Autofire in older shmups

Twiddle · Post by **Twiddle** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:08 pm

croikle wrote:
Twiddle wrote:imo if one hand isn't clasped around your dick while trying to control your ship and fire at the same time with your other hand you're fucking cheating
New high score challenge table coming up...

What game, though?

Death Smiles dual stick play
[ Goto page: 1 ... 10, 11, 12 ]

Udderdude · Post by **Udderdude** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:15 pm

Twiddle wrote:
croikle wrote:
Twiddle wrote:imo if one hand isn't clasped around your dick while trying to control your ship and fire at the same time with your other hand you're fucking cheating
New high score challenge table coming up...

What game, though?
Death Smiles dual stick play
[ Goto page: 1 ... 10, 11, 12 ]

why we can't have nice things, etc.

DEL · Post by **DEL** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 8:35 am

Sonic R wrote;

The highest level shooting players in Japan use it. So are they score tainted?

Yup, that's the point I was making. They have absolutely no compunction about using autofire, tricks, inside knowledge. As long as its set on default they will use any means necessary.
You can handicap yourself if you like...
But they won't.

(& Yes Sonatine is a good Yakuza film

).

Ed Oscuro · Post by **Ed Oscuro** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 1:33 pm

lgb wrote:Autofire is cheating, infinite combos are not.

Caravan Games thread page 10:

lgb wrote:Use autofire. Helps a lot.

And that's why I haven't added a score in caravan games for a while. I was playin' home run derby and lgb was playin tee-ball

I like a level playing field, but not destroying my hands has to come first.

Death to game designs that go "lol u press the button a lot." This includes the otherwise excellent Toaplan games

emphatic · Post by **emphatic** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 1:43 pm

Some games just are way too physically challenging without autofire. Twin Hawk (arcade) comes to mind. Try playing that for more than 10 minutes without have a cramp fit in your arm.

Perhaps a new thread called "Arcade games that don't benefit from autofire" instead? Air Gallet + autofire = fail, Out Zone + autofire = fail. Keep 'em coming, you know you want to...

Ed Oscuro · Post by **Ed Oscuro** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 1:45 pm

emphatic wrote:Out Zone + autofire = fail.

rofl what are you talking about

sure you can't use super burner, just disable AF for that or avoid SB altogether

beer monkey · Post by **beer monkey** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 1:47 pm

Ghegs wrote:Hudson released an autofire-capable controller in the Famicom days and the television ad for it focused on how you don't have to keep tapping in Star Soldier anymore.

Tomato did the same thing for Star Prince!

PC Engine / Turbografx games should have been developed/balanced assuming autofire, since it is a standard feature.

emphatic · Post by **emphatic** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 1:50 pm

Ed Oscuro wrote:avoid SB altogether

= fail.

Ed Oscuro · Post by **Ed Oscuro** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 3:03 pm

SB has a slow turning radius, short range, and keeping it prevents you from picking up change bonuses for points. On top of that it doesn't do enough damage to warrant replacing the regular shot on autofire. THAT is fail.

Ganelon · Post by **Ganelon** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 3:46 pm

emphatic wrote: Perhaps a new thread called "Arcade games that don't benefit from autofire" instead? Air Gallet + autofire = fail, Out Zone + autofire = fail. Keep 'em coming, you know you want to...

Well, pretty much any game with shot-based rank (Battle Garegga, Soukyugurentai) or a far more effective charge weapon (Thunder Force V-VI).

MathU · Post by **MathU** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 4:11 pm

Sonic R wrote:The highest level shooting players in Japan use it. So are they score tainted?

I wouldn't say "tainted" exactly, but I would never compare a non-autofire score with an autofire score.

antron · Post by **antron** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 4:20 pm

Ganelon wrote:
emphatic wrote: Perhaps a new thread called "Arcade games that don't benefit from autofire" instead? Air Gallet + autofire = fail, Out Zone + autofire = fail. Keep 'em coming, you know you want to...
Well, pretty much any game with shot-based rank (Battle Garegga, Soukyugurentai) or a far more effective charge weapon (Thunder Force V-VI).

but you can add an autofire button and keep the original, like many console ports do.

Ed Oscuro · Post by **Ed Oscuro** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 4:27 pm

this man is a hero for not using autofire

...

Aquas · Post by **Aquas** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 4:27 pm

I can appreciate having to tap buttons quickly... in games like Flying Shark and Plus Alpha... you can have a steady rate of fire from your finger, but when you want to take out the hardier enemies, you gotta test your speed tapping skills. Some games that don't give autofire off the bat make things a little too difficult without it, at times, but others seem to keep the no-autofire mantra in mind. That classic gameplay is pretty cool

Then there's mushi where you tap as fast as possible for C fire skyrocketing

I've thought about using rapidfire as being unfair, but I think you have to gauge the difficulty at the same time. Gradius games for example, they are kind of wild to play without autofire, but on the other hand, if you're not using autofire, the lazer powerup should be preferred because it allows you to hold down the button for continuous shot. I guess that mindset was in Japanese players on cabinets without autofire... I'm not sure how widespread autofire circuits were / are. That being said, of course I play Gradius games with autofire, but having missle and shot on seperate buttons is essential for high level play

toaplan_shmupfan · Post by **toaplan_shmupfan** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 8:03 pm

emphatic wrote:
Ed Oscuro wrote:avoid SB altogether
= fail.

I always avoided the Super Burner, since I never did see the value in using it since it had a shorter range than the regular one-way shot.

Super Ball on the other hand, get that and easily win the game unless one is hit by an enemy shot or falls off the edge. (Press and hold the button, it acts as a spinning shield hitting any enemies that the ball hits. Press and release the button about once every half second, it becomes the most powerful shot in the game and even takes out bosses very quickly.)

Twiddle · Post by **Twiddle** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 8:42 pm

super ball is a bit hard to aim though

lgb · Post by **lgb** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 7:40 pm

Ed Oscuro wrote:
lgb wrote:Autofire is cheating, infinite combos are not.
Caravan Games thread page 10:
lgb wrote:Use autofire. Helps a lot.

Yes, now put two and two together.

Twiddle · Post by **Twiddle** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 7:58 pm

lgb wrote:
Ed Oscuro wrote:
lgb wrote:Autofire is cheating, infinite combos are not.
Caravan Games thread page 10:
lgb wrote:Use autofire. Helps a lot.
Yes, now put two and two together.

so you're saying "cheating is okay"?

scrub

lgb · Post by **lgb** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 8:04 pm

When I said "autofire is cheating, infinite combos are not", I meant in the same context that emulating a hard to find game from the 80s is illegal. I hope that's understandable.

Twiddle · Post by **Twiddle** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 8:06 pm

lgb wrote:When I said "autofire is cheating, infinite combos are not", I meant in the same context that emulating a hard to find game from the 80s is illegal. I hope that's understandable.

these have to do with each other how?

Ed Oscuro · Post by **Ed Oscuro** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 10:57 pm

Twiddle wrote:super ball is a bit hard to aim though

Super ball isn't fucked up by autofire though!

LGB: I really don't mind having to use AF with the caravan games (so long as it's the hardware rate), but at the time it was discouraging because I found my life was a lie up to that point.

But more on topic, I concur with my esteemed colleague Twiddle in saying I don't know what the fuck you're talking about right now. Explain please.

8 1/2 · Post by **8 1/2** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 11:01 pm

Having had surgery on both my hands last year I don't even mess around with games that don't have autofire unless I'm in an arcade and have no choice. It's just not worth it to wreck your hands like that. I want to keep shmupping for a long time to come, and mashing the fire button is a quick way to an early gamer retirement.

Zeether · Post by **Zeether** » Fri Apr 10, 2009 3:22 pm

Ed Oscuro wrote:this man is an hero for not using autofire

...

Fixed.

lgb · Post by **lgb** » Fri Apr 10, 2009 7:07 pm

Explaining your comments and opinions is fruitless when still no one gets it, and when some go so far as to take it offensively. Remember that you can know everything there is to know in the world, but doing nothing with it equals nothing.

bkk · Post by **bkk** » Fri Apr 10, 2009 7:34 pm

lgb wrote:Autofire is ok if I feel like it.

Compressed that for you.

Ruldra · Post by **Ruldra** » Fri Apr 10, 2009 8:24 pm

My view of this matter can be exemplified by my recent run of Vimana. I played that game for a few days and couldn't get past the stage 3 boss without autofire, so I decided to turn it on just to see how it goes, and well, I looped the game 4 times

The game went from mildly challenging to a complete joke. What's the point of playing the game in a way that it wasn't intended (they didn't expect me to kill enemies so fast)? What's the point of getting a gigantic score if the challenge was completely ruined?

Of course, tapping the button all the time is bad for you, so I feel a compromise is necessary. Using autofire delay is perfect to remove the need to mash buttons AND avoid making the game too easy.

PC Engine Fan X! · Post by **PC Engine Fan X!** » Fri Apr 10, 2009 9:16 pm

Take for example, Namco's System 12 powered JPN region Tenkomori Shooting or the USA region Tenkomori Variety Shooting PCB. For both players, it is played with a single 8-way digital joystick and a single fire button. If you were to use autofire on it, it would simply defeat the main purpose of the game which is press/mash the fire button like hell (since all 26 mini shmup games are timed based and that ratchets up the excitement/tension factor tenfold -- you either succeed or fail, there is no safe middle ground in this excellent & diverse collection of mini shmup games). If you posess mad-like rapid-fire button mashing skills, then Tenkomori would be right up your alley. May the fastest finger win. ^_~

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

Twiddle · Post by **Twiddle** » Fri Apr 10, 2009 9:41 pm

lgb wrote:Autofire is ok if I feel like it.

scrub

null1024 · Post by **null1024** » Fri Apr 10, 2009 11:32 pm

Personally, I don't care [since I shmup on a keyboard], unless I'm on real arcade controls [where the buttons tend to be a bit further spaced apart from each other than I'm used to [if there's more than 1 button]], where autofire is a godsend that should be used...

BrianC · Post by **BrianC** » Sat Apr 11, 2009 3:10 am

When I read "older shmups", I was thinking of games like Star Soldier or Star Force that give you autofire (or something similar) as a power up.

I usually prefer not to use autofire unless the game is designed around it.