh dear.

[dcharlie]

At least, I'm not a pretentious little bitch about how superior my taste in videogames is

but wait, isn't that exactly what you are doing?

"People like this, but it's shit - all hail my tastes!"

even as a fan of the games, i really can see how people wouldn't like both. So it's all good. The only thing i personally hate is people who don't play the games at all or predetermine a game is shit before they have even try it (usual suspects - please stand). There really can't be any outrage against people who tried these games and didn't like them to be honest - it's obvious the games have issues on several levels. So it's all good!

Though... just to highlight - the people who are "Well i DIDNT like Ico/SOTC ... at least i'm not a pretentious bitch!" come now ! Let's all get along

Recently it's fairly obvious that gaming taste is pretty much the same as music taste. It's deeply personal - from the backwaters of retro to the current situation we are in. We need a gamers movement that just recognizes that we are at least in the same space. Gamers are the most divided group of fans on the planet.

even played through God of War twice (and I'm in the middle of my third RE4 playthrough), but I still think that Ico, Blood Will Tell and Ōkami (chew on that Ō) are superior action adventure games.

Well here is a real life example of how we need to bond! Blood will tell is a personal favourite, so is RE4. Each to their own again. That's a strong list of games you list regardless and they could all be argued to be better the games you list are better. CELEBRATE THE DIFFERENCE GAMERS! STOP THE FANBOY WAR!

[UnscathedFlyingObject]

Nope, I said I think the games are boring and overhyped. Didn't judge anyone for liking or not liking them. Well, I did say that people who call other people "fucking idiots" for not liking SotC/Ico "pretentious bitch(es.)"

[chempop]

Even though I'm a big fan of Ico and SotC, I can also see why some wouldn't care for the series. For me they are easily two of the most immersive and heartfelt adventure games of all time, up there with Snatcher, Money Island, and Out of this World. They are games that I may not need to play often, but my experience playing them will never be forgotten, kinda like a "too good to be true" one night stand.

Blood Will Tell is a great game, but tries to do a little too much in certain areas, while not doing enough with others. What I mean is that they should have left out the kid's levels and made every organ give a special ability (not just stat increases). If they had taken the organ/limb collecting to the extreme it could have been the next Metroid. Has anyone seen the Live action Dororo, it is insane.

[evil_ash_xero]

I couldn't get into Ico, but I could see how some could love it. It just didn't have enough punch for me, although it was full of atmosphere.

I liked SOTC a LOT, becauase it had the same type of world and atmosphere, but was much more visceral, and since i'm an action fan, it clicked well with me.

It reminded me of Okami, in that it was truly artistic, but delivered a fun game with it too.

Ico is a puzzler, which i've never really been much into. If it comes out on this disc, i'll give it another try though.

[Dragoforce]

Nice artsy games that are boring to play. I really shouldn't have bought into the hype. Nowadays, I'm more careful about people overhyping niche games.

I'm with you all the way. SotC is pure and utter rubbish if you ask me.

I hope you guys are joking. If you're not you're fucking stupid.

For me it comes down to the fact that I can't enjoy a game that fails so miserably in the technical part just because some dude claims it got a heart or whatever. For me it's just a broken and ugly game. And I'm smart

[Jonathan Ingram]

Well I don't really follow PS2 emulation.. I have a quad core, Radeon 4850 with 1GB of RAM, and 4GB of actual RAM. Surely I'll be able to run this without issue, right?

Your GPU and RAM more than meet the requirements. As for the CPU, it`s not the number of cores that matters(quad core support isn`t implemented yet, so the emulator will use only two cores), but the clock speed - 2.7Ghz should be enough for most games; for SOTC I`d say you need at least a 3.3-3.5Ghz CPU.

[evil_ash_xero]

For me it comes down to the fact that I can't enjoy a game that fails so miserably in the technical part just because some dude claims it got a heart or whatever. For me it's just a broken and ugly game. And I'm smart

Do you not like the actual gameplay itself, or does the technical failings put you off from it too much? It's pretty simple really, but I think it's a lot of fun.

[Dragoforce]

The gameplay is interesting, although not my type. The main reason for my dislike is the technical failure. I find it almost provoking that a game company can release a game with those qualities.

[neorichieb1971]

Ueda is an artist, not a game designer. Its an "experience", not a game.

Personally i'm well into marvelling at 3D in videogames.

[chempop]

Wait a second, how do you know that the slowdown isn't intentional

[Drum]

Ueda is an artist, not a game designer. Its an "experience", not a game.

I like those games a lot - a lot - but this statement bothers me. As (most of) their truly outstanding aspects of SotC/Ico are aesthetic/cinematic, I have to wonder - do you actually hold games in any kind of regard at all? Seems like you have a pretty naive colonial attitude to me (please nobody give me a wedge for that).

chempop: Some of the slowdown is intentional, but other bits were pretty nauseating for sensitive types like me. I sure as hell hope they weren't intentional.

[MX7]

Wait a second, how do you know that the slowdown isn't intentional

Ha ha, indeed! After all, what's a hulking colossus if it doesn't have a Harryhausen-esque judder?

I thought the games looked awesome, slowdown and all. I wouldn't say it was a flaw. I love that feeling where games choke. I was playing Strikers 1945 Plus at the local shopping centre this morning and every time the amount of bullets on screen caused the game to shudder I was like "fuck me, this is intense"! I feel the same about piercing feedback in my favourite music. Just because some people find it undesirable doesn't mean that other people cannot legitimately enjoy this very facet.

[MX7]

Ueda is an artist, not a game designer. Its an "experience", not a game.

Nope, it's a game. A very good game, but it's still a videogame that rigidly (even lovingly) adheres to game based generic archetypes.

I understand you mean well with your appraisal, but honestly, if you want videogames to be considered as 'art', then purusing this kind of discourse can only impede this from happening. If videogames are to be accepted for their qualities, it needs to be done on their own intrinsic merits. I'm sick of reading statements with the implication that in order to be good, a game has to be something 'more' than a game, or it has to adopt aspects of other media (most notably cinema). I'd like to see someone draft up a kind of 'cahiers du cinema' for videogames that sees them as being valid not through their literary or filmic aspirations (though these of course exist), but through their acceptance and evolution of existing videogame archetypes. These might include levels, puzzles, bosses, exposition via interaction, all concepts that are central to ICO and Shadow of the Colossus.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Blood Will Tell is a great game, but tries to do a little too much in certain areas, while not doing enough with others. What I mean is that they should have left out the kid's levels and made every organ give a special ability (not just stat increases). If they had taken the organ/limb collecting to the extreme it could have been the next Metroid. Has anyone seen the Live action Dororo, it is insane.

I liked the Dororo's levels. Metroid (or any other "ultimate game of secrets") it was not, but - for example - that level where you have to explore the rooftops reminded me of Thief II: The Metal Age. That's a damn good association. Blood Will Tell just did this "wandering through the land of fairy tales and stories" thing for me. I literally dreamt about Blood Will Tell (and Rez while we're at it) before they came along, so these games are like taken out of my dreams.
As for Ico, for my money it was one of the very few games that lived up to their colossal cult hype. I finished it, shed a tear, then started SotC and oh boy, was the framerate gash. Finished that one too, but the bitterness hasn't vanished. Oddly enough, the original Silent Hill (technically just as broken and overambitious) is okay with me. Choppyness and sluggishness only makes it more dream-like, but SotC didn't do it for me.

Wait a second, how do you know that the slowdown isn't intentional

Ha ha, indeed! After all, what's a hulking colossus if it doesn't have a Harryhausen-esque judder?

I thought the games looked awesome, slowdown and all. I wouldn't say it was a flaw. I love that feeling where games choke. I was playing Strikers 1945 Plus at the local shopping centre this morning and every time the amount of bullets on screen caused the game to shudder I was like "fuck me, this is intense"! I feel the same about piercing feedback in my favourite music. Just because some people find it undesirable doesn't mean that other people cannot legitimately enjoy this very facet.

But you just couldn't help comparing the gameplay to eariler 3D platformers and TPP slashers. It wasn't the first game about exploring a fantasy world and battling gigantic creatures, but it was about the first one sporting the framerate this lousy, the controls this laggy (cinematic or not, a platformer should provide transparent, precise controls; otherwise it's plain broken). The camera in places blew as well. To me it felt like a parody of games I played earlier and had more fun with. Wanna huge bosses? Play Painkiller and Rayman 3: Hoodlum Havoc on the PC. Wanna this psychedelic rite de passage journey vibe? Play Rayman 2: The Great Escape on the PC or DC. Wanna "dying world/cursed land" atmosphere? Play Ico or Another/Out of this World. Now what exactly SotC has on these games? Certainly not the technology (the puzzles nowhere near as anal as in Another World alright, but they achieved it by the prompting voice of god device; so much for the subtlety). For a game made and published by Sony for their own console, and Ico's "spiritual successor" to boot, it makes for a crushing disappoinment.

[Jonathan Ingram]

Wanna huge bosses? Play Painkiller and Rayman 3: Hoodlum Havoc on the PC.

Why would you waste time playing Painkiller when you could be playing a far superior No One Lives Forever 2 instead? Why do you need Painkiller for huge bosses when you have God of War 3?

See? I can do this too.

Wanna "dying world/cursed land" atmosphere? Play Ico or Another/Out of this World.

What if I want the "dying world/cursed land" of SoTC?

For a game made and published by Sony for their own console, and Ico's "spiritual successor" to boot, it makes for a crushing disappoinment.

The general consensus is different. Bitching about it won`t change anything.

[Drum]

Wanna huge bosses? Play Painkiller and Rayman 3: Hoodlum Havoc on the PC.

Why would you waste time playing Painkiller when you could be playing a far superior No One Lives Forever 2 instead? Why do you need Painkiller for huge bosses when you have God of War 3?

See? I can do this too.

Wanna "dying world/cursed land" atmosphere? Play Ico or Another/Out of this World.

What if I want the "dying world/cursed land" of SoTC?

For a game made and published by Sony for their own console, and Ico's "spiritual successor" to boot, it makes for a crushing disappoinment.

The general consensus is different. Bitching about it won`t change anything.

Did you seriously just recommend God of War 3 over Painkiller? Ban pls.

[BIL]

Oddly enough, the original Silent Hill (technically just as broken and overambitious) is okay with me. Choppyness and sluggishness only makes it more dream-like

SH1 exploited its lurching camera and controls for stylistic effect, just like its oppressively short draw distance. Naturally hardware limitations are easier to accept when they have some positive effect.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Wanna huge bosses? Play Painkiller and Rayman 3: Hoodlum Havoc on the PC.

Why would you waste time playing Painkiller when you could be playing a far superior No One Lives Forever 2 instead? Why do you need Painkiller for huge bosses when you have God of War 3?

See? I can do this too.

Played NOLF2 and it was like Thief light (or poor man's Thief) with good graphics and unfunny humour. (How did you like these fake foreign accents? Up there with the likes of Freedom Fighters if you ask me. Because if Russians - or Chinese etc. - invade the US, the TV broadcasters will start speaking like that according to the makers of these games.) Don't see much in common with Painkiller, apart from both being FPP.
As for GoWIII, it wasn't out in 2005, was it?

Wanna "dying world/cursed land" atmosphere? Play Ico or Another/Out of this World.

What if I want the "dying world/cursed land" of SoTC?

Then you have to put up with the broken gameplay. Too broken for my liking.

For a game made and published by Sony for their own console, and Ico's "spiritual successor" to boot, it makes for a crushing disappoinment.

The general consensus is different. Bitching about it won`t change anything.

Is there a single general consensus left in this day and age of the internet? Praise anything publicly and someone inevitably and immediately will piss on it from their ivory tower.

Oddly enough, the original Silent Hill (technically just as broken and overambitious) is okay with me. Choppyness and sluggishness only makes it more dream-like

SH1 exploited its lurching camera and controls for stylistic effect, just like its oppressively short draw distance. Naturally hardware limitations are easier to accept when they have some positive effect.

Ico and Silent Hill remind me of each other in the camera department (in both the camera seems alive in places, like an invisible character), but there is nothing clever about the SotC's camera. Check out this (brighten your monitor if necessary). The battle begins on some kind of arena. In 90% of console TPP action games the camera would politely zoom out and let you do the job, but here it follows you closely all the time like a naughty puppy (and the framerate still gets in your way, despite the lack of anything extravagantly spectacular during this fight). That's one of these parody moments I mentioned, when they managed to break something done well so many times before that it should be a trivial task to get it right in the year 2005.
I even liked this fight in a way for reminding me of Gothic somehow, but that's just my imagination/memory/nostalgia/good will fixing what shouldn't have passed the quality check.

[chempop]

I loved riding the horse in the direction my sword pointed thinking to myself "where are you fucker, I'm gonna find you, and kill you!!!"

I will admit though, there was one fight that drove me completely insane because I just couldn't get the damn horse to do what I wanted it to do.

The slowdown didn't bother me in the slightest, it allowed me to relax a bit and take it all in while my dude was dangling off of a 5 story sized beast just barely latching onto his beard. There is nothing like this in any other game, people bringing up GoW and whatever else need to be spanked for at least 5 minutes.

Anyway, I don't own a PS3 yet, but with Last Guardian, Söldner-X 2, 3D Dot Game Heroes, Flow, and some indie platformer that I'm forgotten the name of, I'm starting to consider getting one.

[neorichieb1971]

I read somewhere that Ueda is an artist at heart, not a game designer. I'm not saying its not a game, just that the reason its artsy fartsy to some is because of that fact.

Since neither Ico or sotc has any reference to score or much to kill in the ways of its lands, I would suspect the world was created to be experienced. Its a desolate plane with moody music where your best friend is a horse and a dead person and your aid has no face. In Ico the person who becomes your friend doesn't even speak your language and becomes a chore, so a rare bond/relationship happens.

These 2 games are in my top 5 of all time. They are the reason I decided to stick with a PS3 for its sequels and quite honestly I think Ueda is the future. The gaming industry needs his diversion, he's the only one taken seriously that can make a $30million game without putting a shit load of guns and online features in his games. If you think thats wrong, then your reason I don't like the gaming industry right now, but lets not get into that. I love you all, I think games are there to be enjoyed. Its my fault that i'm very narrow minded with what I like and I make no apologies for that.

[Obiwanshinobi]

The slowdown didn't bother me in the slightest, it allowed me to relax a bit and take it all in while my dude was dangling off of a 5 story sized beast just barely latching onto his beard. There is nothing like this in any other game, people bringing up GoW and whatever else need to be spanked for at least 5 minutes.

It's about choppyness and input lag rather than slowdown. No one complained about the slowdown in Max Payne after all, as long as the framerate was good. Didn't you have a problem catching at that desert flying thing's fin? The framerate (with all that particle effects galore going) really wasn't helping you.

[Skykid]

I hope you guys are joking. If you're not you're fucking stupid.

For me it comes down to the fact that I can't enjoy a game that fails so miserably in the technical part just because some dude claims it got a heart or whatever. For me it's just a broken and ugly game. And I'm smart

Woah, that comment took things a little off course. Drago, not serious man, just poking fun. Each to their own (but it is a great game )

Nope, I said I think the games are boring and overhyped. Didn't judge anyone for liking or not liking them. Well, I did say that people who call other people "fucking idiots" for not liking SotC/Ico "pretentious bitch(es.)"

I don't genuinely think you're stupid, but I do genuinely think you're wrong and there's nothing pretentious about it. Both Ico and SOTC are far beyond most (if not all) adventure games on the PS2 and of the 128-bit era. The framerate does nothing the mar SOTC's technical achievements of a rolling non-linear landscape with no perceptible loading times, or the impressiveness of the giants you scale.
But beyond all that 'hype', it's a terrific game not just because of its engrossing atmosphere but because it manages to justify its artistic aspirations by offering a sheer genius gaming experience to match.
They're not 'perfect' titles, and the control scheme is probably the most valid criticism (in both Team Ico titles), but do they ruin or 'break' the game? Not at all.

Very confused by the negativity in this thread over two of the best games of the last decade.

[UnscathedFlyingObject]

My personal experience is that I got so bored playing them, that I'd ask myself "when is the fun supposed to start?" They get high marks everywhere, but I think they are grossly overrated games because they are artsy and niche. Shadow of the Colossus and Final Fantasy 8 are two games that I've actually fallen asleep playing.

[Skykid]

My personal experience is that I got so bored playing them, that I'd ask myself "when is the fun supposed to start?" They get high marks everywhere, but I think they are grossly overrated games because they are artsy and niche.

Ico is only as artsy as Panzer Dragoon or something similar. It's not an excuse for poor playability as the dungeon exploration and puzzles involving protecting a secondary character are on a scale with Zelda, which is difficult to pull off.

SOTC is niche because there's little quite like it either before or since. I consider that a testament to its ambitious and successful execution, and a hard act to follow. Few games during the PS2's reign had me so impressed, but if the pacing of it turned you off that's fair enough. I personally found them to far more pacey and engaging than any modern RPG, with each successive encounter just as exciting as the last.

I did Colossus in one sitting and then did it all again the following weekend, and there's very few games I've ever done that with.

[neorichieb1971]

Skykid,

Don't blame them for not liking the game. Its a case of taste. I for one feel exactly the same about genres that are getting all the attentions right now.

I'm only assuming here, but the more popular something is in life, the more hate it has towards it as well.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Both Ico and SOTC are far beyond most (if not all) adventure games on the PS2 and of the 128-bit era.

Don't want to sound condescending, but now you sound like some SotC equivalent of Ikaruga heads. Aren't you underestimating the PS2's library of action adventure games? Considering how low profile some of them are (Blood Will Tell, Sky Odyssey, heck, even Midnight Club II counts as one, easily), "far beyond most (if not all)" is a grand statement to make. I was MUCH more wowed by Blood Will Tell than by SotC in virtually every way (possibly because the former wasn't hyped at all, but still, good game is a good game, hyped or not).

The framerate does nothing the mar SOTC's technical achievements of a rolling non-linear landscape with no perceptible loading times, or the impressiveness of the giants you scale.

Aw, come on,"technical achievements"? SotC makes The Getaway look like a well coded game. Sony's own J&D games technologically utterly humble SotC. In Jak 3 you enter and climb this kind of shit without loadings whatsoever, then you glide from its top over the desert and the framerate is much smoother than on that vid (smoother than in Uncharted, actually). SotC is loadingless only in theory as it chokes on its own data streaming all the time.

They're not 'perfect' titles, and the control scheme is probably the most valid criticism (in both Team Ico titles), but do they ruin or 'break' the game? Not at all.

What's wrong with Ico controls? The combat as such isn't great, but someone who isn't a martial arts expert must be forgiven for desperately flailing with a piece of wood like that.
Didn't have a problem with SotC controls either, but the camera coupled with the framerate was awful in places (the framerate was permanently awful).