So What's the Reason the 360 is NOT the new Shmup Console?

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 3:06 am

-Cave stuff doesn't leave Japan. It's just a fact. That's how it goes.

In their defense, they've only published a whopping total of one of their games. If you want to bitch about their lack of western focus, blame their publishers up until now (Atlus, Taito, 5PB, and AMI).

They don't have a US Subsidiary for their games, so releasing one there (or anywhere) isn't so simple.

Its not sad, its the one publisher who has 11 out of the 25 shmups in this year's list. Its the only publisher who has 3 games out or coming out on the 360 (ketsui, Death Smiles, Mushi 1.5) that you cannot play any other way unless you buy a PCB.

Developer...not publisher. Slight difference [read: huge difference]. They have only published one game ever (Death Smiles for the 360). All other PCBs and home ports were published by someone else. In fact, they didnt' start publishing their own CDs until ESPGaluda.

How much of the game they own is also in question. My guess is that anything they've done through AMI they can publish themselves w/ no licensing fees to AMI. Anything before that, they were generally the publisher's bitch.

Daika110 · Post by **Daika110** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 3:15 am

Has Cave totally ruled out developing for the PS3 in Japan? Obviously that would be huge if they changed their mind because the PS3 is not region locked.

bucklemyshoe · Post by **bucklemyshoe** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 3:58 am

Daika110 wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong but even Japanese disc based shooter releases on the japan 360 are small in number. I think I've read about maybe four or five decent shmups being released for the JAP 360. If true that's pretty sparse in my opinion. Other than Cave I believe some of the other ports have been pretty poor based on reviews I've read.

As to importing a Japanese 360 - I don't see that its worth it as of yet. I'll stick with my Saturn and its awesome shmup library for the time being.

Can someone please post a list of the essential 360 shmups released so far?

Just a list of 360 shmups

While not announced, DDP DFK and SnR DUO will most likely end up as ports on the 360

Death Smiles
Dodonpachi DOJ BLEX
Otomedius Gorgeous
Shooting Love 200X
Raiden IV (for the time being)
Mushihimesama Futari
Ketsui
Mamoru-kun wa Norowarete Shimatta
Shikigami no Shiro III

Non Shooting:

iDOLM@STER
iDOLM@STER Live For You
Dream Club
cheaper asian games (in english!)

PepsimanVsJoe · Post by **PepsimanVsJoe** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 4:27 am

Might as well quit bugging out and get used to it. I hear Illvello for the Wii is US-bound so you can pick that up. It's Milestone though so I dunno what you'd think of that.

Elixir · Post by **Elixir** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 4:38 am

Do you really think Cave will develop games for the PS3 now that Death Smiles has been released for the 360, with a very strong rate (35k copies sold so far)? Same with Konami, who released Otomedius which also sold around that amount. Ketsui's coming to it as well, although the port is highly likely to be bad. There's also Mamorukun later this month. And Futari.. eventually. Sometime before the end of 2010, that is.

My first JP 360 died. I imported another one. I'd import another if my current one broke. It's worth it.

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 5:27 am

Daika110 wrote:Has Cave totally ruled out developing for the PS3 in Japan? Obviously that would be huge if they changed their mind because the PS3 is not region locked.

I would say so. At least for now.

MDY · Post by **MDY** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 8:50 am

I think something has just been announced that could possibly mean western shmup releases are more likely. At E3, MS announced that they will be releasing a range of formally disc based 360 titles as downloadable games... similar to how some of the old back compatible Xbox titles appeared as downloads.

I would assume this could greatly simplify the publishing process as there should be a minimal cost involved - no media or boxes to produce or promotional costs - and would just be available to buy with MS points..

Erinu · Post by **Erinu** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 9:51 am

MDY wrote:I think something has just been announced that could possibly mean western shmup releases are more likely. At E3, MS announced that they will be releasing a range of formally disc based 360 titles as downloadable games... similar to how some of the old back compatible Xbox titles appeared as downloads.

I would assume this could greatly simplify the publishing process as there should be a minimal cost involved - no media or boxes to produce or promotional costs - and would just be available to buy with MS points..

And meanwhile they snip you by charging $200 for 120 GB hard drives... yeah, great plan. Maybe it's only for older 360 titles that sell cheap these days?

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 10:23 am

http://www.amazon.com/Xbox-360-120GB-Ha ... 977&sr=8-1

Erinu · Post by **Erinu** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 10:49 am

Yeah, because, you know, $120 for a 120 GB HDD isn't overpriced at all. It's not like I couldn't buy one for half the price for PC, or anything.

To note, the ones I was talking about were on play-asia for $189.95. If Microsoft wind up releasing old 360 titles as downloadable content, they're going to make a HUGE amount of profit out of selling HDDs, so it's just recycling the past really.. how on earth are people assuming CAVE titles will come out because of this news? It's just stupid.

agustusx · Post by **agustusx** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 1:54 pm

Kinda Off topic: as much as the HD is overpriced, its a matter of value to the user. Sure I have 3 or so TB on my computers, but that does not benefit my living room gaming lifestyle. You definitely can live without a larger HD, but over time there have been many benefits (like Rockband libraries, xbox originals, movies and large arcade games).

It doesn't really help shooters much unless you have a j360, a J live account and they decide to put a retail shooter as DLC. That way if you never wanted to import the disc you could use your J account to download. I would simply buy the disc and wait for it to arrive...

This does not mean I think the 360 is a bad shmup system for this generation, for me the HD is a non-issue. This biggest complaint I have is that I have had my US 360 die twice, and I hope my J last me a bit. Even if were to pass on, I would pay to get it fixed or buy a new one before Futari arrived. It's still much cheaper than a PCB and supergun or cab.

nem · Post by **nem** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 2:35 pm

Aru-san wrote:
DJ Incompetent wrote:-Cave stuff doesn't leave Japan. It's just a fact.
DonPachi, Progear, and Shin Megami Tensei: Imagine would like to have a word with you.

Don't forget Steep Slope Sliders

dcharlie · Post by **dcharlie** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 2:58 pm

I've got my fingers cross for you guys that they go the Playstation PSN route and forget to add in the regioning so you can buy all the J-goodies for download from your accounts.

But, yeah, given Wolfenstien 3D is IP locked , i'm guessing it's a long shot :/

Post by **spadgy** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 10:01 pm

bucklemyshoe wrote:
Just a list of 360 shmups

Didn't you miss Raiden Fighters Aces?

And in response to the subject of this thread – it is isn't it? I've never been anti-360, and had one since launch, but until the shooters came I was fairly unenthusiastic about it. Now I love my 360!

redeyeguy_KIO · Post by **redeyeguy_KIO** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 1:18 pm

Now that Wii's Virtual Console has ARCADE games included, we may be seeing some quality shmups released for it in time.

Hibachi · Post by **Hibachi** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 3:02 pm

Try living in the UK.

That's even worse for shmups. At least you have Raiden Fighters aces and Raiden IV on the way.

I've imported and will buy whatever machine is required to play the games I want to play.

As a side note I read today that the 360 is apparantly halfway through it's life cycle which is strange considering I'm now on my fifth UK Xbox.

That's about one a year. Yes I have a JP console but I am living in fear that it will die any minute and I've had it three months.

The price you pay I suppose.

Ed Oscuro · Post by **Ed Oscuro** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 3:05 pm

DJ Incompetent wrote:Also, remember the part where the west hates hard games.

Quite a turn-around from the days when Treasure was made to increase the difficulty of their games for release on the Genesis...

Acid King · Post by **Acid King** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 3:23 pm

Hibachi wrote:Try living in the UK.

It's revenge for you guys getting Homura, Psyvariar 2 and Dragon Blaze on PS2.

Kiken · Post by **Kiken** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 3:30 pm

Acid King wrote:
Hibachi wrote:Try living in the UK.

It's revenge for you guys getting Homura, Psyvariar 2 and Dragon Blaze on PS2.

...and both Gunbirds, the Sengoku games and the Strikers 1945 pack.

MDY · Post by **MDY** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 10:24 pm

Erinu wrote:And meanwhile they snip you by charging $200 for 120 GB hard drives... yeah, great plan. Maybe it's only for older 360 titles that sell cheap these days?

It probably will be to start with - but as I said it MIGHT lead to a more viable publishing route for more niche products - besides, I bet most 360 shmups don't come anywhere near a GB, never mind filling a DVD...
OK, the 20's are a bit tiny now they allow full game installs - but I bought a 60gb 360 - have a ton of arcade titles, game trailers etc and the 3-4 games I currently play most and have ~30gb left...

`Throwdown · Post by **`Throwdown** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 12:57 am

P_HAT wrote:All VC games can be played via emulators for 1) Free 2) Better controls 3) Better emulation 4) Better visuals 5) Free XD

LOL PC FTW. Good point.

But meh, I'd love to see the US 360's get more shmup support then it's getting. :/ Bring over DoDon and Soldner. Better yet... a new Giga Wing for the next gen.

... yeah, right.

Kiken · Post by **Kiken** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 1:12 am

`Throwdown wrote:But meh, I'd love to see the US 360's get more shmup support then it's getting. :/ Bring over DoDon and Soldner. Better yet... a new Giga Wing for the next gen.

... yeah, right.

DDP DOJ BLEX needs to be patched before any localizing occurs.

dai jou bu · Post by **dai jou bu** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 3:49 am

angrycoder wrote:The fact of the matter is that cave is the major producer of new shmups.

Oh please.

bucklemyshoe · Post by **bucklemyshoe** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 5:15 am

spadgy wrote:
bucklemyshoe wrote:
Just a list of 360 shmups
Didn't you miss Raiden Fighters Aces?

And in response to the subject of this thread – it is isn't it? I've never been anti-360, and had one since launch, but until the shooters came I was fairly unenthusiastic about it. Now I love my 360!

I left it out cause it's out in the US.

`Throwdown · Post by **`Throwdown** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 5:36 am

BTW, screw having to get a Japanese 360. I want these games to be released over here without having to go out of my way to get into the Asian game market. It's an American console for crying out loud. Whatever they get, MS should have them ported over here as well.

Theres plenty of shmup players here in the US that would buy the games and further there profits. Look at this message board. Kinda frustrating looking at their shmup availability and then lookin at whats released over here. I was surpised we would even get the 2 Raiden titles.

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 8:57 am

Erinu wrote: To note, the ones I was talking about were on play-asia for $189.95.

I didn't know you were forced to buy from them.

Theres plenty of shmup players here in the US that would buy the games and further there profits.

Yeah, that's why the few that are released there are generally far cheaper than in Japan.

Post by **spadgy** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:17 pm

Kiken wrote:
Acid King wrote:
Hibachi wrote:Try living in the UK.

It's revenge for you guys getting Homura, Psyvariar 2 and Dragon Blaze on PS2.
...and both Gunbirds, the Sengoku games and the Strikers 1945 pack.

Yeah - we had it OK for the PS2 era, thanks in part to 505 Games, and a particular member of staff in the Italian office of 505's then parent-company who had good contacts in Japan and a soft-spot for the genre. I don't know many more details, but I have a pretty good mate at 505's UK office. Sadly now they only need invest attention in the Cooking Mama series, and subsequently are a bit big league.

A little more on topic, I haven't heard anything industry-wise, but I'm quietly confident we may see Raiden IV in the UK, even if it's a while away...

SkylineR32 · Post by **SkylineR32** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 8:06 pm

Cave stuff doesn't leave Japan. It's just a fact. That's how it goes. There's many reasons, but other people could explain the story better than I could. Also, remember the part where the west hates hard games

3 words, Steep Slope Sliders for the Sega Saturn

I haven't posted here in a while but I'm in the same boat. I have a massive amount of shooters across many platforms, mostly Saturn, DC and PS2. I've imported since the early 90's and have spent a truckload over the years. But I did some sums yesterday and if I want to play Death Smiles it's going to cost me in excess of AU$550. Waaaay too much I'm afraid.

Post by **spadgy** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 8:28 am

SkylineR32 wrote: I haven't posted here in a while but I'm in the same boat. I have a massive amount of shooters across many platforms, mostly Saturn, DC and PS2. I've imported since the early 90's and have spent a truckload over the years. But I did some sums yesterday and if I want to play Death Smiles it's going to cost me in excess of AU$550. Waaaay too much I'm afraid.

Patience is your friend here. I got a really sweet deal on a JPN 360 for sale in the UK on these forums. Unit only, but as I had all the cables from my UK 360 - £100 and a 20 minute bus ride and I was sorted. Just keep checking the trading station!

manaka · Post by **manaka** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 8:40 am

Daika110 wrote:That's pretty sad if the JAP 360 is the shmup console to own due to ONE publisher's support.

One? How about 'all the shmup companies worth playing?'

Cave? Check.
G.rev? Check.
Treasure? Check.
Warashi, Triangle Service, Seibu Kaihatsu, Konami? Check.

Who else were you expecting?