Why is this hobby so damn expensive?!

Shelcoof · Post by **Shelcoof** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 11:23 pm

The hobby is expensive only if you let it be.

Seriously with emulation these days you could play a ton of great shmups for free. It doesn't cover everything available but you still get enough selections.

However if your like me who tries buy every single game he likes then yes it can be expensive.

I'm not going to go out of my way and buy a supergun and an ESPRa.De. PCB just because I love the game. I'll just MAME it instead because I can't afford it.

KindGrind · Post by **KindGrind** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 2:55 am

When looking for rare console stuff, patience is key obviously. I've bought lots of crap around these parts (including copies of ZxZ and Harmful Park) for the price I wanted to pay for them, not a dime more (roughly 100$ each, this year). Ebay BINs have always been quite ridiculous on very rare shmups, while certain traditional auctions have given great deals to some people recently. I feel when the jump in price is very sudden (like Ibara on the PS2) you can expect to find someone who will not look to sell for double the price he paid, but he'd rather make a small profit and let someone else enjoy the game. I did get a copy of Ibara for 60$ quite recently here when other people were selling it for 100$+. This is not being a cheapskate at all, but rather being intelligent with money and knowing how to spot a good deal.

All these things considered, you sometimes have to pay through the nose if you don't feel like being patient... And console stuff is nothing like PCBs, as GP and others said. Last year someone noted the same thing, that the hobby (referring to console stuff) was expensive... and one of the first replies by someone was to stay away from any budget supergun. This piece of advice has assuredly saved me quite a bit of $ and lots of matrimonial trouble.

Not that I am not tempted when I see some of your sexy setups...

Sonic R · Post by **Sonic R** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 3:23 am

What hobby is not expensive?

I was into cars before I returned to video games and got into deep. Let me tell you the car enthusiast hobby was far more expensive! There was a time that I own 5 cars simultaneously! I am now at three cars and one of them belong to the wife… and one sits in my garage in need of service, which has not been attended to as time and money is requirement…

Hibachi · Post by **Hibachi** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 12:29 pm

Mushihimesama and Ibara are up for rediculous prices also.

I managed to snag these for £25 each when I was last in Japan about four years ago.

I even got the limited edtion Mushi with the figure.

It's all about getting stuff at the right time.

I've never played Harmful Park although it looks fun and at the end of the day it's what you think it's worth that counts.

The most I've paid for a game is £90 for Toaplan Shooting Battle on PS1 and I didn't feel ripped off as it was the only version I have ever seen period.

gray117 · Post by **gray117** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 1:02 pm

It's worth bearing in mind there's more than one hobby at work here - collecting and playing.

As games [services] and audiences have involved we've thankfully seen it become easier to actually play a lot of games. But owning them is a different matter entirely.

In such a rapidly developing [- yet time intensive -] business - originals, loss of source materials and rights will often prevent reproduction of many games.

Similarly, if you actually want to reward the people that made older games sometimes you're best bet is not to buy the game, but find their current company and go buy some t-shirts directly off them, or their newest game, or whatever. I think I heard Tim Schafer musing about this ... and old games .... and profits ...

Finally, at the moment, there is not a massive demand for shmups in comparison. Nor is there a massive amount of people who want to make shmups. Even less who want to remake a shmup they've already made. On top of that, the number of people who will put up the money to develop, port, or even emulate shmups. Finally, some companies will not want to advertise themselves with old games - they/their backers will feel that in order to attract new investment, new product is the way go - impressive old product will most likely de-rail more recent image efforts and/or have all their lucrative rights tied up elsewhere...

The only thing that will change this are the purchases of NEW games/ports... and if you have to import - yes that typically adds cost... But in reality; the growth in games has been due to a lowering of the 'barrier to entry', although shmups are easily accessable conceptually their barrier to entry is still pretty high - this goes right to the heart of many shmups; the nature of [re]playing finely tuned content.

This could change and thematically shmups can also adjust - but this will also displease many existing shmup fans - and its still a risk.

While I infer a lot of your question regards old games; the only thing that will change this are the purchases of NEW games/ports... and if you have to import - yes that typically adds cost...

$ will talk ... but I suspect you would need several games in the $1 mill profit or more to the publisher [not retail] region before you turn enough heads to attract real investment and publicity.

Beyond that [looks into crystal ball] emulation progress, consolidation of hardware and OS systems and the maturity of downloadable services will go a long way to make it cheaper ... But you'll be waiting a long ass time...

After all of this - ever regreted a purchase you've made in this hobby?

BIL · Post by **BIL** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 1:08 pm

Shelcoof wrote:The hobby is expensive only if you let it be.

Seriously with emulation these days you could play a ton of great shmups for free. It doesn't cover everything available but you still get enough selections.

That's kind of a moot point, though. Any genre can be dirt cheap if you pirate. Same goes for most digital media, period.

DJ Incompetent · Post by **DJ Incompetent** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 1:37 pm

STGs are the cheapest hobby if you actually play the damn games ya got since most of them are $10-$30 or easy to steal.

Let's run evil_ash_xero through a search of the hi scores forum. Oh look at that. 0 results.

Stop complaining, put the wallet down, and turn on your frikkin' console.

louisg · Post by **louisg** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 2:44 pm

A lot of the import releases are expensive, but you can also find a lot of great shooters for cheap. I got my copy of RayForce for $4 and it turned into one of my favorite games for example.

Speaking of which, has it been only recently that Saturn games (besides RSG) have been over $100? It seems insane that a game like Hyper Duel would command such a high price.

KindGrind · Post by **KindGrind** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 4:52 pm

The asking price for Hyper Duel has been 150$+ for more than a year, and Blastwind -for quite a while- and Garegga (from 60$ to 90-100$ within the last year) are around the 100$ mark. Stellar Assault is still 130$+ and don't forget Taromaru, depending on condition and extras, at 230-350$. So yep, Saturn games, minty and with spine can set you back quite a bit if you want everything.

And Hyper Duel is considerably rarer than RSG, IIRC. I've seen 2 copies around here in the last year, whereas RSG seems to be showing up quite often. Same goes for Ebay.

evil_ash_xero · Post by **evil_ash_xero** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 6:54 pm

DJ Incompetent wrote:STGs are the cheapest hobby if you actually play the damn games ya got since most of them are $10-$30 or easy to steal.

Let's run evil_ash_xero through a search of the hi scores forum. Oh look at that. 0 results.

Stop complaining, put the wallet down, and turn on your frikkin' console.

Oh please, all I do is PLAY my games. Just because I don't put up my high scores doesn't mean I don't play. I just suck, so I don't put up my scores.

Sonic R · Post by **Sonic R** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 8:55 pm

evil_ash_xero wrote:
DJ Incompetent wrote:STGs are the cheapest hobby if you actually play the damn games ya got since most of them are $10-$30 or easy to steal.

Let's run evil_ash_xero through a search of the hi scores forum. Oh look at that. 0 results.

Stop complaining, put the wallet down, and turn on your frikkin' console.
Oh please, all I do is PLAY my games. Just because I don't put up my high scores doesn't mean I don't play. I just suck, so I don't put up my scores.

I suck hard and I still post up scores *shrug*
Have fun times

Dragoforce · Post by **Dragoforce** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 9:28 pm

DJ Incompetent wrote:STGs are the cheapest hobby if you actually play the damn games ya got since most of them are $10-$30 or easy to steal.

Good point. If you really dedicate yourself to a single game (which I understand is not for everyone) shmups can be really cheap, even if you buy the more expensive games. For me, high scores and competing against other people is what this hobby is all about. Waste time, not money

evil_ash_xero · Post by **evil_ash_xero** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 9:37 pm

Well, I mean, you can get a lot of them cheaply, but some you just can't. Unfortunately, a lot of the ones you "just can't" are some of the best ones(battle garegga, do donpachi(ps), radiant silvergun etc.).

ncp · Post by **ncp** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 10:18 pm

Battle Garegga and Dodonpachi? Just play them in MAME like the rest of the world does.

escadrille · Post by **escadrille** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 10:30 pm

I think it depends if you view shmups as a gaming hobby or a collecting hobby. If you just want to play the games and don't care how then there are hardly any that you can't get your hands on for nothing or almost nothing.

When it comes to collecting original hardware or software then I don't see it as any more expensive than any other type of serious collecting. They all get pretty expensive. I think it's part of the appeal since most collectors like to talk about how much their collection cost them.

evil_ash_xero · Post by **evil_ash_xero** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 10:36 pm

ncp wrote:Battle Garegga and Dodonpachi? Just play them in MAME like the rest of the world does.

Well, some of us like to play them on the TV.

Kollision · Post by **Kollision** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 10:48 pm

evil_ash_xero wrote:
ncp wrote:Battle Garegga and Dodonpachi? Just play them in MAME like the rest of the world does.
Well, some of us like to play them on the TV.

Seconded.
Down with MAME, real console hardware is the shit!

(don't come with PCB preaching pls)

Nate · Post by **Nate** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 10:49 pm

This hobby is not expensive! Just look at these deals!!!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ELIMINATE-DOWN-sega ... .m20.l1116

http://cgi.ebay.com/R-Type-Delta-PlaySt ... .m20.l1116

http://cgi.ebay.com/Sale-1941-COUNTER-A ... .m20.l1116

http://cgi.ebay.com/BRAND-NEW-IKARUGA-G ... 1|294%3A50

http://cgi.ebay.com/R-TYPE-III-3-SNES-S ... 1|294%3A50

http://cgi.ebay.com/Thunder-Force-Gold- ... .m20.l1116

http://cgi.ebay.com/BANGAIOH-nintendo-6 ... 1|294%3A50

ooh, haven't seen a price like this in a while:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Pulstar-Neo-Geo-AES ... .m20.l1116

professor ganson · Post by **professor ganson** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 10:51 pm

evil_ash_xero wrote:
DJ Incompetent wrote:STGs are the cheapest hobby if you actually play the damn games ya got since most of them are $10-$30 or easy to steal.

Let's run evil_ash_xero through a search of the hi scores forum. Oh look at that. 0 results.

Stop complaining, put the wallet down, and turn on your frikkin' console.
Oh please, all I do is PLAY my games. Just because I don't put up my high scores doesn't mean I don't play. I just suck, so I don't put up my scores.

Forgive him. DJ Incompetent isn't usually that asshole-ish.

Shelcoof · Post by **Shelcoof** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 10:58 pm

Kollision wrote:
evil_ash_xero wrote:
ncp wrote:Battle Garegga and Dodonpachi? Just play them in MAME like the rest of the world does.
Well, some of us like to play them on the TV.
Seconded.
Down with MAME, real console hardware is the shit!

(don't come with PCB preaching pls)

I play MAME on TV all the time.. looks gorgeous on HD

DJ Incompetent · Post by **DJ Incompetent** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 11:40 pm

professor ganson wrote:
evil_ash_xero wrote:
DJ Incompetent wrote:STGs are the cheapest hobby if you actually play the damn games ya got since most of them are $10-$30 or easy to steal.

Let's run evil_ash_xero through a search of the hi scores forum. Oh look at that. 0 results.

Stop complaining, put the wallet down, and turn on your frikkin' console.
Oh please, all I do is PLAY my games. Just because I don't put up my high scores doesn't mean I don't play. I just suck, so I don't put up my scores.
Forgive him. DJ Incompetent isn't usually that asshole-ish.

Meant no disrespect, mang. Somebody had to say it.

Also, Ikaruga $5 on live this week. Sheeeeit.

evil_ash_xero · Post by **evil_ash_xero** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 11:54 pm

I play MAME on TV all the time.. looks gorgeous on HD

Actually, at some point I would like to hook up a PC to a HDTV. What kind of inbetween would I need(cord or convertor).

ncp · Post by **ncp** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 11:58 pm

Well, claiming the hobby is expensive but refusing to use MAME is kind of like claiming that watching movies is an expensive hobby because you'll only watch them on a $10,000 TV.

Davey · Post by **Davey** » Tue Jul 14, 2009 2:22 am

evil_ash_xero wrote:Actually, at some point I would like to hook up a PC to a HDTV. What kind of inbetween would I need(cord or convertor).

It should be really simple and cheap. Depending on what kind of output your video card has:

HDMI: You're already set, just buy a $2 HDMI cable online.

DVI: DVI to HDMI converters are pretty cheap (or a cable with HDMI on one end and DVI on the other)
VGA: Many, but not all, TVs have VGA port. Unless your computer is several years old, it'll probably have HDMI or DVI though.

Post by **Ghegs** » Tue Jul 14, 2009 7:31 am

ncp wrote:Well, claiming the hobby is expensive but refusing to use MAME is kind of like claiming that watching movies is an expensive hobby because you'll only watch them on a $10,000 TV.

No, more accurate comparison would be claiming that watching movies is expensive and then somebody points out that "You can download all movies for free from the interwebs, DUH LOL". Some people like to actually buy their DVDs/Blue-Rays, some people like to actually buy their games.

ncp · Post by **ncp** » Tue Jul 14, 2009 8:27 pm

Except usually when you download a movie online it's terrible quality, as opposed to a pixel perfect emulation of an arcade game. And the fact that most movies are actually still being sold while most games you'd play on MAME are long out of print, hard to find, and often not even accurate, that is if they even have a port to begin with.

edit: but really that's irrelevant. The point is you CAN play shmups for cheap, it's only expensive if you want it to be. Even without MAME you can play many shmups cheap.

louisg · Post by **louisg** » Tue Jul 14, 2009 10:57 pm

ncp wrote:Except usually when you download a movie online it's terrible quality, as opposed to a pixel perfect emulation of an arcade game.

MAME is about as much worse compared to the actual arcade machines as a downloaded movie is to a DVD. Some common issues: input lag, beats between monitor and game refresh causing jitter, wrong resolutions causing a variety of headaches (pick your poison), and even incomplete graphics emulation and crashes on some games.

And piracy is just that, regardless of whether a game is still being pressed and sold.. unless the rights to the games are abandoned. And not to mention that small vendors on eBay try to sell used games, and this hurts them. (sorry for all the edits on this paragraph =))

bucklemyshoe · Post by **bucklemyshoe** » Wed Jul 15, 2009 12:11 am

Truth, most Playstation shmup collectors even when they buy actual copies of the game still play burned copies.

Or at least I do.

Ed Oscuro · Post by **Ed Oscuro** » Wed Jul 15, 2009 12:42 am

This hobby really isn't that expensive, especially if you're a good player (unlike me) and don't buy just to collect (again like me) and especially if you don't aim at capturing runs off original hardware.

You want an expensive hobby? Try photography, where you can easily blow $1000+ on a single lens, and that amount again every other year on a new camera body (more if you go for the full-size sensors, and like 20-40 times that much if you go for medium format digital, and medium format film isn't terribly inexpensive either).

TrevHead (TVR) · Post by **TrevHead (TVR)** » Wed Jul 15, 2009 12:43 am

I suppose that if u pay alot of money for a game u r gonna want to play it alot to make sure you get ur moneys worth out of it. Just like when i was a kid and couldnt afford many games (still cant atm aswell lol) so i played the hell outta em. Compared today where most ppl will just scratch the surface of a game b4 moving onto a new one.

If you are gonna spend months playing it then is £100 or whatever alot of money? (to me yes cos im skint atm lol)
Also when ur finished with the game u can always sell it and get ur money back.

shmups.system11.org

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