Japanese Language Discussion

[Aru-san]

The thing is, watching anime raw doesn't become effective until you've studied enough to understand about 85% of the content at the least. Before, I was watching anime with subtitles, but I was also actively listening to the voices as well. Now, I mostly watch anime without subtitles because I knew much more than I did while I was still watching them with subs.

If anything, anime is more of a listening comprehension tool IMHO.

[GaijinPunch]

until you've studied enough to understand about 85%

I think that's shooting a bit high. Albeit most anime content is pretty immature at best, I'd say around... err... 3rd year of University level courses you should be on the hunt to find unsubtitled stuff. Get in the habit of hitting the pause button and busting out the dictionary as well.

If anything, anime is more of a listening comprehension tool IMHO.

I find it to be more of a test of patience.

[Aru-san]

Get in the habit of hitting the pause button and busting out the dictionary as well.

I do look up unknown words in the dictionary...but only after I watched the episode. Chances are, if I hear a certain word a few times while watching an anime, the more likely I'll look it up just to know what it is. Other times, I just look up random stuff in the dictionary.

3rd year of University level courses you should be on the hunt to find unsubtitled stuff.

Fun fact: I'm not even in college yet.

I still hunt down unsubtitled stuff anyways because I've been self-studying for almost 5 years and have accumulated a significant lot over those years. It may not be JLPT2 worthy, but at least I can communicate decently in Japanese (with the assistance of Japanese chatrooms and foreign language exchange), and that's really all that matters to me.

[UnscathedFlyingObject]

GP is probably giving a guesstimate since I don't think he went to college for Japanese, and it also depends on where you go for college.

Personally I've avoided bragging about my Japanese skills since I took the hardest Kanji class (JLPT 1kyuu prep) at the place I used to take classes. I was quite ahead of my classmates back then in practically every area and even jumped to the more difficult normal classes because I was getting bored but that Kanji class brought me back to Earth. I had to attempt to memorize dozens of Kanji compounds every week and realized that I really wasn't as good as I thought, which is something I'm thankful about because it made me get really serious with my studies. That was a little over 2 years ago now.

[GaijinPunch]

GP is probably giving a guesstimate since I don't think he went to college for Japanese, and it also depends on where you go for college.

I actually got a major in it when it was painfully obvious I wasn't getting a business degree. I was originally going to be a double major. But, of course, after a LOT of college courses (30 hours worth easily over 4.5 yeras), I learned double or triple that the first year I lived there... kind of like everyone says.

[powerfuran]

Nice topic!

I am currently practicing for 1-kyuu and my basic tools are the Kanzen Master books by 3A Network plus a lot of readings (short novels and essays by Iwanami Shoten are great imho, I bought a ton of those at Shibuya Book Off before leaving Japan last year). I try to read a lot to compensate the scarcity of "content" of the Kanzen Masters. I have to say it works, to a certain degree.
Unfortunately at the moment I am very busy with my job and have literally no time to practice listening, so I'm still doubtful about making it for December. Maybe I'll try next year, though it appears that there will be some changes in JLPT.

I'd like to recommend reading short-short stories, they're perfect on the train, or during lunch-break. Vocabulary is somehow limited, but they're good for getting accustomed to reading a whole story without feeling the urge to look up words in the dict, thus helping in giving up that habit ("oh it's only 3 pages, so I don't need to look up that word").

I'd also recommend giving a look at the 日本語コロケーション辞典 , by Gakken.
http://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/product/imag ... 885&sr=8-1

[steveovig]

Well, I just finished my first week of college level Japanese and I feel good about it. I'm taking an elementary class and it seems like it'll be easy this semester. We aren't even touching katakana but I already know it. It'll be just a matter of learning the vocabulary and re-enforcing what I already know. I hope to graduate in three years with a Japanese BA after some studying abroad and hard studying.

[UnscathedFlyingObject]

Hey, long time no see. Nice to hear you're doing well. Ganbatte!!!

[UnscathedFlyingObject]

Talk: My Japanese Language Story

I just got reminded when I started back in Summer of 2004. A friend of mine had introduced me to the anime Samurai Champloo, and while I enjoyed it very much, reading subtitles annoyed me. So I asked some friends where I could take Japanese and ended up taking classes in a place called Japan Society. At the time, I had no idea what kind of hole I was jumping into but had I known, I'd have never started . It was really rough for me at the beginning since I knew zilch about the language and my family was not supportive at all. My dad thought I went nuts and had my sister and some uncles try to dissuade me from continuing taking classes. That just pissed me off, and I put in insane amounts of time studying during my first class. I learned Kana like the back of my hand, about 100 or so Kanji, and read my beginner book back to back half a dozen times. Before I knew it, I was hooked. I actually started to enjoy learning the language.

I continued studying in Japan Society for about 2 1/2 years and I kind of reached a glass ceiling. The hardest classes were populated mostly by people who had spent time in Japan, so they were much better than me and I had a hard time keeping up with them. Therefore, I decided to start studying on my own and go back once my skills were much better. My last class was a JLPT 1kyuu Kanji class, which totally whipped my ass. It made me realize how much I sucked, and that I had a lot of room for improvement. I started studying for the 2kyuu, and may go back to take classes if I pass this year's test. I'm sure I'll need all the help I can get to pass 1kyuu.

[TLB]

Cool shitbeans, UFO. Thanks for sharing :)

[steveovig]

I'm not sure if I've mentioned this here before in any old threads but I'll give my intro story too. My Japanese experience started with Tokyo Bus Guide for the Dreamcast back in 2004. I had gotten that as a gift in 03 and finally got around to playing it but I was frustrated because I couldn't understand what to do (besides the concept of driving the bus properly). I started to really realize just how beautiful the written language was through this gaming experience. I told myself that I wanted to figure out what they were saying in the game and it all clicked from then on. I started buying books and studying and I had a ton of determination. I didn't have a job and wasn't in school so I figured I had plenty of time to study.

To make a long story short, I studied on and off since then and only became familiar with the kana and a few basic vocab words. I got married in 06 and my wife was also interested in the language. I bought a couple more books and subscribed to Japanese Pod 101 for about a year. I was majoring in History at school but I kept thinking that if my local college offered Japanese as a major, that'd be my first choice. Well, the History thing kinda soured on me and just this year I made the tough decision to find a school that offered a Japanese major and go for it. I found a university about an hour away and I got accepted and here I am. I've still got a ton of determination to learn this damn language and I've recently made a lot of sacrifices and choices in order to achieve that goal.

[Cthulhu]

I've found that text-heavy games, manga, and novels are all excellent study tools as long as you actually, you know, study off them. As in, break out the dictionary and look up things you don't know rather than glossing over them. I still enjoy anime but I never found it to be a good study tool unless you're actively trying to translate it, and even then it can be a frustrating experience due to multiple characters talking simultaneously, poor audio quality, made up series lingo, etc.

[dcharlie]

currently getting back in the groove and going through Slamdunk for pracitce (yeah, unlikely to be on the exam.... )

i did a comparison to the scanslations and they made me want to smash my own face off - jesus christ, why are all scanslations so literal again?

I'm actually thinking of just texting down what i think would be more natural , just so i can post it so i can get the "lol, I am sorry but that's not what koitsu means... the real translation is...." response just so i can justify mass murder.

[UnscathedFlyingObject]

What exam you taking?

[dcharlie]

What exam you taking?

this year - none. Too busy with other stuff, but next year will look at either of the new exams - S2 or S1.

I'm having lessons with the father in law and plan to have every single day (given he lives next door and we are round there every night i'm hoping it's going to pull my current level 3 upwards)

[UnscathedFlyingObject]

NEWS: Japanese Language Proficiency Test (JLPT) vouchers out in the mail.

They should get to you anytime soon. I got mine today! It's a rectangular piece of white cardboard around 5 1/2 by 3 inches with information about your test including location, time, and registration number. You can also print it out online from your account. However, the card is a neat piece of memorabilia . I'll see if I can snap a pic later with my sister's camera.

If anyone is taking the test in New York City, talk to me and let's see if we can meet there.

[UnscathedFlyingObject]

I just gave the 2006 JLPT 2kyuu a try and it went pretty much as I expected. The vocab part was a walk in the park and I got a 92 out of a hundred*. The listening part was much harder for me and I ended up with a 62 out of 100*. Grammar was a cakewalk but I had some issues with the reading, ended up with a 165 out of 200** for the last part. This should be enough to pass the test, but I'm concerned about the lack of leeway.

The 2009 test is on Dec 6, so I still got some time to improve on my listening. My main problem is with questions regarding time, date and location and there's a lot of questions like that on the test. I hope I can do better on the last two JLPT 2 kyuu (2007 and 2008.)


* using the formula they give you to calculate your score out of a hundred. Actual scores use a different scale.
** using the formula they give you to calculate your score out of two-hundred. Actual scores use a different scale.

[adversity1]

Is that a passing score?

2kyuu used to be 70/100 = pass I believe. But the test method has changed so I don't know anymore.

[UnscathedFlyingObject]

Official test guidelines say 60% to pass 2, 3, or 4kyuu and 70% for 1kyuu.

http://www.jflalc.org/?act=tpt&id=21

I just hope it's 60% average for all sections instead of 60% or more for every section. The damned listening section is my Achilles heel. I wouldn't be surprised if I fuck up badly and get around 50% in that section.

[GaijinPunch]

It's 60% cumulative (or 70% for 1-kyuu). You can bomb any of the sections. I did awful on the easy parts but got a cool 84%ish on the Reading & Grammar which pulled me up above 70%. Got the nice "goukaku" stamp.

[UnscathedFlyingObject]

Just finished the 2007 test and I did better overall. I wasn't sure about some of the answers that I got right so might have been luck. However, I score consistently within certain score brackets. The vocab part was easy again and I scored 94% (92% for 2006) with about 8 minutes to spare. My listening score was quite depressing, 59% which is 3 percent less (will have to pray to the testing gods that I do better during the test.) I did quite better in reading and grammar, 89% (compared to 84%.) I think I just got lucky, tho. I took some educated guesses for 4 or so questions in the readings and those are worth 5 points (no idea how it translate to %) a piece.

I wonder how I'll do under the pressure of the real test. I'm no stranger to tests but I always get very nervous. Hopefully, not enough to fuck up major time.

Edit: oh yeah, and thank god it's 60% cumulative. I'll probably have quite a bit of elbowroom.

[GaijinPunch]

The listening part is unfortunately the shittiest when it comes to the under pressure aspect. You can't go back, and if you miss one word in the sentence you've got about a 50/50 chance of getting the answer wrong. I'm sure you'll do fine though.

[UnscathedFlyingObject]

My test voucher. It's pink and purple!

[greg]

I regret not taking the 3-kyu (you're welcome!) test when I was living in Japan. I missed the application deadline by a day. Moving back to the US set me back, but lately I've been cruising through ALC's intermediate language book. It's taken me about 4 years to finally get to chapter 3, but now I'm up to 5 or so. I just study on my lunch breaks and such.

I definitely agree with Cthulu above. games and manga are the best way to study. At home, I'm tackling PS2 games like Ai Yori Aoshi and Shining Tears. I have my DS in hand with the Rakubiki Jiten kanji dictionary software to translate kanji (MUCH easier than counting strokes and such or looking them up by radicals). The kanji are clearer to read on new system than if you're reading them on the PC Engine or the Super Famicom. EVentually when I get to the point where I can identify kanji more easily, I want to get through Galaxy Fraulein Yuna and PC Engine digital comics like Ranma 1/2, Yawara and Nadia.

Oh yeah, and I'm also reading the first manga of Kimagure Orange Road, one of my favorite anime series. Right now I'm too busy reading Denis Leary's "Why We Suck" at the moment, though.

[samu]

I've been grinding for the 2-kyuu test for the last few weeks. I had been thinking about doing JLPT for a long time but never really bothered looking up when and where to do it until this year.

It turned out I was superlucky with the timing. I e-mailed the Japanese teachers' organization of Finland for the application form on a friday, they sent it to me by snail mail the same day. I got it on tuesday the next week, filled in everything and sent it by express mail the same day. The letter arrived the next day which was the day of the deadline... If I had thought of JLPT just one day later I would have had to wait until next year

Yesterday I went through jlpt2 from 2008, it went pretty well except I felt like I spent a looong time on the reading comprehension. I feel like those questions are always designed to fool you so I read over and over to make sure I wasn't neglecting any facts. Of course I won't have that luxury during a real test. To any other 2008 test-takers, otagai gambarimashou ne!

Does anyone here have any links to where you could get answer sheets for the old tests?

[UnscathedFlyingObject]

JLPT 2006 Answers


JLPT 2007 Answers


Just finished taking 2008 and the results are quite ironic. I got a 84% for vocab which is my forte but a 70% for the listening which is my weakness. My biggest shock was the reading section for which I scored a 97% .

If the real test goes anything like any of my mock tests, I'll get my kewl JLPT2 certificate come March 2010 .

Just wondering but what the hell do they do between sections? There are 20 min gaps between each one of them. Can I go to the restroom, take a nap or go out a couple minutes to kill time? My bladder can't take 4 hours without going to the restroom. If they don't let me out, I swear I'll pee myself mid test.

[samu]

Wow, thank you so much! I would have gotten 319/400 = about 80% on the 2006 test. I feel pretty confident now. The listening went the worst, but part of it was the lousy quality of the mp3 I had downloaded. It sounded like it was badly ripped off a tape-recorder with an external microphone or something and with some "mashed frequencies" or however you'd describe it. Also it was pretty weird towards the end, a few exercises just plain started without being announced at all. And it suddenly jumped straight from question 10 to 13.

I didn't have an mp3 for the listening comprehension for 2007, but I calculated that I would have gotten over the limit by only getting two questions right on it.

Also I hadn't really noticed that the points for the three parts were normalized, which probably was good to know.

Finally, I took issue with one of the questions about the study of whether it's better to praise or scold workers. They asked something like "what conclusion could you draw from this study about how to manage workers". The right answer apparently should have been "to keep praising them all the time" because that got the best long term effect. But to me it seemed like combining the praising and the scolding would have been the best because then you could have the positive short-term effect of scolding without the negative long-term effect. Well that's just how those questions are I guess...

[UnscathedFlyingObject]

http://www.mediafire.com/?ykgdkeujg40

2007 test sound. Now get to it and do that last test too.

Edit: they ask you to answer based on the reading, not what you feel it should be.

[samu]

Thanks again man. It was a pleasure listening to a crystal clear CD rip instead of the abomination I was using for 2006. Not sure if the questions were easier or if I just enjoyed the improved audio quality so much, but I scored 22/27 on the 2007 listening comprehension for a total of 325/400 => 81.25%. So both of my complete tests have been over 80% I almost feel it's time to start thinking about JLPT1 already. Hope this didn't make me over-confident

[GaijinPunch]

It's been a while, but I remember at least one of the breaks being abnormally long. I do know that the test in Japan was all day on a Sunday. Like from 10AM to 5PM or some shit, but only about 3.5 hours of actual test time. Signature Japanese ability to not respect the first law of human nature: time is money.