all the games on this site are legal to download. It's a good place to start.
Winuae is a pretty good emulator, but there's no reason to spend money on it, as it's completely free.
And frankly, the 1.3 and 3.1 Kickstart roms *deserve* to be pirated at that point. It's pathetic that someone still holds the Amiga copyright and do nothing worthy with it.
Interesting. I would just emulate on WinUAE, because you can buy the kickstart roms, but with the games there's always the legality issue. I mean, it's not like there's a site equivalent to Atariage.com for Amiga games, where it's legal to download the games.
As far as WHDLoad goes, I found this: http://www.whdload.de/ But how would I get the files onto an Amiga??
If I can play the games legally on our PC without actually owning an Amiga, that would be perfectly fine by me.
WHDLoad will install games from floppies/images on to the hard drive. Many adf's won't work for this purpose, because WHDLoad (generally) only supports the original version and not cracked versions, although there are exceptions - it depends on the game. You can use CAPS images just fine though.
As far as installing WHDLoad itself onto an Amiga, there are a number of ways. With classic Amiga hardware, you could use a network card, ZIP disk, or PC-formatted DSDD floppy to copy them onto the Amiga. I have a network card in my Amiga, so if you needed me to send you a copy of the WHDLoad installer I could do so.
As long as you own the original Kickstart ROMs (whether through Amiga Forever or because you actually own an Amiga) and Workbench, it is perfectly legal to do whatever you want with the Amiga software you own, including use of WHDLoad.
And finally, there IS a site for legal amiga downloads: Back to the Roots.
edit - whoops, sorry, didn't notice mention of back2roots above.
Thanks! I can't find any of the bigger shmup titles on that site, though.
I love Rendering Rangers, and Super Turrican 2-the latter seems to be a Turrican game made specifically for the SNES, what with the Mode 7 effects and all that. Good thing it's on the Virtual Console, because it costs upwards of $70 on Ebay!
Do you guys think that Amiga games will ever make it onto the VC?
I'm reading through a great book on Commodore called: "On the edge : the spectacular rise and fall of Commodore". They really were bigger in Europe from the start-the author notes the success of Commodore UK, and how they hired people who were hobbyists who would have done their jobs for free!
It's pretty amazing how far ahead the PET was, compared to Apple!
"Farewell to false pretension
Farewell to hollow words
Farewell to fake affection
Farewell, tomorrow burns"
It depends on what time period you were talking about. Early on Commodore's supply chain might have held them through, and at some points they may have leapfrogged Apple's offerings (certainly in terms of price). At the time of the PET vs. Apple II, though, the Apple II was the winner.
Interesting. I would just emulate on WinUAE, because you can buy the kickstart roms, but with the games there's always the legality issue. I mean, it's not like there's a site equivalent to Atariage.com for Amiga games, where it's legal to download the games.
As far as WHDLoad goes, I found this: http://www.whdload.de/ But how would I get the files onto an Amiga??
If I can play the games legally on our PC without actually owning an Amiga, that would be perfectly fine by me.
WHDLoad will install games from floppies/images on to the hard drive. Many adf's won't work for this purpose, because WHDLoad (generally) only supports the original version and not cracked versions, although there are exceptions - it depends on the game. You can use CAPS images just fine though.
As far as installing WHDLoad itself onto an Amiga, there are a number of ways. With classic Amiga hardware, you could use a network card, ZIP disk, or PC-formatted DSDD floppy to copy them onto the Amiga. I have a network card in my Amiga, so if you needed me to send you a copy of the WHDLoad installer I could do so.
As long as you own the original Kickstart ROMs (whether through Amiga Forever or because you actually own an Amiga) and Workbench, it is perfectly legal to do whatever you want with the Amiga software you own, including use of WHDLoad.
And finally, there IS a site for legal amiga downloads: Back to the Roots.
edit - whoops, sorry, didn't notice mention of back2roots above.
Thanks! I can't find any of the bigger shmup titles on that site, though.
I love Rendering Rangers, and Super Turrican 2-the latter seems to be a Turrican game made specifically for the SNES, what with the Mode 7 effects and all that. Good thing it's on the Virtual Console, because it costs upwards of $70 on Ebay!
Do you guys think that Amiga games will ever make it onto the VC?
I'm reading through a great book on Commodore called: "On the edge : the spectacular rise and fall of Commodore". They really were bigger in Europe from the start-the author notes the success of Commodore UK, and how they hired people who were hobbyists who would have done their jobs for free!
It's pretty amazing how far ahead the PET was, compared to Apple!
Commodore had the most incompetent executives ever, even worse than Sega.
From what I read, when they went bankrupt, the A1200 was the most sold computer in UK, the CD32 was sold-out and they couldn't keep with the demand, and the C64 was STILL SELLING.
How the fuck a companay has 3 big-selling products and go bankrupt?
Shatterhand wrote:Commodore had the most incompetent executives ever, even worse than Sega.
From what I read, when they went bankrupt, the A1200 was the most sold computer in UK, the CD32 was sold-out and they couldn't keep with the demand, and the C64 was STILL SELLING.
How the fuck a companay has 3 big-selling products and go bankrupt?
Of course, a lot of tech companies suddenly hit a brick wall when they had to go professional, and amateur hacks or small teams couldn't make products for the market. Some companies ran into trouble over backwards compatibility (I think Sir Clive ran into both of these problems).
That said, Commodore's troubles do seem to presage Sega's, as both companies went "lol great new products coming" and just splintered the hell out of their market share. By way of comparison, NEC owned the Japanese computer hardware market for years pre-1992 (or so, I don't remember the date), but as they had been making lots of models with limited compatibility between them, when DOS-V appeared people started flocking to that standardized platform.
Quite a shame really, but vague standards and tons of cheap hardware designs won out over lots of systems with fewer parts sources.
If you're lamenting Turrican, you can always Play 'I can't believe it's not Turrican 4'. It's just Rendering Rangers with a patch applied, but it does make the game slightly more interesting!
Various Amiga models have a variety of modes they can display in. For the A600's modes, IIRC, Low Res NTSC is 320x200, PAL is 320x256 in 32 colors (64 halfbrite or 4096 HAM). It can also do 640x200 NTSC or 640x256 in 16 Colors (Hi Res mode). Then there are the Hi Res Laced modes which are 640x480 (interlaced NTSC) and 640x512 (interlaced PAL), 16 colors, tall pixels. Finally, you have the Low Res Laced modes, which are 320x480 and 320x512, which have wide pixels and can display 32/64/4096 colors.
The Low Res Laced modes are used almost exclusively for displaying images, whereas almost all games and demos run in regular Low Res (generally PAL). Hi Res is the standard Workbench mode (especially on a TV), although some people use Hi Res Laced if they can deal with the flicker.
We here shall not rest until we have made a drawing-room of your shaft, and if you do not all finally go down to your doom in patent-leather shoes, then you shall not go at all.
Does that mean the games run with progressive scan when connected to a TV through the RF?
Are there ways to run an Amiga in RGB mode for better video quality?
The reason I asked about getting an NTSC A1200 is because there's got to be plenty of NTSC software for it-I realize that it did a lot better in Europe, but I'm guessing it was no slouch over here.
What was the biggest IBM PC for gaming in the late '80's? I remember that the IBM game section at Software ETC was the biggest, by far.
"Farewell to false pretension
Farewell to hollow words
Farewell to fake affection
Farewell, tomorrow burns"
Stan - No, the Amiga doesn't output progressive scan in any meaningful way, all of the modes I listed are at 15khz. The A1200/A4000 can do some VGA-like modes, but they're not used for games. As for RGB mode, the native output of the Amiga is RGB. You can connect one using an SCART cable directly to an RGB television.
Dave - You're wrong about NTSC software, especially with the A1200 (since it came out towards the end of the Amiga's lifecycle). There are some games that run in NTSC, notably the Cinemaware titles, but the vast majority are PAL. However, as I said before, as long as you have an ECS or better machine with 1MB chip RAM, you can use PAL and NTSC modes with no problem if your monitor supports it. If your'e looking for an A1200, an NTSC machine (or at least US power supply) would indeed be better because you can run it off line voltage with no issues, but the software doesn't care at all what region your machine is, and a lot of PAL software will in fact switch to PAL mode upon starting.
We here shall not rest until we have made a drawing-room of your shaft, and if you do not all finally go down to your doom in patent-leather shoes, then you shall not go at all.
it290 wrote:Various Amiga models have a variety of modes they can display in. For the A600's modes, IIRC, Low Res NTSC is 320x200, PAL is 320x256 in 32 colors (64 halfbrite or 4096 HAM)...
But those two first mentioned are not interlaced, right
Thanks
it290 wrote:Stan - No, the Amiga doesn't output progressive scan in any meaningful way, all of the modes I listed are at 15khz. The A1200/A4000 can do some VGA-like modes, but they're not used for games. As for RGB mode, the native output of the Amiga is RGB. You can connect one using an SCART cable directly to an RGB television.
Dave - You're wrong about NTSC software, especially with the A1200 (since it came out towards the end of the Amiga's lifecycle). There are some games that run in NTSC, notably the Cinemaware titles, but the vast majority are PAL. However, as I said before, as long as you have an ECS or better machine with 1MB chip RAM, you can use PAL and NTSC modes with no problem if your monitor supports it. If your'e looking for an A1200, an NTSC machine (or at least US power supply) would indeed be better because you can run it off line voltage with no issues, but the software doesn't care at all what region your machine is, and a lot of PAL software will in fact switch to PAL mode upon starting.
Ok, what about earlier Amiga models? And what about NTSC software for the C64? There is that plug-and-play C64 joystick that is NTSC compatible.
As far as the company goes, I would encourage everyone with a remote interest in Commodore to read that book. It's fascinating, and it gives the best insight, that I know of, into the company's management practices. At one point, they were selling 5,000 C64's a DAY!
Even the VIC-20 amazes me-I've seen Gorf running on that on Youtube, and it looks fantastic!
"Farewell to false pretension
Farewell to hollow words
Farewell to fake affection
Farewell, tomorrow burns"
Stan - correct, and yes they are progressive in the 240p sense, just like an SNES or Genesis, etc. Normally when people say 'progressive scan' they mean 480p, so that's why I answered in the negative. The 640x200 mode is also not interlaced.
Dave - earlier Amiga models are not able to switch between NTSC/PAL modes, so they are locked to whatever video mode their region is. As I said before, software will still generally run, but often not correctly. This means that the A1000, A500, and A2000 stock can not switch between NTSC/PAL. When upgraded with the Fat Agnus chip, however, they can. Avoid the A1000, though, since it's barely expandable and pretty much useless in general (nice collection piece though).
As for the C64, it uses the same video modes in NTSC/PAL, but there are timing differences (NTSC is faster). The majority of C64 software will run on either one, but will be faster on the NTSC machine unless the software compensates. That's why, if you've ever used a software SID player, there is an NTSC/PAL switch - because users are accustomed to music playing at 'their' speed.
We here shall not rest until we have made a drawing-room of your shaft, and if you do not all finally go down to your doom in patent-leather shoes, then you shall not go at all.
Ok, thanks! I just finished that book, and all I can say is, the world could use another C64-a personal computer that's powerful and cheap at the same time. There's nothing like that out there today, as far as I know. All the PC's are either high-end or low-end, and if you get a low end, you can't play a lot of the great PC games that are out.
I have my own thoughts on Jack Tramiel, but "Computers for the masses, not the classes", is something we need, IMO.
"Farewell to false pretension
Farewell to hollow words
Farewell to fake affection
Farewell, tomorrow burns"
dave4shmups wrote:Ok, thanks! I just finished that book, and all I can say is, the world could use another C64-a personal computer that's powerful and cheap at the same time.
This is the netbook and it's why Intel and Asus are doing smashingly right now. Also, a good dual core system is much cheaper in today's dollars than the C64 was back then.
dave4shmups wrote:Ok, thanks! I just finished that book, and all I can say is, the world could use another C64-a personal computer that's powerful and cheap at the same time.
This is the netbook and it's why Intel and Asus are doing smashingly right now. Also, a good dual core system is much cheaper in today's dollars than the C64 was back then.
Coolness, I should go over to Microcenter and look at some netbooks!
So, who really invented the personal computer? The author of that book on Commodore says it was them, with the PET, and mentions what he calls Apple "revisionists" influence on history, even in the film "Pirates of Silicon Valley". On the other hand, Woz and co. claim it was Apple.
"Farewell to false pretension
Farewell to hollow words
Farewell to fake affection
Farewell, tomorrow burns"
Both the PET and the Apple II (the second iteration of Apple hardware mind) were logical next steps in the evolution of already-existant computers for individuals, like the S-100 bus based computers (the most well-known is the Altair 8800). Package all that stuff together and sell it more cheaply and in a reliable package that doesn't need to be assembled from a kit, and people will want it. Clearly, lots of people saw the same situation and made advances in tandem (although I suppose you can say the same of the independent inventions made in radio and television).
it290 wrote:Stan - correct, and yes they are progressive in the 240p sense, just like an SNES or Genesis, etc. Normally when people say 'progressive scan' they mean 480p, so that's why I answered in the negative. The 640x200 mode is also not interlaced.
Dave - earlier Amiga models are not able to switch between NTSC/PAL modes, so they are locked to whatever video mode their region is. As I said before, software will still generally run, but often not correctly. This means that the A1000, A500, and A2000 stock can not switch between NTSC/PAL. When upgraded with the Fat Agnus chip, however, they can. Avoid the A1000, though, since it's barely expandable and pretty much useless in general (nice collection piece though).
As for the C64, it uses the same video modes in NTSC/PAL, but there are timing differences (NTSC is faster). The majority of C64 software will run on either one, but will be faster on the NTSC machine unless the software compensates. That's why, if you've ever used a software SID player, there is an NTSC/PAL switch - because users are accustomed to music playing at 'their' speed.
Thanks! What kind of setup would I need if I wanted to play games like T-Zero?
"Farewell to false pretension
Farewell to hollow words
Farewell to fake affection
Farewell, tomorrow burns"
I'm not sure what the exact requirements are for that game, but you would need at least an AGA Amiga (A1200/A4000) and possibly an accelerator card of some kind (maybe not - couldn't find much info about the game online).
We here shall not rest until we have made a drawing-room of your shaft, and if you do not all finally go down to your doom in patent-leather shoes, then you shall not go at all.
OK, what about the C64? I know that you can hook it up to a TV, but does it use RF or AV cables? And how many disk drives would you need for it? Finally, do most of the games run fine with the included 64K of memory? I think there was an expansion cartridge.
"Farewell to false pretension
Farewell to hollow words
Farewell to fake affection
Farewell, tomorrow burns"
The C64 can use RF or composite video. You can also hook it up via SVideo pretty easily; actually, the original Commodore monitors hooked up with Luma/Chroma IIRC.
One disk drive is fine, although two can be handy for copying disks and things like that. There are some options for using SD cards and the like if you want to get fancy. I can't think of any games that will use multiple drives simultaneously, and multi-disk games are pretty much limited to some of the RPGs and adventures (that you probably don't want to play anyway).
Pretty much everything will run on a stock C64. Most of the pieces of crazy expansion hardware are basically hobbyist devices, with no or very little commercial software designed to use them. If you can get your hands on a fast load cartridge, though, that will help your loading times quite a bit. Many C64 games load for long enough to make and possibly eat a sandwich in the meantime.
We here shall not rest until we have made a drawing-room of your shaft, and if you do not all finally go down to your doom in patent-leather shoes, then you shall not go at all.
it290 wrote:The C64 can use RF or composite video. You can also hook it up via SVideo pretty easily; actually, the original Commodore monitors hooked up with Luma/Chroma IIRC.
One disk drive is fine, although two can be handy for copying disks and things like that. There are some options for using SD cards and the like if you want to get fancy. I can't think of any games that will use multiple drives simultaneously, and multi-disk games are pretty much limited to some of the RPGs and adventures (that you probably don't want to play anyway).
Pretty much everything will run on a stock C64. Most of the pieces of crazy expansion hardware are basically hobbyist devices, with no or very little commercial software designed to use them. If you can get your hands on a fast load cartridge, though, that will help your loading times quite a bit. Many C64 games load for long enough to make and possibly eat a sandwich in the meantime.
Cool, thanks man!
Back to Commodore vs. Apple-the folks who worked for Commodore claim that the PET was the first personal computer, and not the Apple.
I mean, it's either one or the other-either Apple is wrong and full of "revisionists" (as the author of "On The Edge" claims) or Commodore was first.
"Farewell to false pretension
Farewell to hollow words
Farewell to fake affection
Farewell, tomorrow burns"
Turrican was great and still is! The Amiga was such a wonderful machine compared to the competition of its time. I must have had more than 100 games and sold them all, long long time ago (stupid me!). What about Amiga VS Atari-ST?
Animaitor wrote:Turrican was great and still is! The Amiga was such a wonderful machine compared to the competition of its time. I must have had more than 100 games and sold them all, long long time ago (stupid me!). What about Amiga VS Atari-ST?
I brought up the ST on this site before and everyone said the Amiga was better for gaming. The ST may have more NTSC software.
Jack Tramiel wanted something to compete against the Amiga after he left Commodore. The ST was it, and for a while, due to Commodore's poor management, it did. It was popular in Europe, too.
"Farewell to false pretension
Farewell to hollow words
Farewell to fake affection
Farewell, tomorrow burns"
Interesting dave4shmups! For what I can remember, the reviews that were published at the time almost always gave the Amiga a higher score compared to the Atari-ST... until the PC came along.
I still play some games on the emulator I have on a modded Xbox though!
it290 wrote:It can also do 640x200 NTSC or 640x256 in 16 Colors (Hi Res mode). Then there are the Hi Res Laced modes which are 640x480 (interlaced NTSC) and 640x512 (interlaced PAL)
And all this is ignoring overscan, too. With full overscan, a PAL A600 does 768x576, interlaced (768x480 for NTSC). Of course, your monitor/TV might not be able to display all that on screen...
Plus Workbench-compatible software (which ISN'T most games, sadly) could use hi-res modes. ECS and AGA supported 1448x566 (AKA PAL SuperHiRes Interlaced) - crazy resolution.
And no conversation about the Amiga would be complete without a mention of a) Speedball II and b) Super Stardust AGA.
Shame the Amiga was so mis-managed during it's heyday. Great machine. Good to hear praise for the A3000 here, too - if they'd released a version with AGA it would have well outstripped the (comparatively cheaply produced) A4000 in all departments.
"TO THE untrained eye Christian Cooper might have been stamping out a small fire " - The Times, 7th Feb, 2004
For me, there was just something the audio capabilities of the Amiga that's yet to age to this day. Like the C64 the best music from the Amiga era seems utterly timeless and still sounds relevant today. Turrican 2, Apidya, Jaguar (Thrash Pig!), Lemmings, Shadow of the Beast... man, those were the days.
Agreed. I actually just all my computers into a different room (my studio), and hooked up my Amiga next to my main work machines. I fired up the Jesus on E's demo, and while not exactly timeless, it still sounds amazing. I'm not ashamed to admit I was dancing around like a madman to some 1991-era rave sounds.
We here shall not rest until we have made a drawing-room of your shaft, and if you do not all finally go down to your doom in patent-leather shoes, then you shall not go at all.
it290 wrote:The C64 can use RF or composite video. You can also hook it up via SVideo pretty easily; actually, the original Commodore monitors hooked up with Luma/Chroma IIRC.
One disk drive is fine, although two can be handy for copying disks and things like that. There are some options for using SD cards and the like if you want to get fancy. I can't think of any games that will use multiple drives simultaneously, and multi-disk games are pretty much limited to some of the RPGs and adventures (that you probably don't want to play anyway).
Pretty much everything will run on a stock C64. Most of the pieces of crazy expansion hardware are basically hobbyist devices, with no or very little commercial software designed to use them. If you can get your hands on a fast load cartridge, though, that will help your loading times quite a bit. Many C64 games load for long enough to make and possibly eat a sandwich in the meantime.
On my original Commodore 1080 RGB monitor, it does have the Chroma/Luma inputs (an early precursor to what is known as S-Video or Super Video output nowdays). The really interesting thing about my 1080 monitor is that it says that it was manufactured in Japan with a January 1986 build date. I didn't know that Commodore outsourced it's product line-up manufacturing to Japan back in the day -- very high quality handiwork/craftmanship indeed. Some of the later built 1080 type of monitors like the 1084S and it's variant of the 1084-DS, were manufactured in South Korea. Built like a tank and still works like a charm with no screen burn-in issues whatsoever. ^_~
