JAMMA PCB/Supergun protector-- any interest?

[havok1919]

It would be very good to have displays on the PCB itself since you're actually interested in the voltage at the connector NOT the voltage on the power supply since cables will have a voltage drop in them.

Please make sure you pass all wires through the JAMMA i.e. +5V on ALL 4 pins. We don't want any trouble with System 18

Autofire would be interesting but I'm not sure you have enough board space for the DIP blocks which remap all the buttons...

Yep, power monitoring at the point of load is a good thing.

All JAMMA signals pass through with the exception of the "CoinLockout"s. I brought four fire buttons through as well to pick up NeoGeo. (That's the same signal set that I've used for ~10 years on the MultiJAMMA without complaints, so it should be OK.)

It's a four layer board too, so power distribution is on big, heavy internal copper as well as the outer layers. I'll run some big current through it and shoot some thermal images to show how it does under heavy loads.

As for autofire, I'm on the fence. My first inclination is to just have one 'setup' button that just calls an onscreen GUI for all the button activations/rate stuff. The only trick there is that I don't really want to switch the video signals for cost reasons.

What would you think about autofire that worked like this:

1) Plug in the protector/autofire board alone (no game PCB attached) and power on. It generates its own GUI/video and you setup all your buttons and rates and whatnot. The settings are saved in non-volatile memory. Turn off power.

2) Plug in the game board and the autofire features you setup are ready to use.

(when you change games, you would unplug the game PCB and run just the protector/autofire setup again to configure buttons if necessary, then plug in the other board.)

Hmmm... Actually-- I could save several configurations for rapid recall. Say, ~8 'save slots' that you can have presets in for particular games or whatever.

-Clay

[cools]

Bring through pin 26/Ad as well

[THE]

I'm in on the deluxe model too. Will there be a discount? I need at least 5 units for my home arcade...

I'm not sure if it was mentioned already, but it would be cool if you include a switch for MVS Stereo/Mono stuff. If you put in a Multislot in a non SNK cab there can be damage on the amps.
Something like this:
http://www.jammaboards.com/store/neogeo ... d_198.html

[rtw]

Yep, power monitoring at the point of load is a good thing.

What about current monitoring... could that be done... easily ?

All JAMMA signals pass through with the exception of the "CoinLockout"s. I brought four fire buttons through as well to pick up NeoGeo. (That's the same signal set that I've used for ~10 years on the MultiJAMMA without complaints, so it should be OK.)

I would be slightly happier with all 5, the reason being that the Atomiswave has them all mapped.

Code: Select all

1P BUTTON A         22| V           2P BUTTON A
1P BUTTON B         23| W           2P BUTTON B
1P BUTTON C         24| X           2P BUTTON C
1P BUTTON D         25| Y           2P BUTTON D
1P BUTTON E         26| Z           2P BUTTON E

It's a four layer board too, so power distribution is on big, heavy internal copper as well as the outer layers. I'll run some big current through it and shoot some thermal images to show how it does under heavy loads.

Cool, please try it on Halley's Comet or Gradius IV if you have access to one!

What would you think about autofire that worked like this:

1) Plug in the protector/autofire board alone (no game PCB attached) and power on. It generates its own GUI/video and you setup all your buttons and rates and whatnot. The settings are saved in non-volatile memory. Turn off power.

Great idea but people are using switching mode power supplies which will not start up if there is no load therefore they will not get the GUI.

I think that focus should be on voltage protection and monitoring. If you want to design the mother of all auto fire circuits that should
probably be done on a PCB on it's own or a kind of plugin board my point being: at a later stage.

I believe in a clean design, make one thing which does the job well and allow other things to interface with it cleanly.

Even if I have the surge adapter plugged in I can still plug in my autofire PCB

[emphatic]

Sign me up of a deluxe model as well please.

[THE]

Instead of a GUI I would suggest a small 4x40 LCD with 4 Buttons (+/- A/B). Those are really easy to implement and program.

[system11]

All JAMMA signals pass through with the exception of the "CoinLockout"s. I brought four fire buttons through as well to pick up NeoGeo. (That's the same signal set that I've used for ~10 years on the MultiJAMMA without complaints, so it should be OK.)

I would be slightly happier with all 5, the reason being that the Atomiswave has them all mapped.

Code: Select all

1P BUTTON A         22| V           2P BUTTON A
1P BUTTON B         23| W           2P BUTTON B
1P BUTTON C         24| X           2P BUTTON C
1P BUTTON D         25| Y           2P BUTTON D
1P BUTTON E         26| Z           2P BUTTON E

Additionally Sega Megaplay boards use pin 26 for game select.

[havok1919]

What about current monitoring... could that be done... easily ?

Doable... It's not particularly hard (the main requirement being that the 5V 'output' be interrupted and some current sense stuff be added in series. (Either a hall effect sensor or resistor based current monitor.) Adds cost and PCB space though.

Code: Select all

1P BUTTON A         22| V           2P BUTTON A
1P BUTTON B         23| W           2P BUTTON B
1P BUTTON C         24| X           2P BUTTON C
1P BUTTON D         25| Y           2P BUTTON D
1P BUTTON E         26| Z           2P BUTTON E

That's not hard to stick on there, but it is a cost hit (need another ESD protector). I hate burdening the cost for everyone for if it's a feature only a few will use. Maybe I can add that on as a stuff option or something. (ie, they won't be loaded in regular manufacturing, but I could hand populate it for people that really want/need it.)

Cool, please try it on Halley's Comet or Gradius IV if you have access to one!

I don't have either, but I can run 'full current' through it and look for anything getting warm. Looks like CoinopExpress is able to get Gradius IV... If that's particularly evil power-wise I could order one up.

Great idea but people are using switching mode power supplies which will not start up if there is no load therefore they will not get the GUI.

I think that focus should be on voltage protection and monitoring. If you want to design the mother of all auto fire circuits that should
probably be done on a PCB on it's own or a kind of plugin board my point being: at a later stage.

Yeah, I agree. It might make sense to do an 'über alles' version with all the 'protector' stuff plus all the 'toys'. (current monitor, autofire, OSD, etc.) That one could cost more to support the extra features. I like gizmos on things, but I agree that there should be some focus on the protection aspect for this design. (partly why I like keeping the voltage monitor separate too.)

Even if I have the surge adapter plugged in I can still plug in my autofire PCB

Yup! Thanks for the feedback and good ideas...

-Clay

[havok1919]

Instead of a GUI I would suggest a small 4x40 LCD with 4 Buttons (+/- A/B). Those are really easy to implement and program.

Yeah... I've used those before, but man, that's just soooo 1980.

Guess I could do a capacitive touch sensor instead of buttons-- that'd be a neat way to adjust firing rate with a 'slider' and whatnot.

@THE -- the discount is going to be the price I suggested in my first post ($40 USD), I've added enough stuff on there now that I'll have to price it closer to $50 normally. (but, I'd rather have it be a bit more expensive and be "good" than to cheap out... At least you international guys can take advantage of the additional 'weak dollar discount'.)

-Clay

[emphatic]

I think that Gradius IV is 24kHz, so make sure you at least have a dual-sync monitor before getting it on a whim.

[rtw]

I think that Gradius IV is 24kHz, so make sure you at least have a dual-sync monitor before getting it on a whim.

Gradius IV can be switched to 15kHz so that's not a problem but please don't buy such an expensive game just to test the current!

A normal PSU can deliver 15A +5V and 4A at +12V so if it handles that all should be good.

[emphatic]

Is this still an ongoing project?

[havok1919]

Is this still an ongoing project?

Yep! I got bogged down with projects for my "day job" (I do hardware and firmware engineering), but I'm still working on it. I'm making a few changes based on results from the prototypes. Functionally they're good, but I decided it'd be useful to allow a few more settings for thresholds (right now I have a 'high' and 'low' sensitivity which basically limits the 5V to +/-5% or +/-10% respectively). I'm also revamping the LED operation a bit-- going to a single bicolor LED, so if things are "OK" it's green, too low is red, and too high is flashing red.

I switched in to 'data gathering' mode for a while to see if a 7.5A current limit was going to be an issue or not. I made it through about ~90 JAMMA boards so far and the only one that was even close was Desert Assault with a peak of 7.0A. Chelnov was runner up (heheh at 5.8A. There were only nine boards at or over 5A and about 85% were under 4A.

It'll be a few weeks before I'll have time to really get back on it, but I'll try to post updates when I do. Or ping me here if you're curious...

-Clay

[DasFool]

I'm definitely interested in a deluxe board. I blew the fuse in my Egret II with a stray USB cable grazing some component on my arcade PSU (I really wish that thing was covered) even while nothing was turned on. Scared me half to death. Do we need to preorder to get the discounted price or just wait for you to release them?

[THE]

I switched in to 'data gathering' mode for a while to see if a 7.5A current limit was going to be an issue or not. I made it through about ~90 JAMMA boards so far and the only one that was even close was Desert Assault with a peak of 7.0A. Chelnov was runner up (heheh at 5.8A. There were only nine boards at or over 5A and about 85% were under 4A.

Have you tried a NEO GEO MVS 6-slot equipped with 6 games made after 2000

[havok1919]

Have you tried a NEO GEO MVS 6-slot equipped with 6 games made after 2000

Heheh, I haven't but it's not a bad idea. I'm not 100% if my six-slots are in working condition or not. I suspect it'll be (relatively speaking) fairly low power, actually. I know I have some working 4-slots to try.

"newer" games with better chip-level integration tend to be really quite low power. Even if they have a ton of ROM space there's usually only a couple chips selected at a time and when deselected the low power modes kick in automatically. Just as a random datapoint-- something like Truxton (3.4A) or Sky Shark (5.5A) pull huge current on the +5V rail vs. something like Ibara (0.5A) or Dragon Blaze (0.05) or even Lode Runner: The Dig Fight (0.2A!).

SNK vs. Capcom (SVC Chaos) is only 300mA on the +5V rail, but that's using the much later and better integrated NeoGeo ASICs than a six-slot. On the other hand, I doubt that a full 6-slot would be more than 10-20x that current.

-Clay

[kebrank]

Hi,
Any progress on this project?
\o/.k.

[havok1919]

Hi,
Any progress on this project?
\o/.k.

A bit! I have the revised design done at the schematic level, but I haven't turned the PCB yet. Got sucked in to some 'real work' here and had to get past tax season... I'll probably update the board and order another batch of prototypes this month. I'll run the proto2 versions in the arcade for a couple weeks and if there's no problems I'll get production fabs on order and get some built up.

-Clay

[emphatic]

Hi,
Any progress on this project?
\o/.k.

A bit! I have the revised design done at the schematic level, but I haven't turned the PCB yet. Got sucked in to some 'real work' here and had to get past tax season... I'll probably update the board and order another batch of prototypes this month. I'll run the proto2 versions in the arcade for a couple weeks and if there's no problems I'll get production fabs on order and get some built up.

-Clay

Awesomeness. Any idea on the price ball park?

[Ed Oscuro]

I'm still planning on getting one or two of these (depending on the price).

[off topic] Possibly OT, but are you the guy to go to for the Sega 16 (i.e. Shinobi) -> JAMMA convertors or is that somebody else? [/off topic]

[havok1919]

I'm still planning on getting one or two of these (depending on the price).

[off topic] Possibly OT, but are you the guy to go to for the Sega 16 (i.e. Shinobi) -> JAMMA convertors or is that somebody else? [/off topic]

Yeah, I did those back in the day! I did the first op-amp based Nintendo->JAMMA adapters as well as Nichibutsu, Sega16, Konami 36 pin, Capcom, etc. I might still have some bare PCB's around if you need some-- they were simple-- just a connector and PCB. The chinese/hongkong suppliers copied all the JAMMA adapter type stuff I did (and Arcadeshop and most others here in the US) so I just quit building the adapters. No way I was going to be able to out cheap chinese parts and $0.35/hr labor costs and when I went the self-employment route my time got really crunched too...

Oh, also off topic, but in case anyone is looking-- I made some Ikari Warriors to JAMMA adapters for myself and I have a couple spare fabs if anyone needs one. (It just converts the Ikari cardedge to JAMMA so you can use all the audio/video/power there-- it still uses the LS-30's for sticks.)

Pricing on the protectors should still be in the $20-40 range depending on configuration.

-Clay

[Ed Oscuro]

Oh, also off topic, but in case anyone is looking-- I made some Ikari Warriors to JAMMA adapters for myself and I have a couple spare fabs if anyone needs one. (It just converts the Ikari cardedge to JAMMA so you can use all the audio/video/power there-- it still uses the LS-30's for sticks.)

Interesting...I've got a disassembled LS-30 I eBayed a few months back for a Midnight Resistance, though I'm not sure the part you mention would help, would it?

Definitely looking to get a Sega 16 -> JAMMA and possibly a Nichibutsu -> JAMMA (if that one does Armed Formation and Ninja Emaki; I think both of those are just barely pre-JAMMA) sometime, but I can wait until the protector comes out. Thanks!

[Alien Soldier]

I'm definitly interested in 2 deluxe versions (with voltage display and all the other options, the MVS/JAMMA adapter would be nice too)

[rolins]

What's the status of this project? Because I'd like buy one deluxe board.

How many amps does Ikari Warriors actually draw from +5v?
I once used a 15A switching PS which was fine for Toaplan pcbs and MVS, except when I tried play Ikari Warriors and Victory Road they'd either randomly reboot or have bad picture/sound. However none the problems occur when I use a 180w ATX power supply. Ikari & Victory Road board must be fine, so I guess my 15A switching PS is underpowered maybe?

[system11]

What's the status of this project? Because I'd like buy one deluxe board.

How many amps does Ikari Warriors actually draw from +5v?
I once used a 15A switching PS which was fine for Toaplan pcbs and MVS, except when I tried play Ikari Warriors and Victory Road they'd either randomly reboot or have bad picture/sound. However none the problems occur when I use a 180w ATX power supply. Ikari & Victory Road board must be fine, so I guess my 15A switching PS is underpowered maybe?

Probably just needed the +5 turning up slightly - those big 3 layer SNK sets are incredibly greedy, and there's a voltage drop between layers on the ones I've tested.

[Tvspelsfreak.]

I'm interested in a deluxe model.

[CMacDonald]

I'd like to get the deluxe model too, if all the pins (even the normally useless ones) are connected.

FWIW if you are looking for power-hungry games to test, the Konami GX game "Racin' Force" runs incredibly hot, hotter than any board I've ever tried. I'll see if I can measure the current draw on the +5V and +12V rails sometime.

And as somebody else said, yeah, Desert Assault is a bit power hungry.

[havok1919]

Thanks for the feedback guys-- I'm going to try to get some more time on this this month. I put a lot of my spare time in on the "Save The Arcades 2" contest the last couple months (we won, BTW!) but now that that's done I'll get back on some side projects again!

-Clay

[StarCreator]

Just wondering, did anything come of this? I'm probably not interested in one anymore as I no longer own any PCBs, but I could ask around if there are still plans for this.

[havok1919]

Just wondering, did anything come of this? I'm probably not interested in one anymore as I no longer own any PCBs, but I could ask around if there are still plans for this.

I haven't had a chance to do a production release and get anything built yet, but yes, it's still kicking.

We're working on a big remodel for our arcade and that's pretty much taking up all my spare time. Probably won't get around to building any reasonable quantities until after we're done with construction (likely after the 1st of the year).

-Clay